a new angle setting tool

[Jan]

RichColvin, nice to read that the Han-Jig is cool for you. 

Besides functionality it has even some conservative design features.
The stainless steel base adds nobleness and longevity to the product.

Jan

[Tournevis]

Sheang sent me the double bearing model (I call it the "Han-Jig"), & I got it this weekend.   Used it to setup my Tormek to sharpen a number of knives.  This thing is the bee's knees.

I'm a big fan of using the TTS-100 to setup for sharpening my lathe tools, & the Han-Jig is really like using the TTS, but for knives.

Sheang did a great job :  This is something worth making for a compleat set of jigs !!

Rich,
I am happy to see that you are satisfied with the Jig. As it is unbreakable made, I hope that it will serve for next generation of sharpeners.
Do not hesitate to report any potential problem or possible improvement to share.
This is the best way for the community to progress.
Enjoy 

[Ken S]

hello Ken and Jan,
With your help and recommendations in this topic, I finally made 2 Stainless steel Kenjig.

Here is the first one based on double ball bearing.



Double ball bearing in situation :



What do we need for a "compleat" set of jigs? (For the benefit of our members who use English as a second language, "compleat

I'm a big fan

Sheang sent me the double bearing model (I call it the "Han-Jig"), & I got it this weekend.   Used it to setup my Tormek to sharpen a number of knives.  This thing is the bee's knees.

I'm a big fan of using the TTS-100 to setup for sharpening my lathe tools, & the Han-Jig is really like using the TTS, but for knives.

Sheang did a great job :  This is something worth making for a compleat set of jigs !!

[RichColvin]

Woodworking is a very old trade, and compleat is a very old adjective.  (Even though Tormek is a relatively new tool in these terms!)

In Britain, compleat is archaic, used in writing only as a bit of whimsy, and at that rather rarely. It is more common in North America, though often equally whimsical.

The Oxford English Dictionary (OED) says that compleat is just an archaic spelling of complete. It died out around the end of the eighteenth century. One of its last appearances was a reference to George III in the US Declaration of Independence: "He is at this time transporting large armies of foreign mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny". The OED also says that one sense of the word refers to a person who is accomplished, "especially in reference to a particular art or pursuit".

This sense died out in Britain in the early nineteenth century but was reintroduced in the archaic spelling at the beginning of the twentieth. For this we must blame Isaak Walton, the author of The Compleat Angler, or the Contemplative Man's Recreation; Being a Discourse of Fish and Fishing, not unworthy the perusal of most Anglers. Writing in 1653, he naturally used the older spelling of complete and modern editions retain it.

Because Isaak Walton's book title has remained so well-known, one unexpected result has been that the word in that spelling and in that old sense has been taken as a model in modern times. For example, when Messrs W and A Gilbey published a book on wine in 1953, they couldn't resist calling it The Compleat Imbiber. You may also find phrases like compleat actor, for someone who has all the skills and qualities of that craft. And the science-fiction writer Ben Bova wrote in his book Mars in 1992: "Jamie realized that his father had become the compleat academic: nothing really touched him anymore; he saw everything in the abstract". This usage, as I say, is more common in the US than in Britain.

So the short answer is that compleat and complete were originally different spellings of the same word, but under the influence of Isaak Walton's book title the older spelling has taken on a distinct meaning, especially in modern American English.

[Ken S]

OOPS!

I neglected to include the message in my last post.

Rich, you have certainly done the compleat definition of compleat and compleat.  In my anecdotal version, a compleat building maintenance man would carry enough tools to rewire the building on a ticket to change a light bulb. The complete worker would carry a couple spare bulbs.

For Tormek set up jigs, I think a workable complete set up would try to standardize the number of distance variations from the universal support to the grinding wheel to a minimum. Holes A and B on the TTS-100 will cover a lot of tools. As designed, they cover turning gouges. I use them as standards for chisels and planes. If I was a carver, I would try to use them for most carving tools.

I like the way some of us have incorporated the TTS-100's auto compensation for changing od grinding wheel diameter into homemade jigs. I especially like the Hanjig's incorporation of three distance holes in a stainless steel construction!

Family calls.......

Ken

[Ken S]

I had the rare opportunity of checking out the Han Jig this afternoon. (I believe it is the only sample in the western hemisphere!) Sheang, you did a really nice job both of the design and the machining. You did a good job of incorporating the compensating bearings with Jan's precision hole location and did it all in stainless steel.

As always, I acknowledge Dutchman's well done trig tables as the basis point.

See "a Tormek afternoon" to learn how I saw the Han Jig.

[WolfY]

The "Han-jig" or adjustment tool is nice. Although it would be interesting to see it in practice job.
The "only" problem, as I see, is the different protrusion of the knifes in the SVS-45 jig that will make the tip leaning on different parts of the stone creating different angles on the blade.
Or maybe I didn't understand the full way of using it 

I started to work on similar idea but with 2 parts connected in the centre and with knife length scale.
Anyone that can take this idea further is welcome. I just don't have time to complete this.

