Stone Grader SP-650

[Steve Brown]

Full member. Way to go Ken.
Steve

[Ken S]

Thanks, Steve.

Ken

[Steve Brown]

Just reading about chisels in Fine Woodworker. Seems the Japanese chisels are very highly rated. Can anybody compare Japanese chisels to Lie-Neilsen chisels in terms of sharpening. Can't tell if the Japanese steel is O-1 or A-2.
Steve

[ionut]

Hi Steve,

I own both Japanese chisels and few Lie-Nielsen ones. Lie-Nielsen ones are great chisels and finely made but somehow I always grab the Japanese ones for almost everything. I had troubles flattening a Lie-Nielsen one because it had a belly but both of them are easy to sharpen, I would say the Japanese ones go faster as the most part of it is a soft steel. The Japanese ones have the huge advantage of having the back hollowed so flattening goes very fast, a small disadvantage of the hollowed back is the fact that when your edge gets to the hollow part you will have to flatten them again but considering that being very fast I don't see this as a problem. As far as the edge quality and longevity I don't see anything being as good as the Japanese ones but that's my opinion. As an example I was able to cut 4 sides (19" wide) of a chest in fir with the same 4 chisels without the need to re-sharpen them. As far as I know they are O1 and I believe the secret of their quality stands in how they are forged. I also have few mortise ones and I never chipped them even though I pry pretty hard on them and they are hardened at 65.

Ionut

[Steve Brown]

Hey Ionut,
Can you tell me what brand the Japanese chisels are that you use? Japanese Woodworker has a lot of Japanese chisels and some of them are wildly expensive. I guess it depends on the amount of hand forging involved. Supposedly, they're pretty sharp out of the box. Do you use the 4000 stone on them when they're new? Just out of curiosity, what kind of name is Ionut, is that Serbian? Not necessary to answer that, I'm just an very curious person. Thanks,
Steve

[ionut]

Mine are Matsumura, when I got my first couple I wasn't sure how they would work so I didn't want to risk ending with tools collecting dust but immediately knew I didn't waste the money, but I still didn't go further than that, the Damascus ones are very beautiful ones and they are an art to make but I don't consider they are needed for the work I do, If they work better I don't believe they work so much better than the more common ones, they have probably more value as collectibles and as they look I wouldn't put them at work. The price comes from the hand making process that also brings the quality and the capability of retaining the edge for a long time and in the case of Damascus ones the special way they make the alloys and folding of the steel in multiple layers during forging. I never saw a sharp chisel out of the box, whether is Japanese, Lie-Nielsen of cheaper ones at least they are not as sharp as they need to be. I always flatten/sharpen them before I even get them close to the wood. Sharpening starts at 1000 and goes up in my case, if the edges are chipped I start from 220, but I never had a new chisel chipped out of the box. They all say they are razor sharp but they are not... and in my opinion they don't have to be, the most important is for them to be as flat as possible. The makers of the Japanese chisel say you get to the steel quality I am talking about after 2-3 sharpening sessions and it is true.
You, indeed, are a very curious person, it is Romanian.

Ionut

[Steve Brown]

Ionut,
Sounds like pretty serious minded stuff. Like maybe this is not just a hobby for you. What do you do if I might ask. Are you making furniture for sale?
Also interesting. You're rrom Romania, my family is from Hungary. You live in Canada, I live in US. Still neighbors.

[Steve Brown]

Ionut,
After my last post to you, I looked up the Matsumura chisels and I noticed the hollowed out back. Can you flatten the backs with the 220 wheel, or do you nedd to use a bench stone or both.
Thanks, Steve

[ionut]

Hi steve,

: ) yes we are still neighbours. We should probably create a new thread, this thread has slipped far from the original question. Yes I also make solid wood furniture for sale.
As I said in a different post I wouldn't flatten a tool on the side of the Tormek stone for two reasons, there are no real means to true and maintain a perfectly flat side of the stone and secondly the speed difference between the abrasive particles closer to the center of the wheel compared to the ones closer to the grinding surface would lead to uneven grinding action on the tool, but that's me. I always use the bench stones for flattening, it is an infrequent operation and I prefer to have a tool that I can rely on, instead of pulling my hair trying to find why my tools don't get a square edge or they don't cut as I expect them. All the Japanese chisels have hollowed faces for aiding with the flattening, that really makes flattening however you want to do it, fast. As the manual suggests you can flatten the backs on side of the grinding wheel.

Ionut

[Steve Brown]

Ionut,
If you're so inclined, please send me some pics of your work. I think you have my email from my profile.  I've been in the construction business for 40 years, but only now am I actually thinking about maybe supplimenting my income from my shop. Makes sense what you say about flattening the backs on the Tormek. So, do you flatten by hand on 4000 and 8000 bench stones? Do you, by chance, ever use the "ruler trick" to flatten the backs, or do you think that's a little hokey?
You think this thread is getting a little boring for others?

[Ken S]

"You think this thread is getting a little boring for others?"

No.

Ken

[Steve Brown]

Thanks Ken,
I'm thinking it's still kinda relevant.
Steve

[ionut]

Hi Steve,

I don't think is boring I just believe it does not serve anymore the question that initiated the thread.
Unfortunately I don't take pictures of my work and I have received many complains about that. My furniture business it is a tiny one, I work alone and I started to do it because people asked me to make things for them. I don't advertise and don't have a portfolio, but I do believe I may have some pictures of some things I've made  that were sent by the people I made them for, I'll have to look in my emails.
As I said earlier I start with a diamond stone 600 (sometimes 325 if the back looks bad or it turns to be a lot of work) then move to 1000, 4000 and 8000. Sometimes when I switch the grit I can quickly see if the work on the previous grit was complete or not and if not I am moving back a step. The ruler trick is a shortcut for plane blades flattening only, you don't want to apply that on chisels and I don't use it, I flatten the tools once and that's all with the exception of the Japanese chisels when I have to do a bit more flattening when I reach the hollow area. Sometimes the back of a plane blade is specifically ground to a 5-10 degrees to modify the cutting edge to avoid the tear out but I prefer to use the flat backs as reference surfaces and change the blade with one having a steeper bevel angle when dealing with difficult woods.

Ionut

[tooljunkie]

It is a good idea to get photo's of your work but like many people I don't always do it.
But at some time I would like to get a custom electric branding Iron to sign pieces that I have done.

Has any one used branding Iron to sign their work?

[tooljunkie]

Yes the posts are getting off topic but I still look through them but for some one new they would have a hard time making sense of how we got here from there.