Mondays with woodturner, Kurt Johansson

[Ken S]

Last night I awoke very early (around 2am, not uncommon for me). I enjoy watching the Tormek friends videos from time to time. I always learn something. It seems my brain can only absorb so much, and, at a later date, I can learn more. So it was last night.

I really enjoyed watching the video visiting woodturner Kurt Johansson. What a fine veteran craftsman with a good sense of humor. What first impressed me was his answer to how often he sharpened his turning tools. "Mondays". With good quality high speed tools, and expert sharpening technique, that is not surprising. During the February Hartville tool show, the Affinity Tool/ Tormek crew lent a gouge to a turning club, who used it all afternoon. At the end of the afternoon, they returned the gouge along with a piece they had turned. The turned piece needed no sanding. The Tormek edge was that good.

The video was a gentle reminder that I have a long way to go in my sharpening skills. I enjoyed watching the video three times today. Outstanding technique and good humor are a hard combination to beat.

I recommend fellow members click on the "tormek.com" on the right above the forum and then click on "friends". You will not be disappointed.

Ken

[Rob]

Speaking as a woodturner with a Tormek I would be inclined to take those marketing messages with something of a pinch of salt.  Not to completely pour cold water on them because the Tormek touch and turn idea is brilliant and it really works well.  I have no argument at all with how sharp it gets the edge, its the longevity of the edge that defies the laws of physics :-)

Any turner will tell you that there is no way on Gods green earth you can have a gouge remain sharp for an entire afternoons use unless the wood being used is incredibly soft. 

Bold headline statements like "required no sanding" are also I'm afraid somewhat rhetorical in nature.  A sharp edge will certainly produce a surface that may be equivalent to 120 to 240 grit if carefully sheer scraped with the gouge "reversed" but again, most turners would want to go a few grades higher than that before oiling, sealing or waxing ie finishing a piece.

I understand the business logic behind it but just for a minute stop and think about the forces being brought to bear on that freshly sharpened edge.  A piece of wood spinning at circa 2000 rpm is constantly bashing into this freshly sharpened edge.  Now compare that to the wear and tear on your kitchen knives???  Kitchen knives go blunt moderately quickly don't they and yet they're not subjected to any where near the kind of pounding any turning tool takes.  Of course its HSS and much thicker than a kitchen knife but when you hit a knot or a piece of bark or just the wood fibres repeatedly, it dulls the edge, believe me.

It's common practice in turning to do the donkey work (the shaping of the piece) with the tool and then resharpen just before you do the final finishing cuts.  This gives the optimal finish before sanding commences and may save you a grit or two if careful.  But we've debated this in out turning club (70 people some of whom are stunningly competent) and nobody really promotes the notion they can get a finish beyond about 240 grit straight off the tool.  The only exception would be on a spindle piece with a skew using a planing cut where you can get a near polished finish off the tool.

So, not to decry the Tormek at all, quite the contrary, when I bought the wood turners kit I was over the moon with its performance, quick too, touch n turn really does work and work well. But a whole afternoon's longevity for one edge??  Perhaps in planet marketing but not in the world where the laws of physics take precedent :-)

[Jan]

Rob, the eternal toil of wood turners to keep its tools sharp reminds me the famous quote: "Vanity of vanities, says the Preacher, vanity of vanities! All is vanity".

So neither the law of physics, nor the metaphysical Wisdom of Solomon could be defied.   

Jan

[Rob]

If only I knew what you were talking about I might agree with you Jan :-)

[Jan]

Sorry Rob, I overestimated my expressive abilities. 

My goal was to say, that as the laws of physics cannot be questioned, so the wood turners toil to keep its tools sharp, despite the fact that viewed form outside it can look like vanity and a striving after wind.

I'm still not sure that's understandable. 

Jan

[Ken S]

I have no doubt that Mr. Johansson, like many expert turners, sharpens on Mondays. That does not mean that, when needed, he might not sharpen on other days. In the video, he struck me as both a veteran turner, and a man who enjoys good humor.Even the most scientific of us must admit that his "Mondays" line makes good entertainment.

Fortunately for the forum, we had a forum member present for that conversation who also happens to be fluent in Swedish! Stig, did he say he sharpens on Mondays, or only on Mondays?

I have noticed that since I began using my ceramic steel on my kitchen knives on Mondays, they are noticeably sharper. Of course, I usually do the same thing everyday, but Monday is the key day.

Regardless of what days he sharpens, I found the video both informative and entertaining. 

Ken

[Rob]

Are there any other turners on the forum?  We're a bit thin on turners aren't we.

I wouldn't cast any aspersions on Kurt, he's clearly a delightful chap and agreed a tremendous sense of humour.  It was more the assertion of an afternoons turning with no sharpening and then a piece requiring no sanding that jangled with my experience.

As far as Kurt goes, I can sit here writing and assert with 100% certainty that he sharpens his gouges more than on a Monday without knowing him.  That was clearly humour. However, I kind of understand where he's coming from:  Turning tools can get a bit gnarled and out of true with touch ups and reserving one day a week as a baseline to re-true and set everything back to normal is a good habit to form.  Once that's done there are all manner of different techniques open to keep the edge fine for the finishing cuts.  In my arsenal that includes the Tormek, frequently freehand since you literally need two or three swipes.  I also keep a diamond credit card file in my smock pocket which is amazingly useful for micro touch ups, especially on skew chisels.

