New member with questions on the Tormek system

[jcmv4792]

Just found out about this product and it looks like it will take care of my sharpening needs. I just have a few questions before buying this system.

How are you exactly supposed to use it with water?(Do you pour it in somewhere, is it hooked up to a hose...etc). Is this system messy for use in the kitchen(will it get abraded metal and stone dust everywhere)? Lastly, do I need to recycle the water each use? Any input would be appreciated.


Thanks,

John

[Rob]

There is a bit of a fuss at the start but once its running its a piece of cake.

First you need to divert your local river so it runs past your workshop.  Then, using an Archimedean screw, you lift 10,000 gallons per hour onto the Tormek wheel while you work (from the river of course), not forgetting a pretty robust filter to stop those pesky Catfish from soiling your chisels.  There is sometimes a bit of a mess after you've sharpened, you know removing the unwanted several thousand gallons of waste water from your house/garage but, hey, you can't make an omelette without breaking eggs right?  Once you're done with the ensuing environmental toxicology sweep to deal with the contaminated land......its on to the next chisel...simples!

Or, you could just pour a bit of water in the provided water bath!

[jcmv4792]

you could just pour a bit of water in the provided water bath

Thanks for clearing that up. So once I'm done sharpening I just throw the water out of the water bath and that's it?(Sorry for the noob questions, but I haven't seen one in person so I'm a bit confused as to how it all works).

[Ken S]

John, welcome to the forum. 

Good question. I suggest you spend just a couple minutes hooking and unhooking the water trough from the side of the Tormek.  This quickly becomes second nature.  It is easier to learn when it is empty.

I keep a couple plastic juice containers filled with water next to my Tormek. They work quite well and they are free. Mine are 2 quart 1.89 liter jugs from the super market. They originally held apple juice.

Fill the water trough part way.  Turn on the motor.  The grinding wheel will absorb a little water like a sponge. Add a little more water until the moving surface of the grinding wheel has a glaze of water. You will probably need to add a little water from time to time to keep the grinding surface wet. This is actually more difficult to read than to do. After your first sharpening session with the Tormek you will have mastered the water situation.

There is a small amount of spillage.  My last sharpening session was two kitchen knives. I had to clean up about ten milliliters or half an ounce of water.  One paper towel made quick work of it.ll

The water trough has a built in magnet to capture the ground off steel. There is also some slurry in the water ground off the wheel. This is a normal part of sharpening, juat as with oil or water stones. I just dump it down the drain. The design of the Tormek is such that there is no grinding dust; it is all captured in the water trough. There are also no sparks or overheated tools.

I see no reason why you couldn't use a Tormek in a kitchen. I'm sure there are many in regular service in restaurants.
Wherever you use your Tormek, make sure the light is good.

It is good practice between sessions to dump the water and store the grinding wheel dry. If you use it throughout the day, cleaning at the end of the day is fine.  In the time that it takes you to read this post you can have your Tormek cleaned up and shipshape.
Please feel free to post further questions.
Look on the sharptoolsusa.com website.  Jeff Farris has posted several excellent training videos.

Ken

[jcmv4792]

Thanks for the reply Ken, that was very helpful. Seems simple enough on youtube, and this should be good for when I don't have hours to spend refining an edge on the kitchen knives.

[grepper]

It's stupidly simple.  Like Ken said, put the tray on/off a couple of times to get the hang of it.  Then put it on and dump water in here, up to the fill line:



You will be surprised at how much water the stone soaks up.  You will need to add more after a minute or two. 

When the machine is running, keep the water level fairly low to help avoid splattering.  You only need enough water to cover the bottom half inch (10mm-15mm) or so of the wheel, just enough to keep the wheel wet.  The stone is amazingly thirsty and will continue to soak up water for some time, and some water gets splashed out as you use it, so you will probably need to add a little more as you sharpen.

