Uses for BGM-100

[AussieChippy]

Hi All,
i was looking into getting a Bench grinder mount BGM-100 to deal with some of the slowness of rapid steel removal.
the instructions describe that you can use this with Gouge Jig SVD-185, Multi Jig SVS-50 and Tool Rest SVD-110.
is there any reason you could not use BGM-100 with
SE-76
SVH-320
or even DBS-22 (not that speed of material cut is an issue with this brilliant Jig)

Also if you were able to use these jigs (SE-76, SVH-320) would you need to use TTS-100 for setting the angles for changing between bench grinder and Tormek water cooled?
or would Angle master WM-200 be fine depending on grind stone size i guess

Thanks

[Herman Trivilino]

I don't know if anyone here owns one of those and has experience with it.

The angle master will work for a 6 inch (150 mm) diameter wheel.

[Rob]

Hi All,
i was looking into getting a Bench grinder mount BGM-100 to deal with some of the slowness of rapid steel removal.
the instructions describe that you can use this with Gouge Jig SVD-185, Multi Jig SVS-50 and Tool Rest SVD-110.
is there any reason you could not use BGM-100 with
SE-76
SVH-320
or even DBS-22 (not that speed of material cut is an issue with this brilliant Jig)

Also if you were able to use these jigs (SE-76, SVH-320) would you need to use TTS-100 for setting the angles for changing between bench grinder and Tormek water cooled?
or would Angle master WM-200 be fine depending on grind stone size i guess

Thanks

The BGM 100 is simply a method of allowing the universal sppt from the Tormek to be deployed against a "foreign" grinding wheel. The setup is all about making certain its parallel to the wheel when true. Once that's achieved the jigs function in precisely the same way as they would on the Tormek.  The geometry of angle setting is all about protrusion of the blade from the jig coupled with distance of universal sppt from wheel.  It doesn't matter that the wheel doesn't "belong" to a Tormek as long as the universal sppt is parallel to it.  All other settings can be derived using the angle master or the marker pen method to ensure all the bevel is being ground.

One word of caution though...

...faster grinding does not necessarily mean better grinding!  The whole point of water cooled grindstone technology is to reach an equilibrium between efficient steel removal and avoiding drawing the temper of the tools steel.

Using the BGM100 on a regular grinder will allow you to mirror the angles you can set on the Tormek.  It will allow you to positively muller the steel off. The question is, would you want to?  Because without constant cooling, you will just draw the temper of the tool and render the steel brittle and incapable of holding an edge.

So carefully does it is the right approach.  Faster may not necessarily be better!

[Ken S]

Jeff Farris demonstrates reshaping a turning gouge as part of the turning tool jigs video.  While not at warp speed, the time involved did not seem excessively long to me.  Keep in mind, Jeff has many years of experience and knows how to keep the grinding wheel working well.

My (recurring) question is how much saved time are we talking?  How many turning gouges which need to be reshaped, probably only once?

not preachy, just curious,

Ken

[Rob]

Well I've done several gouges.  Each went from factory grind to finger nail grind which is a lot of metal. These are also high speed steel so very very hard

The shaping takes a max of twenty minutes even for the bigger ones (1/2").  The smaller ones took half that time.  Sharpening now takes under a minute. At no time have I ever drawn the temper and they are as sharp as ever with a perfect single facet bevel right round and symmetrically matched flute wings

They work absolutely fantastically, no problems at all.  In my view this is where the Tormek really stands apart. The combination of the articulated gouge jig and the water cooled stone is absolutely fabulous. Mine is permanently set up about one yard from my lathe!

[Herman Trivilino]

There have been many times when I've had to grind a lot of steel off of something like a lawnmower blade.  The dry grinder is definitely faster than the Tormek.  You just have to be careful to keep the steel cool by repeatedly dipping it in a nearby tub of water.

[Rob]

Agreed, dry grinding is faster. I guess that's precisely why they came out with the BGM 100 ie to capitalise on all those dry grinders. But it's as you say, watch out for the heat, its easy to blue the edge.  I've even managed to get smoke coming off a gouge edge while on the Tormek, that's how hot it can get (probably steam thinking about it).

I've often wondered how far into the metal the temper drawing travels. It often seems to me its not that far so if you're removing a lot of metal you can allow a bit as long as you then grind that away and be ultra careful with the last mm grinding

[AussieChippy]

Hi All,
this forum truely amazes me. i was expecting one reply after less than a day but to see all these wow! thanks guys.
the question of steel removal.
Well i guess the point of back ground is in my user name, I'm a carpenter by trade and holding an edge isn't something that comes up.
the 4 things i sharpen with my tormek
HHS planner blades for my hand held Makita Planner.
Chisels
Planner irons
Drill bits
the  issue i have is in my line of work tools get a pretty hard life, they don't get a chance to gracefully dull in time, they get a flogging over a job and then they need alot of work to get there edge back. no one pays me (nor do i have time) to head the tormek after every day i give my planners or Chisels a tough day to bring their edge back.

quite often i head to the tormek because my planer blade or chisel has come into contact with something other than wood.
and especially with my HHS 82mm blades they take ALONG time to get there edge back with some of the gouges i get in them.

