What's new between the Tormek 2006 and T7

[Zhi]

Can anyone tell me what's new on T7 than Tormek 2006? I realized that the T7 coming with some new jigs, but I can always buy the jigs seperately, I would like to know any improvement on the machines.

Thanks

[Jeff Farris]

Tormek made numerous improvements to the machine over the last several years, without a model name change.  The difference between a T-7 and a 2000 depends a great deal on the age of the 2000.  A Model 2000 produced in 2007 would have all of the mechanical improvements found on the T-7.  Specifically, these technical improvements have been introduced over the past 4 or 5 years:

• five sided frame with beveled top
• improved motor isolation with the distance spring replacing the spacer
• improved motor isolation with a modification to the motor mounting pin
• micro-adjustable Universal Support with calibrated thumbwheel
• precision cast and machined horizontal base
• improved powder coat finish
• stainless steel main shaft, stone washers and stone nut

Model 2000's produced before 2007 might have some of these features and not others, depending on its year of production.

Aside from the technical improvements to the machine, the T-7 package includes the new SE-76 Square Edge Jig, while an older model 2000 included the SVH-60 Straight Edge Jig.  The SE-76 is an improved design that more precisely positions the tool square to the grindstone, thus ensuring square grinds if the grindstone is parallel to the Universal Support. The SE-76 also has an increased capacity of a full three inches compared to the 2-1/4 inches of the SVH-60.

The T-7 package also includes the SP-650 Stone Grader and the TT-50 Truing Tool, which were optional on the Model 2000.  The T-7 accessories (AngleMaster, Handbook, DVD, Honing Compound, Square Edge Jig, Stone Grader and Truing Tool) are packed in a tray that can be mounted to the wall or used as a drawer liner for handy access.

[Firewood_mostly]

Jeff,

Thank you for pointing out the key differences between the Tormek 2006 and T7.  I have an opportunity to buy what I'm told is Tormek super grind 2000 that's "just a few years old".  No date listed on the unit per the seller.  Accessories are missing as well as water trough so I was wondering if the accessory kit that's bundled With the T-7 is available as a separate package vs. buying the dressing and trying tools and guides.  My budget is for a T3, but I would most certainly welcome a chance to move into a 10 capacity if possible.  Lastly, is there a way to confirm the date of manufacture on these units?

Regards,

Tom

[Herman Trivilino]

You say the water trough is missing!  That'll have to be replaced:  AWT-250 Advanced Water Trough $27.

Check to see if the Universal Support is also missing.  That'll have to be replaced: US-105 Universal Support  $43.
Keep in mind that even if the original is there it probably doesn't have the micro adjust feature, which can be identified by looking to see if one of the shafts is threaded and there's a nut that spins on that threaded shaft.  This is an upgrade found on the newer machines.

Check and see if the machine has the horizontal base.  If not, it's pretty old.  You can buy one: XB-100 Horizontal Base  $26.

Next check to see if it has the EzyLock Main shaft as the older main shaft is made of tool steel and tends to rust, so you'll have to consider that factor.  (The older one requires a wrench to remove it).  Before buying definitely remove the existing main shaft and check for rust.
MSK-250 EzyLock Main Shaft Kit  $64.

Also, check to see how much of the grindstone is left.  They start with a diameter of 250 mm and wear down with use.   
SG-250 Grindstone $178

You'll have determine how many of the above four items are needed, and what their value is to you compared to the value of the new ones you'd receive with a new T7.

With a new T7 for $639 (http://www.sharptoolsusa.com/index.php?target=product&prodID=205&catID=4) you get all of the above plus the following

SE-76 Square Edge Jig $57
WM-200 Angle Master $26
PA-70 Honing Compound $9
SP-650 Stone Grader $28
TT-50 $86

You may not want the SE-76, but the rest of the items are indispensable.  The SE-76 is almost indispensable.

Keep all this information in mind when you negotiate the price.  If the grindstone is barely worn and the main shaft is not rusting I'd offer between $75 and $100, and go as high as maybe $200 or so if I had to.  Keep in mind you're taking a risk and not getting the guarantee that comes with a new machine, but at the right price it's worth the risk.  Make sure you run the machine and check for side-to-side wobbles in the grindstone which likely indicate a bent main shaft.

If you do decide to buy a new T7 look at the more expensive packages as they contain other jigs you'll likely want at discounted prices.  For example, I use my scissors jig a lot.  You may want the knife jig, too.

Please keep us posted as to how it goes.

[Ken S]

Tom,

I would question why the accessories are missing, especially the water trough.  I would also probe more carefully into "just a few years old".  I bought my first T7 in 2009.  I'm not exactly sure when the T7 was introduced, however, my 2009 purchase date would seem to fit the far end of "just a few years old".  Even at that age, I chose to upgrade the shaft to the EZYlock version and change to the new water trough.  The two together cost about a hundred dollars.

A careful worker who was having a retirement sale would have all the accessories.  Since they are apparently missing, I would suspect a less than careful work environment.  I would try to learn more about the history of the individual unit. 

You haven't stated anything about the seller.  It may be one thing if the seller happens to be your aunt selling some of your uncle's tools.  It may be quite another if it is a pawn shop or unknown seller.  Tormeks occasionally are stolen, like anything else.  (I know this from personal experience.  Someone has a T7 without accessories or water trough somewhere which was stolen from my house.)

I agree with Herman that you will need the accessories.  If you use planes and chisels at all, the SE-76 is a must have. 

I have bought many used tools over the years.   In fact, if I came upon a really nice older Tormek at an irresistible price I would probably buy it as a second unit.  (I have the SB and SJ wheels.)  The price would have to be very low for me to give up the benefits of the warranty and improvements.  And, I would have the advantage of the knowledge of the machine from "a few years" experience with it.  (I still lean toward adding a second new, no hassle unit.)

