a new angle setting tool

[RichColvin]

In reading this post, I have one query to pose to the experts.  Could the TTS-100 be used with the Universal Support positioned on the hole labeled "A", then adjust the projection length on SVM-xx jig for the desired angle ?

If this is an option, then it seems to me that a simple jig could be built for the projection, allowing for setup of 10-20 degrees of angle.

[Ken S]

Yes, Rich, it can.

For a long time I have used the TTS-100 to set up my chisels and planes. I standardize on the B setting for chisels and plane blades with no camber, and the A setting when I add camber with plane blades.

I placed a blank piece of white label tape in one of the projection slots and marked the projection for different angles. To do this, set the universal support to grinding wheel distance with the TTS-100 using (for example) the A hole. Keep this as a fixed distance. Using either the anglemaster or black marker, determine the projection length for your desired angle. Mark that distance on your label tape. The process is quick and consistent.

If you wish, make up a simple wooden gage with a piece of plywood, a piece of wood under it to act as a stop on your bench, and a piece of wood on top to mark the projection length.

Ken

[Jan]

TTS-100 sets the edge angle correctly only for tools in the jigs SVD-185 and SVS-50.

The usage of the hole A of the TTS-100 for setting the universal support for knife sharpening is practically impossible.

The solution described by Ken, is for chisels in the square edge jig SE-76, but not for knifes. Setting of the edge angle in this way depends on the grindstone diameter.

In this thread I have described, how the TTS-100 can be redesigned for setting selected edge angles for knifes in the knife jig with some defined projection length (139 mm, kenjig). This setting is not dependent on the grindstone diameter. 

Jan

[Ken S]

My error. I confused SVM with SVD. (My Swedish abbreviation skill is not very good.)

Ken

[Tournevis]

You can download the DXF CAD file from the following address:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vmyzjqnked8fwkq/Knife_setter_1.dxf?dl=1

The original TTS-100 plate is 4 mm thick, but is extruded to 5 mm in places where the metal contact discs are inserted. Around the holes for the universal support the original plate is extruded to 16 mm.

My plastic plate was made of 8 mm thick polyethylene, but thicker plate or sandwich construction would be better.


The knife setter will work with both, T4 and T7. Its major advantage is, that it is practically not dependent on grinding stone/honing wheel diameter (in the range 160 to 250 mm).

The metal contact discs are listed as article 1250 in the TTS-100 parts breakdown list.
http://tormek.com/international/en/accessories/other-accessories/tts-100-turning-tool-setter/

Jan

Help Jan,
I got metallic in hand, they are original part from Tormek and I wonder what is he best way to integrate in the plate ?
They are made un one piece, turned aluminium disc, OD = 16 mm ID = 5 mm space length = 5 mm
Your help and comments are welcome.


My plate is made in stainless steel 3 mm thick.
I am scratching my head, how to drill and integrate those disc ?

[Jan]

Thanks for your confidence, I believe we will find a solution when you already put so much effort in making this setter. 

In the image below you can see, that the original metallic disc is squeezed in its hole in the plate.



The diameter of the axis of the metallic disc is 6.0 mm. The inlet opening to the  hole which bears the metallic disc is 5.7 mm. Thanks to the elastic properties of the TTS plate you can squeeze the disc in the hole and it will not fall out.

For the time being, I have two alternative solutions for you:

1)   Use the Tormek approach, but make the inlet opening 6.0 mm wide. Prepare two narrow steel strips, 1 mm thick, which will ensure that the metallic discs will not fall out of the plate and which will also define the axial clearance (1 mm + 3 mm + 1mm = 5mm).

2)   Make the plate from suitable 5 mm thick plastic and use the Tormek approach.

Jan

[Tournevis]

Thanks Jan for your thoughts.
My idea is to drill the axial hole at 6 mm and make the inlet opening at 5,8 mm.
Use the the property of metal expansion by heating the plate in an oven, fit the disc, and let the jig cool down naturally. Do you think that it can work ?
I need to find an algorithm or an table about metal expansion by heat treatment to be sure about the inlet opening dimension and estimate the temperature needed to be set-up.

[Jan]

The linear thermal expansion coefficient for stainless steel is in the range 10 to 17 x 10^-6 K^-1 at 20^oC.

