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a good video for perfectionist knife sharpeners

Started by Ken S, July 06, 2023, 11:53:54 AM

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tgbto


Quote from: HaioPaio on July 21, 2023, 12:50:23 PMSo, I do not know if it runs fast.

The relative intensity as well as pitch/frequency of the sound of the blade on the wheel is quite telling though, even if it is not a tachometer.

Quote from: 3D Anvil on July 21, 2023, 05:17:03 PMYou also have to consider that it's a 6" wheel, so it will be considerably slower (feet per second) than an 8" or 10" wheel rotating at the same speed.

A T-4 honing wheel rotates at 120RPM, for a diameter of 5 3/4". So even if he were using it at 2000 RPM, that is still 17 times faster. Or 15.5 times faster than the T-8 with LA-220.





HaioPaio

#31
Thanks for clarifying. We know now that this machine runs between 2000 and 3400 RPM.
Vadim Kraichuk did an fairly comprehensive testing on overheating of the knife apex. The report is available here http://knifegrinders.com.au/SET/Heat_in_Sharpening.pdf

Unfortunately, he did not directly address this type of leather disk wheel.
For general buffer wheel materials he concluded at page 19, that no overheating occurs, even with full speed.

Vadim most likely operated his machines in a 50 Hz environment.
So, his machines ran at 83% of the speed in an 60 Hz net.

Does anybody know facts about leather disc buffers?
Has anybody hands on experience with it?
I read in an ad that the leathers discs would not be glued together at the outer area and the air between the discs would support cooling. https://prosharpeningsupply.com/collections/wheels/products/leather-honing-wheel-fits-6-in-bench-grinders-and-polishers
The unglued space between the layers of leather allow for airflow and result in a much cooler running wheel, meaning you can make more passes in less time without overheating the blade.

I do not know if this is true.


Thy Will Be Done

Quote from: Ken S on July 21, 2023, 05:25:38 PMWhen I posted the link to this video, I did not anticipate the amount of attention using a higher speed buffer would receive. I have never owned or used a buffer. I also have not used my dry grinder in a dozen years.

Discounting the higher speed buffer, I still believe the video has value. I was impressed with the more in depth understanding of paper tests he demonstrated. He also demonstrated a practical efficient command of using his digital microscope.

Ken

I was more impressed with the microscope than anything he was doing, not to say he was unskilled but nothing struck me as being unique about his abilities.  Discriminating, yes.  Outstanding?  I suppose many commercial sharpening outfits are not this thorough but I definitely will not let blades leave that are not dialed in when it comes to my business.

Sir Amwell

It seems that this thread is now becoming polarised into whether the you tuber that initiated the discussion is correct in his chosen honing technique.
The technique he used maybe open to debate among purist Tormek users. Is it too fast and overheating the edge? Etc etc.
The process obviously works for him.
More pertinently, does it work for his customers?
Us Tormek users, slow and steadily and opinonatedly pursuing some holy grail of an ever decreasing Bess score, believing our way is the only way.
I get it. I've done it.
In the real world though away from our safe, organised and territorial workshops, customers want sharp knives. Do they care if it's 120 or 46 Bess? Do they care how their knife has been sharpened as long as it's satisfactorily sharp AND stays sharp for as long as possible ( good edge retention)?
I hope not to invite approbation from the belt grinding community. We know that using this method is highly likely to compromise the temper on the edge of a knife, even with frequent dunking in water to cool the edge ( arguably the damage is done before the chance to cool).
And us Tormek users can get very snobby about this, yes?
But the proof is in the slicing.
I personally prefer quality over quantity and like to know I have not compromised a customer's knife.
And so it then becomes easy to judge others.
What counts is edge retention.
Thanks to 3D for his work on this.it's reassuring.
What will be reassuring to the sharpener, the original subject of this topic, is whether his customer is happy and doesn't come back after a week saying 'it was really sharp and now it's already blunt' , or simply not use his services again.
His protocols will adjust accordingly.
Just my long winded twopennorth worth.....

tgbto

To be precise I have not wandered into the overheating or not realm.

My concern is rather how an uncontrolled honing on a high speed device may change the apex angle in an uncontrolled fashion, especially seeing how the wrist angle varies in the video. And whether cutting paper the way the sharpener did is any indication of an outstanding outcome of the sharpening process.

Wrt edge retention, the sweet potato test indicates that there is no significant difference between the two knives, but my opinion is the angle was more controlled throughout the process and the speed of the honing way lower.

Ken S

Good comments, deserving of better explanation. For several years I have regularly watch sharpening videos to expand my knowledge. I try to glean ideas. Not all of these videos are Tormek specific. If I see an interesting technique using another method which I feel can benefit my Tormek technique, I incorporate it into my knowledge base. I also tend to pass over or ignore things which do not seem to apply to or benefit my needs.

While working on this reply, I watched this video again. I am still impressed with Paul's use of the microscope. This is certainly not original; however, it is well demonstrated. I admit that I did not pay much attention to the honing portion. I have never used a buffer, being quite content with the Tormek leather wheel used at low speed. I sharpen for my own needs and do not feel any need for speed.

Ken