There are several pro turners in our club and the only pieces they will let out the door un-sanded are spindles destined for either stair cases/newel posts or finials etc for decorative pieces.  They know the painters will give them a final going over once on site so it saves them time and mess.  For bowls or any form of artistic piece, they would NEVER let them out the studio without sanding to a fine degree with 240 grit an absolute bare minimum.  Many go to 1200 grit or more with specialised abrasive pads like abranet/3M products etc.

Again, I don't mean to decry the bold statements made by distribution businesses where the agenda is to sell product, but we also need to keep the rhetoric contained by the actual truth, otherwise it simply has no credibility and it wont attract real turners to the party, they just know its not feasible.

Were I trying to attract turners to the Tormek universe I would heavily promote the speed with which one gets a gouge profile that remains perfect every time.  That coupled with the zero risk of drawing the temper of the steel are very valuable assets for a turner. Here's why:  When you're in the midst of a complex profile or one that has fine details like a tricky goblet with rings and thin stems etc, you're in the zone.  You're locked in a kind of mental focus which melds the artisan with the art, if you get that focus correct, YOU are the art so to speak because your mind is at one with the material via the tool, its a very disarming and wonderful feeling.  Completely lost in the creative process.  Now imagine you feel that tell tale rasping of the tool, the sound changes, it catches the wood a little more than usual, you know it needs sharpening or the next bead you cut will risk grain tear-out and the whole piece will be ruined.  The last thing you want is your hard earned concentration to be interrupted because it's like a muscle and once its warmed up, you don't want to stop.  But you have to because the work deserves it.  The somewhat clunky, mechanical interruption of sharpening equipment into this beautiful artistic "flow" state is unwelcome.  What you need is for the tool to be dealt with quickly, to keep the exact same profile and for the edge to be razor sharp.  The Tormek can guarantee that outcome due to the jigs and the water.  If you freehand on a bench grinder, you've got to be dam good to get the same exact profile on your gouge because its geometry is so complex.  The touch n turn strategy works really well in that scenario. I know I've done it hundreds of times.
Having that luxury is a real asset to turners that want to maintain their state of artistic flow.  I even have separate SVD 185 jigs with different setups dialled in for my different gouges (2 different profiles) to minimise the setup time to reduce the interrupt factor.

So in my view, what turners require is repeatability of grind, speed and risk free over heating.  That's what the Tormek delivers, I'm ever so sorry to be contrary, but what it doesn't deliver is an everlasting edge :-)  And that is true of any sharpening system, especially of turning tools because they're subjected to incredibly intense forces from the spinning wood at the very edge.

Lets set truthful and realistic expectations for potential turners who can genuinely benefit from the Tormek such that when and if they choose to use one, their expectations are either exceeded or at the very least met.  If we set expectations beyond that we're setting them up for a fall.  I recall my old ISO9001 quality guru saying quality =D/E where D= delivery and E= expectation.

[Ken S]

Rob,

I really like your posted Quality=Delivery/Expectation thought.

In evaluating the Tormek sharpened gouge, keep in mind that the incident was reported by a non turner who did not actually observe the turning (me). I did feel the turned piece after it was removed from the lathe. It felt very smooth to my untrained fingers. DCI Banks would not be impressed. In the enthusiasm of the moment, a calmer, more expert observer might have stated that required very little sanding. I will defer to your much more advanced turning experience.

Yes, we are a bit thin on turners on this forum. Anything you can do to add to the turner headcount would be appreciated.

Ken

[Rob]

DCI Banks :-)

[tahodgson]

Count me among the turners, Ken.  Making the transition from beginner to intermediate. 

Had hoped to upload a picture of a walnut yarn bowl I did for my wife (pre-Tormek).  If anyone can help me upload a picture, I'd be happy to share.

Am currently making a shallow bowl out of maple.  Love the way my gouges cut with a fresh grind and hone.  You should see the piles of loooong, curly shavings.  That tells me there's an edge on the gouge.

[Ken S]

Hurrah! Another turner. Rob will be delighted.

Tom, in my opinion the two most advanced Tormek jigs are the drill bit jig and the gouge jig. I think the drill bit jig is slightly more advanced (and considerably more expensive. you get what you pay or and pay for what you get). However, the gouge jig has the TTS-100 set up tool. I think this combination has been Tormek's finest hour. It is both very versatile and stone simple.

Why don't you send a PM private message to Rob. Rob can help you load your photo on the forum. I would help, but I am still in the not quite digital age.

Ken

[Rob]

Welcome Tahodgson. I am not alone :-)

Suggest you read through this thread as it explains all the pic posting and some :-)

http://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=1537.0

Enjoy. Lets see those spinny bits of wood.

[tahodgson]

Three pieces of black walnut, laminated with a sliver of ash.
First try...second one needs to be bigger to hold balls of thicker yarn.

[Ken S]

Tom,

Well done. Nice turning well photographed.  Keep up the good work!

Kem
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