I am afraid, that heating the plate to melting point temperature, will not be sufficient for the extension of the inlet opening by 0.2 mm, even when taking into account that the coefficient of expansion increases with temperature.

Jan

[Ken S]

I would try matching the Tormek hole and slot pattern and try pushing the wheels in. That worked for Tormek; it should work for Tormekers.

Ken

[Tournevis]

I am exploring another solution around ball bearing to substitute the metallic disc, it will simplify the mounting process on the plate.
Ken, my plate is in Stainless steel so, not really elastic as TTS's plastic plate.
Comments ?

[Ken S]

The wheels are a clever way to easily verify that both points are making contact with the grinding wheel. (Painting a single spoke on each wheel makes this even more obvious.)

Using stainless steel is certainly elegant, but is perhaps"overkill". The wheels could be replaced by plain "bumps" to make contact. The user would have to observe the contact points more closely, however it should work.

I planned to make my prototype out of baltic birch plywood, like my kenjig. I already have it in stock, it is easy to work, and, if it didn't work it would be easy to modify or replace.

Keep up your good work!

Ken

[Tournevis]

hello Ken and Jan,
With your help and recommendations in this topic, I finally made 2 Stainless steel Kenjig.

Here is the first one based on double ball bearing.



Double ball bearing in situation :


Here is the second one based on single ball bearing



Single ball bearing in situation :



Your comments are welcome, I'll try to improve if needed.
Best regards

[Jan]

Very cool! Great work, Tournevis. 

Congrats for overcoming the difficulties with the original metallic discs, your solution with the ball bearings is perfect. They are wider than the Tormek metallic discs and will help to stabilise your knife setter on the grindstone. This is especially important because your plate is not extruded around the holes for the universal support.

It is a great pleasure for me to see your cool implementation of my geometrical concept for a knife setter similar to TTS-100.  Moreover in the embodiment of such noble material as stainless steel. Simply brilliant.

Please compare your knife bevel angle setting with Tormek Angle Master and let me know if the angles are the same. The function of the knife setter should not depend on the wheel diameter, it should work flawlessly also for the honing wheel.   

Jan

P.S.: Perfect photo documentation also!

[Ken S]

Well done, Tournevis!!!

Ken

[Tournevis]

Very cool! Great work, Tournevis. 

Congrats for overcoming the difficulties with the original metallic discs, your solution with the ball bearings is perfect. They are wider than the Tormek metallic discs and will help to stabilise your knife setter on the grindstone. This is especially important because your plate is not extruded around the holes for the universal support.

It is a great pleasure for me to see your cool implementation of my geometrical concept for a knife setter similar to TTS-100.  Moreover in the embodiment of such noble material as stainless steel. Simply brilliant.

Please compare your knife bevel angle setting with Tormek Angle Master and let me know if the angles are the same. The function of the knife setter should not depend on the wheel diameter, it should work flawlessly also for the honing wheel.   

Jan

P.S.: Perfect photo documentation also!

The full story of composite and steel come from the fact that sandwich composite plate of 5 mm thick cannot meet the "high precision" needed for the tool. Tolerance for this material is more or less between 0,5 mm and 1 mm.
That's why I chose stainless steel. With the range of tolerance of 0,1mm, stainless steel is more appropriate.
Then the difficulty about original metallic disc fitting came up and by chance, I found the perfect dimension from a bearing catalogue. OD = 16mm ID = 5 mm and the cost is ridiculously low : 0,7 Euro piece.
Then I decided to give a try for this solution Knowing that in worst case, as my drilling for the screw is only 5 mm I still can enlarge the hole to 6mm to suit the metallic disc if needed.

During my trial I found out that the reading during adjustment is easier with the single bearing version. But perhaps it is an illusion. I'll confirm this feeling when I'll run a sharpening session for real.
For sure, as Ken stated, this solution (ball bearing and stainless steel) is an "Overkill" solution for a tool. But I am sure that is a multi generational life time solution. 
I take your point to compare some sharpening result with your tool and Tormek Angle Master. I am already pretty sure that Kenjanjig is much faster to set-up than Angle Master. 

Thanks for all.