It will get messy around the machine, especially if the water level in the trough is higher than it needs to be.  Unlike a dry grinder there is ZERO DUST, but light gray sludgy water drips and splashes on and around the machine.  After a while the whole top of the machine and the area around it will get splattered with gray guck.   It's a good idea to put the thing in a tray.  Here's what I did:



The water trough has a magnet that metal particles from sharpening stick to, and the bottom of the trough gets covered in quite a bit of mud from stuff that comes off of the wheel.  DO NOT dump this goop down the drain.  It's heavy and sticky and will collect in the sink trap and settle along the bottom of horizontal pipes, and won't wash away with normal drain flow.  It's not toxic, just stone and steel dust mud.  You can dump this on your neighbor's lawn. 

It's not good to leave the stone sitting in water when the machine is not in use.  When you are done, empty the trough and clean out the slurry in the bottom.  If the glop dries in there it becomes a little cement like, the steel particles rust, and it becomes difficult to clean.

Another source of mess is the honing wheel.  Honing compound can spray off the wheel.  It's oily sticky stuff when first applied, and a bit dusty as you use it and it dries.  The whole operation is a little messy, so you don't want to plot the thing down and sharpen in the middle of your fine oriental carpet.

Like Ken said, it's more difficult to read this than to do it.

Happy sharpening!

[jeffs55]

No one has addressed applying honing compound to the stropping wheel yet and there is usually a problem for newbies with this. Do not oversaturate the wheel. Imagine the compound is toothpaste and you are going to brush your teeth with it. Using only that small amount, spread it over the entire wheel. Not part of the wheel, the whole wheel. Try that and if you need to add more, then add only a small smear. Not as much as you used originally, just an additional smear and only if you are not getting a shine on your sharpened edge. Strop with the wheel turning away from the edge. Do not allow the blade to dig into the wheel. When applying the original amount of oil to the wheel do so with only a drop at a time. The wheel should never be wet to the touch. Imagine an eye dropper and that is the amount to put on the wheel. I would say three drops placed 120 degrees apart would be a good start. If you need to add more, do so in between the initial application. All you want is the slightest coating on the leather. Your finger should really not even show oiliness when you touch the treated honing wheel. If you put to much oil on the wheel it is a mess that will take you forever to straighten out. Reapply honing compound as necessary to make your newly sharpened edge shine. You would not need to reapply oil for many weeks or even months depending on use. Enjoy!

[grepper]

Good point there Jeff.  That probably would have been the next question.  It always is...

And, the wonderful Tormek Honing Compound, according to its MSDS,  is oil, (light petroleum distillates), concentration (w%) < 30.  So, you are adding oil to the wheel every time you apply compound.  As I understand it, the initial application of oil is only to assist the compound in adhering to the wheel, so after the first application no additional oil is needed.

If you don't use it for a long time, the wheel can get dried out and compound does not stick too well at first.  I've found that lightly holding sandpaper to the wheel to rough the surface a very little is all that is needed.

The whole idea is just to have the abrasives in the compound stick to the wheel, like abrasive belts are coated with abrasive.  If too much oil is applied, the wheel gets a rubbery, slippery surface.  When this happens, the compound slides around on the surface rather than performing its abrasive mission. 

I think that you could get away with never using oil at all, and the only drawback would be that compound would not adhere quite as well at first and  eventually the oil in the compound would do the job.  But Tormek says to apply oil, so I did.  I found putting a little oil on a cloth and pressing it against the wheel as it is rotating works well to aid in even distribution of oil on the wheel surface. 

But like Jeff said, not very much!  Just barely enough to get the compound to stick.  After that the oil in the compound takes over.

[jcmv4792]

Ohh okay. I'll probably use it in the basement then. Wouldn't want to accidentally have metal/stone sludge get into the food.

Is the T-3 the same as T-7 but just a little smaller? Or are there any particular advantages to the T-7 excluding the extra size?

[grepper]

See towards the bottom of:
http://tormek.com/international/en/machine-models/

Note especially motor duty cycle, smaller stone, less powerful motor and that the T3 does not ship with Truing Tool TT-50, and the Stone Grader SP-650, both of which are absolutely necessary to have and you will have to purchase them separately.  The T3 also does not have a handle, which is pretty handy to have.

For me at least, it's easy to use it for more than 30 minutes.