[Ken S]

WolfY,

The Han Jig works on the principle that most kitchen knives can be set to a protrusion of 139mm. To reach this condistency, paring knives are used in the regular knife jig mounted in the small blade tool. I mount my slicing knife in the older 100mm wide jig and the chef's knife in the 140 mm wide jig.

I measured the minimum and maximum protrusion for each jig with a knife attached. 139mm fell in the middle range for all three. With a common protrusion length, the distance from the universal support to the grinding wheel is consistent. With my simpler kenjig, I had no automatic diameter change correction like the TTS-100 has. The Han-Jig incorporates this automatic correction.

With this setup, someone working a farmers' market sharpening booth should in theory be able to set the distance between the universal support to the grinding wheel only one time (for kitchen knives only, possible only in theory). If that distance needed to be changed for pocket knives or scissors, using the Han Jig would reset it precisely and very quickly.

By using the three knife jigs essentially preset, most of the time even the knife jigs would not even have to be adjusted at all. Minor variations in knives could be covered by how much of the knife was held by the jig. The set up gage is a simple piece of plywood with a pencil line scribed 139mm from one end. The opposite end is held against the adjustable stop where the universal support would rest. The knife edge is set to the 139mm line.

Using this method, a sharpener should be able to rival the speed of a handheld sharpener with the crisp bevels of the Tormek jigs.

Questions? Please feel free to ask.

Ken

ps We must credit Dutchman and Jan as part of the design team.

[WolfY]

ps We must credit Dutchman and Jan as part of the design team.

Great minds creating great ideas. Thanks.

In order to find the "right"/ former angle I always use a marker. But there is no always a distinct angle to find so I use my experience. After so many knifes I know the approximate installation of the knives considering thickness, width, length, and angle needed/ asked.

Another tip is: I try to fasten the knife at the jig with same length from jig base to curved part of blade tip as the blade end from the jig base. Then I follow the knife curve when sharpening which gives me as close angle as possible trough the hole sharpening process, following an imaginary line on the stone. Little lifting of the tip is always required of course.

[Ken S]

WolfY,

The photos of the Han Jig unfortunately do not include the angle markings on the other side, 10, 15, and 20 degrees. I based the original kenjig on providing a fifteen degree bevel, a figure suggested by Stig as the European standard for kitchen knives. The calculations were based on the grinding angle booklet posted by Dutchman on the forum. Dutchman worked out the trig; all I did was make up a very simple tool applying it and standardizing the protrusion distance. The original idea was to provide an alternative to individual measurement for beginners and those of us whose eyes are no longer young.

Like you, I keep a black marker very nearby. The kenjig could have just as easily been calibrated using the marker or the Anglemaster. Using Dutchman's tables, it could also be calibrated to different bevel angles, protrusions or distances. Fifteen degrees was just a commonly used standard. In fact, I use a small square of 6mm plywood placed beneath the tool to convert to twenty degrees. I wanted to keep the tool simple both for beginners and busy sharpeners who have to sharpen many knives quickly. It works on the same principle of gage blocks used by machinists to provide very accurate and repeatable measurements.

The kenjig and Han Jig essentially eliminate the need to use the marker or Anglemaster most of the time. This is not only faster, it is more accurate, as no individual measurement error is introduced. No distinct angle on the knife is necessary.

This method, like yours, works better with proper and careful technique, such as consistency in placing the knife in the jig.

Ken

[Jan]

Ken, you are the prime mover of the project. 
You are correct, Han Jig incorporates an automatic diameter change correction like the TTS-100. It is Tormek's invention. 

I managed to pierce the veil of the secret**, designed and tested the modified knife setter prototype.

Tournevis (Sheang Han) manufactured a fully functional samples from massive stainless steel and inventively replaced the metallic discs with bearings. 

Rich Colvin is the first satisfied user who said that this thing is the bee's knees.

Jan

**P.S.:The Little Prince said:"... what is essential is invisible to the eye".

[WolfY]

Pls find hereby my knife angle master project. Had no time to work on it further. It has similar thinking but I also made it versatile for different angles and protrusion combinations.

Anyone who wants to continue this project is welcome.

[Ken S]

WolfY,

Please check your forum messages. (I sent you two,)

Ken

[Ken S]

Jan, if by chance I happen to be the prime mover in this project, I will share my secret. When I first   saw Dutchman's work, it seemed too complicated for my almost fifty years ago high school math. I believe most of the forum members who read it felt the same way. The difference was that I recognized the value of his work and quietly concentrated on dusting off my brain. It was an effort, but very much worth the time involved. Dutchman opened up a whole new set up technique for me.

In fact, understanding Dutchman's work is no more complicated than understanding futbol, football, or basketball. I think Rob may even understand cricket. He has the two qualifications to fo that: he is very smart and he is British. The difference is that we learn about sports as young children. Becoming more fluent with mathematics generally involves learning or relearning as an adult. It can be done and it is rewarding.

Ken

[Ken S]

Please scroll up to WolfY's reply (two back in this post). With some computer assistance from Grepper (thanks, Mark), WolfY's drawing is now posted. It looks interesting!

Ken