1/4" Bevel Edge Chisels

[Ken S]

Herman, the alignment problem is only part of the difficulties.  As I see it, the main problem is a lack of service beyond the emails answered by Sweden in twenty four hours.  For the record, I think the twenty four hour response to emails is an excellent and logical first line solution.

If I was going to purchase another Tormek, or was advising someone, I would assume that a new unit would most probably function as designed with no problems.  Beyond that, I would assume that either the twenty four hour hot line or the forum could straighten out the majority of the problems.

However,  I would also have assurances from the dealer that I could return the unit within a reasonable period, such as thirty days, for a full refund, including any shipping charges.  The shipping charges should include both ways.  In my opinion, if I am unable to get the unit to perform as advertised after putting in a reasonable amount of study, practice, and two or three emails to Sweden, the unit is defective.  I don't say this lightly.  The first thing I would work on would be operator error.  Nothing in the advertising states the unit requires extensive training.  If I was not sharpening well within two weeks, I would return the unit.

Assuming I liked the way the unit was supposed to work, I would order another one.

If the dealer would not give a reasonable thirty day return period with full reimbursement with full refund, including shipping both ways, I would find another dealer. I am fortunate to have good local dealers, although I have not had any bad experiences with either of the two online dealers I have also used. 

Incidentally, I would define part of fluency with a Tormek as being able to sharpen a set of four good quality, but not boutique, chisels (generally 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and 1") and a set of three good kitchen knives, typically 8" chef; 6" slicing; and a paring knife.  If one can repeatedly sharpen those items, I would say machine and operator are functioning normally.

Ken

[kennyk]

Just a further update.   My original machine has gone back to the UK distributor, and I'm told will be making its way back to Tormek HQ fairly soon.

Ultimately I'm hoping to find out the answer to if the machine does indeed have an alignment issue.

Meanwhile, the replacement machine is performing a lot better.    I spoke at length today with Stig and Martin (at UK Distributor Brimarc) in a conference call to discuss some of my concerns with the system as a result of the issues that I've had - in particular we discussed the play on the TT-50, and Stig wil be following up with that to set my mind at rest.   

I still have the odd problem with narrow chisels, which I think are a combination of a severe trapezeoid shape and the registration edge channel of the SE-76 as I'm finding that these narrow chisels do have a tendency to twist in the SE-76,  The upshot, as far as I'm concerned is that I find it easier to use the SVS-32 for narrow chisels and work at the front of the machine, although I'm still finding the trick of keeping the top of the bevel level on the USB a little difficult to master.     I'm sending one of our 1/4" chisels to Brimarc for them to have a play with as well, as we're all keen to come up with the answers. 

Personally I'm preferring working on the front of the machine, grinding horizontally but it does bring its own setbacks in that it requires manual setting of the chisel in the SE-76, but that's possibly down to having spent so much time using it in that mode.

Anyway, we're moving forward with things and  I'm a lot happier with the replacement machine performance.  I expect that the areas of doubt I still have are partly down to the idiosyncracies of the way that the Tormek system operates versus my previous methods of sharpening (Japanese Waterstones and 'Scary Sharp' with 3M lapping film)

[Rob]

Good to hear progress is being made and you're being supported Kenny.  We appreciate your reports too, nice to be informed :-)

[Ken S]

My last post was not beneficial.  I have edited it. Some things just require time to fully resolve.

Ken

[RobinW]

Is there any response from Tormek after examination of the returned machine (posted 12 September)?

Considering this was probably the longest running topic with plenty of input from a lot of forum members, it should not quietly disappear into oblivion.

[Herman Trivilino]

I would like to know if the problem was misalignment of the Universal Support mounts.

I would like to know if this is in any way related to the new T-4 design improvement in the way the Universal support mounts to the housing.

[kennyk]

I've been told that Tormek have examined my original machine and can apparently find no fault with it.

Yet as soon as I moved from that machine to a new machine, I was able to sharpen blades squarely.

I'm now in the position where I've no idea what was going on.  I simply won't accept any attempt to shift the blame to the blades, as they included in the blades that were skewed, a blade from a Clifton No 7 Jointer Plane, the cost of which is more than the cost of a T4.

I appreciate all the hard work by Stig and the UK distributor on this but the fact remains that no-one can explain why I had problems with the original machine.  Further, I was never completely satisfied with the straightness of the edge of any blade I sharpened with either T7 unit.  I could never find a way to prevent a curve.

It is with sadness therefore that I have to grudgingly admit defeat with the Tormek system and reluctlantly accept that it simply does not work for me, at least not to the tolerances I'm looking for.

I'm disappointed because the blades were sharp. but not square or straight.   
Having moved to a school without the Tormek I've had to revert to Oil or Diamond stones. Regrinding on the viceroy Sharpedge and then honing on the oilstone.   It takes a bit longer and the blades whilst still cutting hair, aren't quite as sharp, so I've no access to the Tormek system any more.  I may have been able to perfect the method, but to be perfectly honest, I did over 200 blades on it and that ought to have been enough.  If it's really that difficult then Torkmek need to look again at their training/teaching methods.  I've done nearly as many blades (around 160) by hand in less time than I spent troubleshooting the problems I had with the original T7 unit.