Unless you can purchase this unit for a price where you can buy the accessories and upgrades and still be well below the cost of a new unit, I would advise waiting until you have saved enough to buy a new unit. In the meantime, wet of dry sandpaper still does a very credible job of sharpening at low cost.  Be patient and focused.

I am still using my grandfather's 1931 Delta table saw.  The Tormek is a solid, well made product which will last a very long time.  A few dollars saved by purchasing an iffy unit may prove to be a dubious saving in the long run.

Good luck, and keep us posted.

Ken

[Rhino]

I agree with the others.  The grinder itself is just a part of the system.  A grinder that does not have all the other accessories was probably not treated well or of questionable providence.  There is a risk the stone is damaged, the universal tool rest and/or the universal tool rest mount is bent, the grindstone shaft could also be bent.  Of course, all the missing parts might also mean the machine is not functional to begin with - that's why the parts were lost (using one of the more innocent reasons).  You would have to check all of this before putting your money down.

It is not a great deal.

[Rob]

Love it....we've talked ourselves from...its a bargain......to...its stolen...dont touch it with a barge pole!

Gotta love this place :-)

[Herman Trivilino]

Keep in mind that the grindstone alone is likely worth more than $100.  Of course, you have to have a Tormek or it's worth nothing!

[Firewood_mostly]

Herman, Ken, Rhino, Rob,

What great enthusiasm and expertise here on this forum!  I posted my query hoping to hear a comment within a few days and received detailed analysis within a few hours.  Wow, I'm really impressed and grateful for the insight.  This is a tremendous help in getting my bearings and determine where the real value exists.  I'm going to make an insulting offer of the unit for sale while continuing to save up for a T7.  Today the seller informed me that the box was found with model 2006 printed on it so it's probably been neglected as opposed to one that's been pilfered which I would want absolutely no part of if it's origins are dubious.  Still more than a few years old by most definitions, but perhaps a low offer is still in order.  One thing that's clear is that if I were to pinch penny's and buy a cheap, poorly-crafted Asian clone the support would be sparse or non-existent.  Where are the forums and such enthusiasm surrounding the Schl. brand, Griz. Or J brands? I've done a lot of research on them and they are clearly a compromise in more ways than one.

Regards,

Tom

[Firewood_mostly]

Ken,

I'm sorry to hear that your original T7 was stolen.  Hopefully the s/n can be registered and flagged as stolen if it ever pops up on the radar.  I had a nice camera stolen and found one on craigslist a week later missing accessories, a distinct  scratch on bezel, etc. but was unable to close the loop on it lacking the S/N.  I'd tossed the packaging ages before and never bothered to register it.

Regards,

Tom

[Rob]

This forum is unique Tom.....and its kind of you to make the comments you did.  I think this forum is refelctive of the values of the sort of people who buy the Tormek.  It does cost a bit of money but its only in proportion to the value it then delivers....so actually its not expensive....its just very very good at what it does.

It also comes with all these external advantages.....this forum I have to say is one of them, it is a veritable gold mine of knowledge and experience with many decades of combines knowledge and a genuine spirit of sharing from the members.  The after sales service and support from Tormek is second to none.  Many times someone has come on this forum and asked questions regarding a jig or a wheel where something wasnt quite right and they get fast and positive responses from either the dealer network or Tormek themselves.  (Not that much goes wrong with it to be fair....its bullet proof).

But Tormek was really the first in this space you see....its sort of the original and best....the clones want a piece of the action but somehow their products just dont measure up...no one really "cares" about them...its different with the Tormek....almost like a family friend.  I cant really describe it, but it has doubtless facilitaed this community because of itsincredible flexibility and versatility at sharpening just about anything.

Personally (Ive had mine 5 years) I couldnt be without it...my chisels, plane irons, machine planar blades, kitchen knives, secateurs, turning tools, pen knives, mower blades, hedge shears etc....would never let me :-)

Save your cash and get the real deal....you'll never regret it

[Ken S]

Tom,

When my Tormek was stolen, I emailed Tormek. I was in the middle of moving, and had no idea ass to the serial number.  Tormek promptly sent a reply with the serial number.  You pay a Cadillac price, but get Cadillac service.

If I was not moving, I would have checked with the local pawn shops.  In addition to the Tormek, the thieves took some other power tools.  Nothing has been recovered.  I suspect the police budget goes mostly for violent crimes, which I can understand.  I've moved on from the burglary.  I keep my outside lights on at night and had a security system installed. (I think the lights and living in the house are the main deterrents.)

Someone has a lousy dry grinder.  90 rpm won't cut it!

I agree with Rob's thoughts.  A Tormek will probably be part of your estate, and perhaps your children's estate.  It's a quality product built for the long run.  Over the years it will give you many well sharpened edges, with the resulting pleasure of using sharp tools.  I would buy carefully, and wait and save if necessary.

Don't be put off by the cost of the accessory jigs.  You probably won't need most of them, certainly at the start.  Hang in there!

Ken

[Herman Trivilino]

Tom, did you ever find out how much of the grindstone is left? 

[Firewood_mostly]

Herman,

From the photo, the grindstone appears to be at or very close to the lowest index tick.  I can't make out the numbers - maybe 250?

Regards,


Tom

[Herman Trivilino]

250 mm is the diameter of a new grindstone.  Those cost $178 plus shipping!

I would take the grindstone off and look at the main shaft.  If there's no rust there's a good chance this machine is unused.

You could inquire as to the history of the machine and how it got to be in the state it's in, missing the water trough and all.