What kind of kitchen knives should I buy?

[rsaygv]

I am buying my wife a new set of kitchen cutlery for Christmas. The present is partly for her and partly for me, since I am tired of sharpening our el cheapo knife set on my Tormek. I wondered if the users here have noticed differences in how well certain brands (and lines) of cutlery take an edge and the subsequent durability of the edges. I was specifically looking at the Henckels Pro S line of knives, since they were rated highly by consumer reports and I didn't have any other good resource. (It took less than half an hour for me to get totally lost in marketing hype.)

So, what kind of kitchen knives do Tormek wielding sharpening aficionados like and ultimately buy?

[jeffs55]

Buy the cheapest ones you can live with! ALL knives need to be sharpened at some time so get the ones that are easiest to sharpen. Soft = inferior steel usually is a hallmark of cheap knives. So what? We are in our own kitchen and doing our own thing. I sa, buy what works that you can get sharp and be satisfied. I do not own any high end knives so this is not an entirely objective review.

[Ric Albano]

I bought $6 Japanese knock off knives years ago and by keeping them sharp, visitors are amazed and praise me for how sharp and 'expensive' they are

[Jeff Farris]

I have expensive knives and cheap knives of my own, and over 17 years of demonstrating, I've ground everything from the cheapest to some of the most expensive for prospective buyers. Here are just a couple observations.

Be careful when shopping high-end names. Henckel and Wusthoff both have "ranges". Their cheap lines are no better than no-name hardware store lines. Their top ranges are exceptionally good steel with very comfortable designs, but they are priced at the upper end.

One line that I am very fond of, which does not get the respect it deserves in the consumer field is Forschner. I know a lot of restaurant professionals that use Forschner exclusively, and it can usually be found for much less than other European lines (Forschner is Swiss).

Don't buy a "set" of knives. You need a paring knife, a boning knife, a chef's knife and a bread knife...not much else. The bread knife should be serrated. You'll find those in a set, but there will be 3 or 4 more knives in it as well that will end up unused.

Store knives in a block on the counter, not in a drawer. Never...ever...put a knife in a dishwasher or in a sink full of sudsy water. The dishwasher will ruin the knife, the knife in a sink of water will cause a cut.

[Black Mamba]

I was given a very high-end set of Henckel knives. For sure, they are excellent instruments....worthy of the acclaim they receive. Interestingly, though, I often find myself reaching for one of the several Chicago Cutlery knives I also keep in the same oak storage block. I think it's the comfortable wood handles of the CC knives that I prefer.

Jeff is right about this point.....I tend to use 5 knives for most everything, the others are used sparingly, if at all.

[rsaygv]

Thanks Jeff, that's just the kind of information I'm looking for.  I can make any straight piece of steel sharp, at least for a while, but that doesn't tell the story of a kitchen knife. One of the things that is confusing when you start looking at knives is the amount of information generated by people who know nothing about knives, steel and sharpening. I have friends who have vast "collections" of high end knives on display in their kitchen that are as sharp as bowling balls. Last year at a party I found a friend with a large block and a drawer full of Wusthof knives,  because she had been replacing all the dull ones. I am interested in replacing our knives because I have noticed that my bottom of the line Chicago Cutlery knives from 25 years ago don't take and hold their edge as well as some of the better knives I have sharpened for my neighbors.

I'll take a look at the Forschner knives today. The only other knife that my wife regularly uses is a 6-7"santoku knife, however, she is unable to tell me why she uses it, other than habit. I will not be attempting to change her habits, because I know what's good for me.

[rsaygv]

I have been looking at the Forschner Victorinox knives. They seem to have two main lines. Stamped steel with Fibrox handle and forged steel with POM (plastic over molded) handle.  To get a chef's knife, paring knife, bread knife, boning knife and Santoku knife costs about $105 in their stamped steel line and about $323 in their forged steel line. Jeff, do you have a suggestion as to which line to go with? Either would be way under the cost of the Henckels PRO S line at about $457.

