Author Topic: 100 Chisels to Sharpen  (Read 753 times)

Offline MartinC

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100 Chisels to Sharpen
« on: August 26, 2022, 06:07:07 am »
I am taken a woodworking class from a local company and when the instructor learned I had a Tormek is offering free tuition to assist with sharpen about 100 chisels. The instructor said that most are in awful condition and she wants to get then all sharpened properly in preparation for an upcoming had tool class.

I was thinking of getting an extra holder so a helper could load a chisel while I am sharpening. Should I look at a diamond stone to speed the process up? About how long should I plan per chisel? What protocol should I use?

Thanks

Martin

Offline RichColvin

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Re: 100 Chisels to Sharpen
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2022, 03:30:05 pm »
Martin,


The diamond wheels would be of most use if the chisels need to first be reshaped (I.e., they have really bad nicks or are simply just mangled by the sharpening before you).  Switching between the course, fine, and extra fine without having to reset anything is a real time saver! 

But, the traditional grindstones work well also.  And the Japanese stone does an excellent job!

One recommendation I do have is to use a jig like the one in the picture attached.  Using that with a TTS-100 has drastically sped up my chisel sharpening process.  More about that at this link: https://sharpeninghandbook.info/indexJigs.html#ProjJigTTS100.

Kind regards,
Rich
« Last Edit: August 26, 2022, 03:33:34 pm by RichColvin »
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Offline Ken S

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Re: 100 Chisels to Sharpen
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2022, 07:25:15 pm »
I am taken a woodworking class from a local company and when the instructor learned I had a Tormek is offering free tuition to assist with sharpen about 100 chisels. The instructor said that most are in awful condition and she wants to get then all sharpened properly in preparation for an upcoming had tool class.

I was thinking of getting an extra holder so a helper could load a chisel while I am sharpening. Should I look at a diamond stone to speed the process up? About how long should I plan per chisel? What protocol should I use?

Thanks
Martin

Martin,

To be honest, you are swimming in the deep end of the pool. I don't want to discourage you; just be aware that the amount of work you may be getting into may far exceed your financial savings. That stated, here are my suggestions:

Leave the narrow chisels for last. They are the most difficult to sharpen. If you have the mindset of sharpening your 100 chisels working from narrow to broad, you will probably fail. Become attuned by starting with a 3/4” or 1/2”.

Rich's suggestion of using the TTS-100 is an excellent idea. I have been using mine for chisels and plane blades since 2010 as my set up tool. Set up involves Projection (how far the chisel and jig projects from the support bar) and Distance from the support bar to the grinding wheel. Using the TTS-100 to set the Distance keeps it constant and automatically corrects for wheel wear. I set up the first chisel using the TTS-100 to set the Distance and the Anglemaster to set the Projection. When the Projection is set, hold the chisel in the jig against one of the slots in the TTS-100 and mark where the edge is with a fine tip marker. The typical bevel angle setting for chisels is 25°.

Once the Distance is set for the first chisel, there is no need to change it. Set the Projection for chisels 2 through 100 by matching the edges to the marker line. All of your chisels will have the same bevel angle.
No measuring of computer is necessary. This set up is also very fast.

You have to determine what is "good enough". For chisels"in awful condition", "not too terrible" is a big improvement. I am not condoning slipshod work, only saying that expectations need to be reasonable. Rule out finishing with the 4000 grit Japanese wheel. For chisels in reasonable condition, the SG-250 graded coarse and then fine, followed by the leather honing wheel with PA-70 honing compound will deliver very sharp chisels.

Often the longest part of sharpening a chisel is flattening and polishing the back. I highly recommend you obtain a copy of Leonard Lee's Sharpening book. It is readily available new, used, or at libraries. It discusses chisel backs and is an excellent sharpening reference.

If you decide to get a diamond wheel, get the DC coarse wheel. It will speed up initial work grinding ("the awfuls")

Study the Tormek online classes. The chisel, Stig, and honing classes will be very helpful.

Good luck and keep us posted,

Ken

Offline MartinC

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Re: 100 Chisels to Sharpen
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2022, 12:09:32 am »
@Rick - I have ordered the TTS-100 and I can see how that will help. I have a small CNC and have made a jig to help with my own chisels, so I can modify the design for the schools.

@Ken - No doubt I am in the deep end, most likely with heavy weights...

Currently the school is offering a 1:1 offer. For every how spent sharpening, they will credit me for classroom time and / or shop time. The shop time would be very helpful as I have limited power tools at the house.

I think they have 15 - sets with 6 chisels in each set. Not all are awful, only the most popular sizes, so some will require more work than others.

So, it will be a workout to get to the end, something to consider as time these days, time is precious. On the other hand, I should be a lot better and sharpening chisels by the end :)

Is the thought to use the diamond wheel to get to something that is not awful and use the SG-250 at fine to do the rest? One concern with the SG is after a modest amount of use it tends to be somewhere between the course and fine and seems to require grading often. My impression could be wrong on this.