I suppose that it depends on your needs, but if you can swing it, I'd go for the T7, smile a lot, and never look back.  The thing is built like a tank.

[Ken S]

Good points, Grepper and Jeff.

I would opt for the basement.  Just make sure you have good task lighting.

Two thoughts on the "gunk":
1)I have wondered (but have not tried) pouring the gunky water through a Melitta coffee filter.  The number six size (large) might work.  I have one. I haven't used it in years, but, the thrifty side of me thinks I might use it for coffee someday. I should just break down and try it. A paint filter would be another option to try.  They are heavy enough so that you could probably use it several times.
2) I have wondered how the gunk would work as a slurry on a flat piece of mdf or similar. It might work very well for polishing less than pristine chisel backs, a poor man's diamond paste.

The T3 vs T7 question is a perennial favorite on this forum. It is a very valid question and needs to be asked.  With the introduction of the much improved T4, I would rephrase the question to T4 vs T7.  The more rigid zinc top portion of the housing seems a notable design improvement. if I was buying a new smaller unit, I would definitely opt for the T4.

Personally, I think someone should lean toward the T4 IF space and/or weight is a real constraint.  The T4 is now marketed without even the SE-76 square edge (planes and chisels) jig.  Even the T3 came without the stone grader and diamond dresser.  Most of us could probably get by with the 50% duty motor. Even the smaller wheel is probably not much or a real world constraint.  (How many real world home shop dry grinders have wheels larger than eight inches?)  However, and it's a rbig however, when the T4 is minimally outfitted with the SE-76, stone grader and diamond dresser,all essential, the cost difference between it and the T7 is only about $180 US.  For a lifetime tool, that is not much difference is cost.

I have only used the T7.  That seems to be true among most of the forum as well.  My gut feeling would be to go with the T7. Nothing wrong with the T3 or T4, just (in my opinion) more right with the T7. Don't buy a smaller unit with the thought of eventually adding a second, larger unit.  If you reach the point where you want two Tormeks, you will want the grinding wheels and other parts to interchange.

Please don't hesitate to keep asking questions.

Ken

[SharpenADullWitt]

I tend to fill the tray from a Folgers coffee container.  I had a friend save me several (the restaurant) and use several of them for soaking small items in evaporust/vinegar etc.  I had a spare so it became my water mover.
I do agree with the honing compound being messy, especially when doing serrated knives. (edge of the wheel)  I think the water spilling over, is a lot less with the larger water tray, and if one uses a lazy susan (or Tormeks branded one) .  I will say getting used to how much water, and pouring too fast, caused most of my messes.
When done, I dump the water tray back into the coffee container, dry out the tray, dump the water outside and wipe out the coffee container.

[jcmv4792]

Grepper could you share the dimensions of the metal tray you have your tormek t-7 on?

Also would I need a very sturdy wooden bench table or would something like work?(generic fold-style utility table). I'm wondering if the motor of the machine would cause the work area to "shake" or wobble during use.

http://www.amazon.com/Office-Star-4-Foot-Resin-Multipurpose/dp/B0015TRJCM/ref=pd_sbs_lg_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=02AC38R8GTJGVVDQ5YYF

[grepper]

The tray is stainless, 25.75" x 18".  I got it at a local Gordon Food Service.  Fiberglass or plastic would work just as well.

The table it's pictured on is:
http://www.officemax.com/office-furniture/tables/folding-tables/product-prod3030760

The table works great.  From my experience those types of tables are amazingly stable.  I can push around on the top and it hardly moves.  The one I have has metal supports that run under the top so it does not warp.  It looks very similar to the one you linked to, just larger.  I suspect the one you are looking at is very similar, but it would be nice if you could see one set up. Most office supply places sell them.  Yours is reviewed well too.

The machine is very smooth and slow running.  I doubt motor torque would make a table shake.  Some side to side pressure is put on it as you sharpen, and I think that is more likely to make a wimpy table wobble than the motor is.

[SharpenADullWitt]

Most of those 1/4 or 1/2 sheet baking pans are aluminum.  The Tormek would be fine on a folding table, but not something as light as a tv tray/table.  I normally just use the dining table.