My Bread Knife

[Rob]

Oh stop it....I love banana bread and I'm trying to lose weight!!!!

[Ken S]

Herman raised the possibility of using diamond paste with the leather honing wheel. This has interesting possibilities, and possibly pitfalls. DMT makes diamond paste in three grits, 1,3, and 6 micron. I have only tried the 1micron paste. It certainly leaves a nice polish, its intended purpose. It also seemed to cut quickly for such a fine abrasive. Used with a dowel, or as intended, with a piece of MDF or hardwood, it works very well. I don't know how it would work with the leather honing wheel, or how long either the paste of the wheel itself would last used this way. If, by chance, it worked extremely well for a very short period of time and destroyed the leather honing wheel, it would not be cost efficient.

I have never thought of the Tormek as my only piece of sharpening equipment. I still have my oil and water stones, although they are hardly ever used since purchasing the Tormek. My dry grinder is still available, but almost never used. My files continue to get regular use for many tasks. I have a set of diamond hones which are quick and convenient for small jobs. After experiencing such success with my simple dowel and diamond paste with my bread knife, I can't imagine trying to sharpen it with the Tormek. This simple method allows the knife to retain its full thickness.

I believe the Tormek is most effective as part of a team. It relieves my hands of the strain of bench stones during everyday operations. In itself, that is a good reason for me to own a Tormek. If I choose to "sub contract" parts of the operation to other tools, that does not negate the value of the main tool.

I believe this topic has produced some valuable information for knife sharpeners. Scalloped break knives are a fact of life for sharpeners. We have suggested three practical solutions: Two low tech and low cost possibilities, adhesive micro abrasive paper. This is the lowest cost option. I believe that the second solution, diamond paste, is a better choice for those of us with low sharpening volumes. Rob's diamond file is certainly the superior choice for anyone with much filing to do. In fact, if I were starting from scratch, I would purchase a diamond file like Rob's at the start. The cost is higher, but the whole process is fully operational.

I believe this topic also illustrates the value of the forum process. Several ideas developing into stronger, more useful ideas. Thanks, Herman, for starting a good topic. I hope we will continue exploring it; there is much fertile ground to be found.

Ken

[Elden]

   Having a Buck and a DMT  tapered diamond hones, I can say they work well. One problem with the taper design is that it is easy to push the hone too far "through", consequently wearing the points off excessively. Careful consideration of this fact needs to be observed. The suggestion of a mark on the hone to show the limit of hone travel mentioned by someone in another post, would be an excellent idea.

[Herman Trivilino]

Elden, this tool, which I talked about earlier in this thread, seems to solve this problem with the taper:

http://www.amazon.com/Columbia-River-Knife-Tool-VEFF1/dp/B0030IX772/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1429118663&sr=8-6&keywords=diamond+tapered+sharpening+rod

Ken, after reading your post I think I will invest in this tool. It will make a good addition to my sharpening station. With my Prime membership I get it for less than $31 US, with free shipping.

Here is the manufacturer's full product description:

This system includes an anodized knurled aluminum handle and two threaded 600-grit diamond-coated sharpening rods. The smaller rod has three 2-Inch straight sections in sizes 3/32-Inch, 3/16-Inch, and 1/4-Inch. The larger rod has three straight sections in sizes 11/32-Inch, 1/2-Inch and 5/8-Inch. The larger rod also has a 6-Inch flat side. The handle and rods fit neatly in a nylon storage pouch. The Veff Sharp is effective on most serrations and does not create egg-shaped serrations as tapered sharpeners do. It works equally well on gut hook knives and seat belt cutters. It is a versatile and indispensable tool that belongs in every workshop, tool box, tackle box and hunter's pack. It allows the user to keep a keen edge on all types of cutting tools including serrated and plain edge knives, wood chisels, wood carving and lathe tools, router bits, punches, scissors and saw chain. Proper use and care will ensure a lifetime of effective use. Light to moderate pressure is all that is needed for the diamonds to do their job. On most tools to be sharpened, simply blacken the cutting edge with a black ink marking pen. Then, following the original angle of the cutting edge, make a couple of strokes with the appropriate size of the rod across the edge. If you have the correct angle, the ink will be removed evenly. Once you have sharpened the first side of the edge correctly, you will have a burr on the back or flat side of the blade edge. Remove this burr by using the flat side of the sharpener and place it almost flat on the burr side of the edge. Use light pressure and draw the sharpener across the burr until it is removed. This will leave you with a keen cutting edge.

[Elden]

Sounds like a good tool, Herman. This and Ken' s approach sound like good ideas.

[Herman Trivilino]

Oh stop it....I love banana bread and I'm trying to lose weight!!!!

And you're slathering butter on your bread!?

[Rob]

Now you're just teasing :-)

[Herman Trivilino]

Elden, this tool, which I talked about earlier in this thread, seems to solve this problem with the taper:

http://www.amazon.com/Columbia-River-Knife-Tool-VEFF1/dp/B0030IX772/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1429118663&sr=8-6&keywords=diamond+tapered+sharpening+rod

I ordered this tool and it arrived yesterday. I immediately used it to sharpen one of the knives in our set of cheap steak knives. It did an excellent job on the gullets of the serrations. I used the Tormek on the other side because it has a bevel. Then I finished off with the Tormek honing wheel, using the edge to reach into the gullets.