Thanks




Offline tgbto

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Re: 100 Chisels to Sharpen
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2022, 02:53:04 pm »
Martin,

Just my two cents : if the idea is to use the diamond wheel for reshaping, it clearly is not the most efficient way to go. I believ you'll be better off with one of those "Elite" belt sanders, that will save you considerable time. And you'll have some spare change. Then finish on the SG as per above instructions to get a precise angle and nice finish.

If you have some other ambitions for the diamond wheel, such as special-steel tools or want to sharpen without changing USB height when changing stones, that's a different story. But then you'd have to get the DF-250 and DE-250 too.

Offline RickKrung

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Re: 100 Chisels to Sharpen
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2022, 03:27:57 pm »
Good comments made here.  I agree with tgbo, that you might be better off with a good belt grinder for the ones requiring heavier metal removal.  I had all three diamond wheels and found I still wanted a more aggressive first step.  I have a Viel belt grinder that I modified for variable speed and reversible direction.  I also have a Rikon slow speed grinder that had the white abrasive wheels.  I opted to get CBN wheels, one 80 grit for the grinder and 180 grit for the T8.  These latter two are now my go-to for the initial grinding on edges needing heavier grinding.  Often, the 180 CBN on the T8 is adequate, particularly for knives, but when the dry 80 CBN on the grinder is needed, it makes the job so much easier and faster.  To be sure, a belt grinder would be lots better for what you want to do, I just have found something I like better. 

Also, while I definitely appreciate your desire to help the school out, that it will require a substantial investment to upgrade your sharpening system to effectively accomplish this task of 100 chisels, does it make financial sense?  How much is class/shop time per hour?  How much are you going to have to spend to to be able to sharpen chisels to avoid having to pay that?  And what about your time?  How much time is going to take to do the sharpening (how many chisels per hour will you be able to do)?  Do you have adequate time available to do this sharpening and participate in the shop class?  Unless, of course, one happens first (sharpening) and then the class starts. 

Rick
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Offline WimSpi

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Re: 100 Chisels to Sharpen
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2022, 06:32:04 pm »
It is a mass grinding process.  How would I go about it?

I would first study the status of the chisels carefully. At what angle are most chisels sharpened? Do you maintain this angle or not. (In the Netherlands, we sharpen chisels at 27 degrees instead of 25 degrees). How flat and polished is the back? That is where most of the work is. If the back surface is too damaged, I would not sharpen that chisel. That takes a lot of time.

If you want to change the sharpening angle, it takes more time than if you maintain the angle.

I would also not go for a "secondery bevel". This only slows down the overall grinding process and does not yield much profit (it is never used in the Netherlands).

Furthermore, I would start with the 19mm width chisels. That is the chisel I have used the most in the last 50 years and it is the same for most woodworkers.

I also agree with Ken: Leave out the Japanese stone. It doesn't give much sharpening result for chisels. Use the Sg-250 or the Diamondstone 600 and then the leather wheel with the Tormek paste.

Don't forget that these are apprentices. They also have to learn, while working with a chisel, to regularly take the chisel over a whetstone and then work with the chisel again. That's why I always had a Belgian Coticule-stone in the pocket of my overalls.....
« Last Edit: September 01, 2022, 12:23:21 pm by WimSpi »

Offline Ken S

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Re: 100 Chisels to Sharpen
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2022, 11:20:30 pm »
Good thoughts, Wim.

Ken

Offline smcinco

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Re: 100 Chisels to Sharpen
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2022, 07:10:01 pm »
As long as you're being paid for your time and you're happy with the rate, go for it IMO.  On the other hand, if you're thinking of doing by the piece, make sure the backs have already been flattened.  That's 90% of the job in my experience.  I just ordered a diamond stone and MB-100 for that very reason.

Offline MartinC

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Re: 100 Chisels to Sharpen
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2022, 02:38:13 am »
Update on the sharpening.

I have about 50 complete with 25 to be done this weekend and 25 next weekend.

The project evolved into a fair amount of teaching. I had some of the students help with flattening the back of the chisel and help with the sharpening process. I’m not sure I know enough to teach, and I was clear to all that I am new to sharpening the Tormek. Knowing that, as a we group watched some videos, talked it through and slowly worked our way through the first 50 chisels.

The results were surprisingly good, the main instructor was pleased with the results.

Also, I have learned a lot about sharpening chisels and have enjoyed the process.

It was been a fun project and got me out the house and meeting new people.


And while i wasn’t finically driven to do this, the school has been generous with paying me as a teacher as well as offering free classes. As a bonus, they gave me a modest amount of Walnut for a small table.


Offline Ken S

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Re: 100 Chisels to Sharpen
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2022, 04:07:17 am »
Martin,

I really enjoy situations where everybody wins, everyone benefits. Your happy situation is certainly one of them. The students and school benefitted; you as both sharpener and teacher benefitted. And, the walnut table you will build will be a happy reminder of this enjoyable time.

Well done!

Ken

Offline WimSpi

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Re: 100 Chisels to Sharpen
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2022, 07:55:42 pm »
Martin,

I really enjoy situations where everybody wins, everyone benefits. Your happy situation is certainly one of them. The students and school benefitted; you as both sharpener and teacher benefitted. And, the walnut table you will build will be a happy reminder of this enjoyable time.

Well done!

Ken

I totally agree with that.

Wim