[Ken S]

I agree with Jeff Farris.  I do the chopping for our meals, and use my faithful twenty year old Henckels every day.  They were, and probably still are, the top of the line.  They are comfortable and a joy to use.  I would not buy a set.  I use the eight inch chef's knife, the four inch paring knife, a six inch slicing knife and a bread knife.  My boning knife is mostly used with tomatoes, as we eat very little meat.  The ten inch slicing knife sees very little duty.  If your budget is tight, start with just the chef's knife and the paring knife.  They will suffice.

My knives have never been near a dishwasher and are carefully stored in a now well worn knife block.

Good knives should end up as part of your estate, and are a pleasure to use.  You will use them more often than a Kitchenaid and probably a Cuisinart.  put your resources where they will give service every day.

The other side of knives is a good cutting board.  I have used an 18 x 24" Boos board for many years.  I would not go any smaller unless it is absolutely necessary.

Ken

[rsaygv]

Ken, Thanks for your insights. Based on how nice our 25 year old set of cheap knives look, I'm certain these knives will end up as part of the estate, barring catastrophe or theft.  Budget isn't a big concern on this purchase, however, I want to put my money into quality steel and good craftsmanship while avoiding paying any more than necessary for marketing hype. I don't need the knives to improve my social standing or to decorate the kitchen. Thankfully, my wife isn't label/brand oriented. 

I see what you guys mean about the set purchases. They seem to be cleverly designed not to include the knives you need until you buy at least half a dozen unneeded knives. 

I am concerned about comfort though. My wife has bad arthritis in her hands, so weight, handle shape and balance of the cutting tools are important. I think your idea of a larger cutting board is also a good one. (Ours is only about 12"x16") It sounds like you have been pretty happy with the Henckel knives.

[Jeff Farris]

Being sort of old fashioned, I prefer the rosewood handled Forschners, but the forged blade would be my second choice, if I had to have a plastic handle. The rosewood handles are getting hard to find, since they can't be used in professional kitchens any longer. Here's one site I found that had a good selection of everything, and at first glance, it appears very good prices.

http://www.cutleryandmore.com/forschner_rosewood.htm

[Ken S]

Jeff, as much as I like my old Henckels, if I had seen the rosewood handled knives at the time I might be just a passionate about them today.  The rosewood handles would have a nice feel and seem more natural. (The prices seem very reasonable, too.) I'm sure the plastic handles are designed for health department restaurant regulations.

I gave my daughter a nice old Sabatier slicing knife with carbon steel and a nice ebony (or ebonized) handle. In hindsight, I wish I had kept it.  It just feels hand friendly.

Ron, I can appreciate your concern for your wife's hands.  In fact, the main reason I originally purchased my Tormek was because my hands hurt after flattening several chisels.  I hope you will research the choice and use of kitchen knives for arthritic hands and post the results.  Keeping the knives sharp should also help lessen the strain of using them.

One thing I have notices about using a cutting board is how important having it at the right height is.  It can be the difference between feeling good and back pain. 

This is an interesting topic.

Ken

[Jeff Farris]

... I'm sure the plastic handles are designed for health department restaurant regulations.

Ken

Somewhere in the late 90s wooden handled knives were completely outlawed from commercial kitchens. I bought ten 12 inch Forschner chef's knives from a restaurant supplier below cost, since they were dead inventory for him at that point. I thought those would keep me in demonstration knives for the next few years. At the time, I was grinding through low-end Henckels at the rate of 2 or 3 per year. In contrast, I got 2 or 3 full years out of each Forschner.

Granted, my demonstration and sharpening technique improved in that window as well, but that gave me a great appreciation for Forschner knives.

Another line that I like very much, but failed to mention earlier in this thread is Global. Good stuff.

[Jimmy Russells]

I like German made Wusthof.

[rsaygv]

Well, I have placed an order for the rosewood Forschners. I bought a chef's knife, bread knife, boning knife, paring knife and santoku knife for $165, delivered. I probably would have purchased the forged knives for myself, but since the forged blades are generally heavier, I thought my wife might be better with a thinner, lighter, stamped steel blade, to reduce strain on her hands.

[Jeff Farris]

I'll be interested to hear what you and your wife think about them after the first of the year.