The only problem is that the diamonds on the new tool immediately wore off on the region where I was using it the most. I guess this tool is to be used only for touch ups. Not for grinding a new edge on a dull knife.

[Herman Trivilino]

Last night, after sharpening that steak knife, I was thinking about what I could do to sharpen other serrated knives, like steak knives, bread knives, and lots of others. After reading about Ken's experience with the wooden dowel and diamond paste, I ordered some of the paste. I figured I could use it as my diamond honing tool loses its abrasive coating.

Then just as I was heading beddie-bye I got an idea. The inspiration comes from Ken's wooden dowel. Today I set up my router table and cut a piece of ¼ inch plywood in the shape of a circle of about the same diameter as the Tormek honing wheel. I rounded over the edges on both sides, removed the honing wheel, and mounted this in its place.



I was now ready to try it out, but was thinking I'd have to wait for my order of the diamond paste to arrive. Then I remembered I had some valve grinding compound up in the attic. I bought it in the 1980's for an old Chevy truck valve job that never got done because the head was cracked. I've carried that stuff with me for three decades on several moves into two different states. Now was my chance to use it. I grabbed another one of those cheap steak knives and had at it. It worked beautifully!

I applied some of the compound to the wooden wheel with a paper towel. I also applied some to the knife. I ground away, then used the grindstone on the flat side, and finished up with the leather honing wheel and Tormek compound. Nice results.

I used to live in fear of knives with serrations. After having a pro fail at the job I got inspired to do something about it. I now look forward to someone asking me to sharpen their serrated knife.

[Ken S]

Bravo, Herman!

I believe we are seeing this forum working the way things are supposed to work, with ideas improved by combined thinking.

As an aside, you posted the question about using diamond paste with the leather wheel. I wonder how a wheel fabricated out of MDF would work. MDF is available in sizes to at least one inch thick. The MDF might make a better bedding surface for the diamonds than leather.

Good use for your vintage grinding compound. The 1940s Popular Mechanics Home Workshop Club would be proud!

Ken

[Herman Trivilino]

I wonder how a wheel fabricated out of MDF would work. MDF is available in sizes to at least one inch thick. The MDF might make a better bedding surface for the diamonds than leather.

Ahh... Good idea. I've got some ¾ inch MDF that I can use. The threaded mounting shaft protrudes only about 5/16 inch. I'm barely able to attach my 1/4 inch wide piece of plywood (1/4 inch is the nominal thickness, the actual thickness is a bit less).

A large counter bore will be needed to accommodate the large mounting nut, leaving the MDF very thin and therefore easily breakable. I think the solution will be to laminate a piece of 1/4 inch plywood to a 3/4 inch MDF donut.

I'll have to see what I can come up with.

[Ken S]

Herman, don't forget that you can mount your plywood/MDF wheel on the grinding wheel side. For the mounting hole, drill a smaller hole (1/8" or so and sneak up from 15/32 to 31/64" and you will be quite close. I used a 31/64" bit to ream out some 5/8" OD Schedule 80 plastic water pipe to fit a wheel with a 5/8" plastic collar to the Tormek's 12mm shaft.

Lowe's sells 12mm fender washers which work well as spacers to fill a gap between your home made wheel and the 50mm side.

If you use the grinding wheel side, be sure you have the wheel turning away from the tool rather than in to it.

I see Lowe's (and probably other places) sell MDF in 2' x 4' size. The small size will probably be a lifetime supply for tormek research, and is much easier to haul!

Ken

[Herman Trivilino]

For the mounting hole, drill a smaller hole (1/8" or so and sneak up from 15/32 to 31/64" and you will be quite close.

15/32" is equivalent to 11.9 mm.
31/64" is equivalent to 12.3 mm.

The shaft diameter is 12 mm.

Anyway, I don't have drill bits that are those sizes. I drilled the hole in my sheet of plywood with a 1/2" bit, which is 12.7 mm.

Having cut the circular piece with a router table I was surprised when, after mounting and using a few times, it was out of round. I improvised a truing tool using a wood chisel and my old straight edge jig.

Lowe's sells 12mm fender washers which work well as spacers to fill a gap between your home made wheel and the 50mm side.

I may have to attach one of those to this wheel to keep it true when removing and replacing it.

Unfortunately I see no way of rigging up something that would allow me to leave both this wooden wheel and the leather honing wheel attached at the same time. Each would be in the other's way. One couldn't get away with using the Profiled Leather Honing Wheel or anything like it because the diameter is less than the diameter of the leather honing wheel and it would be in the way.

Attaching it to the grinding wheel side is an interesting option. Maybe I could rig up a bath of grinding compound to keep the wheel covered continuously. Then I could go into production sharpening serrated knives!

[Ken S]

I used a piece of 3 x 5 card stock when I tried using a dry wheel on the T4. It seemed to work acceptably adapting the twelve mm shaft with the half inch wheel. I do not believe things are as critical at low speed.

The plastic knob should make quick changes practical. It makes switching leather honing wheels quite quick, one for valve grinding compound, the other for the honing compound.

Clever"truing tool".

Ken

[Elden]

Brilliant idea Herman. By the way, that is a nice looking dirty machine that looks like it is being used!  I think the price for your wooden wheel is cheap enough you can afford it even if it does get out of round easily and requires frequent truing, consequently wearing it away quickly. It may be that the wheel slid beneath the locking nut because of the oversize abor hole.