I do love the water cooling of the tormek and i can shave with my chisels when i have finished sharpening them. but because of the abuse my tools get, it's always alot of steel that needs to be removed to bring the edge back.

it's not about changing the way i use my tools, people don't pay me to gently remove or skip around items. they pay me to get the job done.

So that is a bit of back ground to  what i'm sharpening and why it's always alot of steel i'm removing. overheating the edge is one of the biggest problems i face in sharpening the tools i do.

so as as i would love to make the amazing pieces, which i'm sure you do with your well sharpened wood turning tools. it's fair to say i'm abit more of a butcher.

Thank you all so very much for your replies.

if anyone has any ideas how to best sharpen these planner blades
http://compare.ebay.com.au/like/270722191970?ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes
then that would be most appreciated. like i said, in the SVH-320 i will only get half the knicks out and the wheel will stop removing steel like when i first trued the wheel and i get nowhere.
it's with large steel removal that i get stuck with the tormek.
unfortunately for me it's not a one resharpening and then two minutes regularly after that.

thanks

Phil

[Herman Trivilino]

it's with large steel removal that i get stuck with the tormek.

Another option for you would be the Blackstone Silicon (SB-250) grindstone.

[Rob]

Good points you make Phil. You're a "proper" chippy.  I think many of the folks here are doing more cabinet making and the tools don't have such a hard life.

It sounds to me like the BGM 100 and a decent dry grinder might be right fir your purposes.  Oddly enough, I have the svh 320 and the silicon blackstone wheel for my machine planar blades and its not that fast to be honest

I don't have the BGM 100 but I do have a dry grinder I'm tempted to get the jigs though. Planar blade sharpening is a pig because of the enormous amount of steel removal needed.  My planar blades are 12" and they glaze the stone quite fast. Much discussion has been had here about continually dressing the stone to keep it cutting with diamond dressers rather than the stone that comes with the Tormek. I must say I haven't tried that yet myself. I dread sharpening my planar blades!

If you can sharpen the blades on  a dry grinder and keep them cool then keep us posted.  We'd all be interested

Cheers

[AussieChippy]

Hi All,
Yes i too have purchased the SB-250 hoping that it would speed up the cutting but i haven't found it a great help.

i had not heard the term of "stone glazing" but i have definitely experienced it and been unsure of what to do with this. perhaps i should read the forums about this to see what people say.

thanks again for the replies, best forum!

cheers

Phil

[Jeff Farris]

...
i had not heard the term of "stone glazing" but i have definitely experienced it and been unsure of what to do with this. ...
Phil

Freshen the surface with the coarse side of the stone grader.

[Rob]

Hi All,
Yes i too have purchased the SB-250 hoping that it would speed up the cutting but i haven't found it a great help.

i had not heard the term of "stone glazing" but i have definitely experienced it and been unsure of what to do with this. perhaps i should read the forums about this to see what people say.

thanks again for the replies, best forum!

cheers

Phil

I would seriously recommend use of this forum to accelerate your knowledge and understanding of the Tormek and its mryiad of uses way beyond the regular documented approaches.  The expertise present in this community is the best there is in all things Tormek.  Its helped me no end.  Apart from the regular contributors who themselves have several lifetimes of experience, it has Jeff Farris who posts regularly.  Jeff pretty much wrote the book on good practice using the Tormek.  He has 20 years of practical demonstrations and tutorial production experience where he is the operator....frankly there's nothing Jeff doesnt know about the Tormek and its associated jigs.  Jeff is the moderator by the way.

[Ken S]

Phil,

Welcome to the forum.  have you tried sharpening your chisels to a slightly steeper bevel angle?  I tried sharpening one of my knockabout chisels to 30 degrees instead of the customary 25. (This works better with more narrow chisels like 1/2" to 1" because of the more concentrated force.) It's the chisel that gets all the unpleasant tasks.  The edge seems to last better at the steeper angle.  Sharp carries the day.

The Lie-Nielsen website has several quite good you tubes including some very good sharpening films.  They don't use a Tormek, however, I like their idea of a simple jig board to set the projection length of the chisel blades from the sharpening jig.  I am a believer in standardizing the projection length of the chisel blade in the SE-76.  It allows "setting and forgetting" the universal service bar distance.  What this means is it can be very quick to sharpen several chisels.  For a working carpenter (I like the term chippy.) more frequent quick trips to the Tormek instead of fewer and longer trips means spending less time in the half dull blade scenario.

By standardizing the blade projection and usb distance, and using a simple wooden gage block,changing blades should be quite quick.  I'm a home workshopper who rarely has more than two dull chisels.   For a working chippy, doing all your chisels before regrading the stone might be more efficient.

If you use a dry grinder for your planer blades, try dressing a crown on the wheel.  An inexpensive T shape diamond dresser does a good job of this.  The crown allows the work (contact with the blade) to be done with a small portion of the wheel face.  It should run cooler.  Using a plant mister might help, too.

Good luck, and do keep us posted.

Ken

[Rob]

Some really good tips there Ken