I understand that this won't be well received, and also may appear churlish in light of all the effort from Tormek, but I've reached the end of the road.   I'd hoped eventually to purchase a Tormek for my own workshop, but after the difficulties I've had, my options are now to stick with Scary Sharp or Japanese waterstones.  I miss the ease and speed of the T7 but it's not much good if it's not straight. 

[SharpenADullWitt]

Thanks for chiming back in and letting us know Kenny.

[Ken S]

Kenny, i'm sorry things didn't work out for you and the Tormek. You certainly put in a good effort.  Best wishes at your new school.  Maybe sometime in the future you may miss those very sharp edges and give things another try.

regards,

Ken

[Serge Casals]

Hi All,

I'm new to this forum. After about 12 years I unpacked my Tormek and decided to sharpen some tools and knives. I can't remember if I had this problem before as it's been so long since I last used it.

When trying to sharpen a chisel I find it doesn't sharpen with a straight edge. It sharpens very well but at an angle. Am I doing something wrong?

Many thanks,
Serge

[Herman Trivilino]

Use the truing tool to true up the grindstone. Yours will be the older version.

This is the only video I could find illustrating use of the older version. You likely don't have the advancing mechanism shown in the video, but it illustrates the idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x_VWruZVHA

[jeffs55]

I have two words for you, Robert Sorby.
I understand that this won't be well received, and also may appear churlish in light of all the effort from Tormek, but I've reached the end of the road.   I'd hoped eventually to purchase a Tormek for my own workshop, but after the difficulties I've had, my options are now to stick with Scary Sharp or Japanese waterstones.  I miss the ease and speed of the T7 but it's not much good if it's not straight. 
[/quote]

[Ken S]

Jeff, I don't think your last post was appropriate for this forum. As Herman so accurately stated, we are guests on this forum. Tormek AB foots the bill. We pay no subscription and must endure no inane advertisments. We would not be dinner guests and complain about the meal.

Sergio, nothing personal, however, I think the problem may be operator inexperience or error. If most of the forum can grind a square edge, I would think more thorough preparation and practice would be in order. Have you recently reread the handbook?

Regarding Robert Sorby, I recently attended one of their turning seminars. It was most informative. Sorby makes a diverse and innovative line of turning tools. Sorby also makes a well designed sharpening system, the Pro Edge. If I was younger and had a much more active shop, I would have one sitting next to my Tormek. I see them as complementary, and neither as a full substitute for the other.l

Those of you who have read my previous posts know that I have complaoned about the lack of good training material from Tormek. I still feel that way. However, I don't believe we can denegrate a well made and versatile sharpening system itself because of the lack of good training material.

Ken

[Ken S]

Sergio,
I apologize if I came down hard on you. I did not mean to. We have had numerous posts over the years complaining of unsquare edges. I had hoped to lessen these problems by posting the first post in this section about sharpening a three quarter inch chisel. My original intention was to keep the post short enough to be readily absorbable. It grew and was unfortunately was never edited. I don't care about receiving any credit for it; I just want to help fellow forum members get up to speed more easily.

I think a medium width chisel is probably the easiest tool to start with to learn the feel and operation of a Tormek. I have not found the Tormek to be an automatic machine. It is capable of a wide variety of work in skilled hands. The problem is a lack of training to make the hands skilled. The handbook is well written. Each time I reread my copy I learn more. However, the handbook only goes so far.

In spite of my frustrations with the lack of good training material, I have come to believe that if Jeff Farris can sharpen a chisel well and square, the machine is capable of such work. The problem must lie with operator inexperience. The "operator" category certainly includes me. I am not a natural with tools. Whatever small level skill I have acquired has not come easily.

We have seen too many postings of the same problems on this forum. That is certainly not a criticism of the posters. Please continue posting. My criticism is with the level of readily available training and guidance. I don't care how the level of Tormek training compares with other tool companies. Better or worse, it still is not adequate as seen by the number of problems posted.

This seems most unfortunate to me. The drill bit jig comes to mind. With proper knowledge of drill bits and good skill with the jig, the Tormek is capable of sharpening drill bits with great sophistication and specialization. This level of proficiency is far beyond the needs of the average home workshop.  However, for someone who needs specialty drill bits, the Tormek is a very versatile tool.

In general, I believe that, within its scope, the Tormek is capable of much more than the average user is presently capable of achieving without more experience or training. In our age of youtube training and Internet sources, it seems unfortunate to me that we are so hampered.

Hang in there, Sergio. With perseverance square edges and skill will follow. Keep posting.

Ken

[Herman Trivilino]

I still have difficulty getting a square edge on my chisels and plane irons. I suppose with a greater effort I could do better, but why? They don't need to be perfectly square to work perfectly well.

You can get them as square as you like, but the grindstone must be true.