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Help with stropping

Started by davidapplewhite, January 01, 2021, 07:13:08 PM

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davidapplewhite

I'm brand new to Tormek having been on an Edge Pro for 12 years. I've never stropped before and I feel like I may be rounding the edge off slightly. I get the rotating the edge up until I see the burr starting to come off on the first side, but I'm having trouble repeating the angle after the burr is removed.

How do I maintain a consistent angle stropping?
How many passes should I be making with the strop for a standard German cooks knife vs a folder in m390.

BradGE

Hi David,

Welcome to the Forum!

You could try colouring in the bevel with a sharpie before each pass until you get a feel for the motion and angle that is required. And you could mount the USB on the front side of the machine to give yourself self somewhere to rest your wrist to maybe help get a repeatable movement.  I'm sure you'll crack it quickly. 

All the best,

Brad

RickKrung

Quote from: davidapplewhite on January 01, 2021, 07:13:08 PM
I'm brand new to Tormek having been on an Edge Pro for 12 years. I've never stropped before and I feel like I may be rounding the edge off slightly. I get the rotating the edge up until I see the burr starting to come off on the first side, but I'm having trouble repeating the angle after the burr is removed.

How do I maintain a consistent angle stropping?
How many passes should I be making with the strop for a standard German cooks knife vs a folder in m390.

By stropping, do you mean using the Tormek leather wheel with Tormek honing compound or the Tormek composite honing wheel?  I think of stropping as the use of bare leather as the final step in deburring/honing, but many refer to the Tormek deburring process as stropping. 

I think it is pretty easy to round over the apex when angle control is not consistent.  There is the instruction to increase the angle until you get some of the honing compound curling up over/off of the apex.  That raises the question for me about your statement above about "the burr starting to come off on the first side, but I'm having trouble repeating the angle after the burr is removed."  I have never "seen" the burr come off of any apex using any deburring process.  I think the burr itself is too small to see as you hone.  If you are talking about the stuff that curls off the edge as you hone, I think that is the honing compound. 

If you are referring to actually looking at the apex after honing on each side, that is a different matter.  Again, I've never really been able to see the burr without magnification and then only with really strong magnification. 

I never could freehand very well on the Tormek honing wheel, at least until after I gained some experience using aftermarket devices and software for accurate angle settings.  Specifically, the Frontal Vertical Base and one of the available apps.  These are NOT necessary, but it does take time practicing (on non-important knives/tools) to develop the technique and muscle memory, however you approach it. 

Rick
Quality is like buying oats.  If you want nice, clean, fresh oats, you must pay a fair price. However, if you can be satisfied with oats that have already been through the horse, that comes at a lower price.

John_B

My experience is the same as Rick's. I now can get a good edge finishing with the leather wheel and compound but there was a definite learning curve.

Using the FVB and honing wheel makes the honing easier and repeatable. Being able to precisely set the edge angle also results in sharper results.
Sharpen the knife blade
Hone edge until perfection
Cut with joy and ease

davidapplewhite

I am referring to the compound not the actual burr coming off. It would be nice if there was a way to use the guide on the leather wheel without having to reset everything.

cbwx34

Quote from: davidapplewhite on January 02, 2021, 03:30:05 PM
I am referring to the compound not the actual burr coming off. It would be nice if there was a way to use the guide on the leather wheel without having to reset everything.

There are a few alternatives to "resetting everything"....

If you're a pro sharpener, or just do a lot of sharpening, it may be worth the cost to purchase a 2nd Universal Support Bar (USB), along with a Front Vertical Base (FVB)... then you would have a setup for each side of the Tormek... sharpening edge leading on the grinding wheel, spin it around, and you're set for the honing wheel.  This assumes a few things... that you sharpen at the same angle, and that you clamp every knife the same distance (from the pivot to the edge of the blade).

You can also practice freehand stropping a bit more... I've found that if I start at a lower angle, then slowly raise the angle, I can feel and hear when the edge is reached... and strop at that angle.  With a bit of practice, this is a quick procedure.

I'm sure there's other ideas...

And coming from the Edge Pro, I'm guessing you're familiar with Ben's procedure of removing the burr with a ceramic rod.  I still do that a lot... with satisfactory results.  (Ben is a very knowledgeable sharpener... I use a lot of what he taught).
Knife Sharpening Angle Calculator:
Calcapp Calculator-works on any platform. New url!
(or Click HERE to see other calculators available)

RickKrung

Quote from: cbwx34 on January 02, 2021, 04:08:06 PM
Quote from: davidapplewhite on January 02, 2021, 03:30:05 PM
...snip... It would be nice if there was a way to use the guide on the leather wheel without having to reset everything.

There are a few alternatives to "resetting everything"....

If you're a pro sharpener, or just do a lot of sharpening, it may be worth the cost to purchase a 2nd Universal Support Bar (USB), along with a Front Vertical Base (FVB)... then you would have a setup for each side of the Tormek... sharpening edge leading on the grinding wheel, spin it around, and you're set for the honing wheel.  This assumes a few things... that you sharpen at the same angle, and that you clamp every knife the same distance (from the pivot to the edge of the blade).

You can also practice freehand stropping a bit more... I've found that if I start at a lower angle, then slowly raise the angle, I can feel and hear when the edge is reached... and strop at that angle.  With a bit of practice, this is a quick procedure.
...snip...

I agree with CB as far as getting a second USB so you can have one in each position and don't have to reset the one.  The FVB is a very nice improvement and I think you'll eventually want one. 

I sit in front of my T8, so do not do the spinning around thing.  Just my approach. 

I do not get these parts of your statements, CB:

Quote from: cbwx34 on January 02, 2021, 04:08:06 PM
...snip...This assumes a few things... that you sharpen at the same angle, and that you clamp every knife the same distance (from the pivot to the edge of the blade).
...snip...

I sharpen at a variety of angles and still use all this quite effectively.  And, while I use a consistent distance for setting the knife edge projection, the setup under discussion plus the Tormek system itself is good with different projection distances. 

Do you mean just being able to not change things for the USBs when sharpening knives? 

Rick
Quality is like buying oats.  If you want nice, clean, fresh oats, you must pay a fair price. However, if you can be satisfied with oats that have already been through the horse, that comes at a lower price.

John_B

If you are getting a second USB I would buy the US-430. It is longer and taller and works great with cleavers and other long,tall knives.

When I can I try and use a consistent knife edge to fixture knob distance for all knives. This allows me to set up the grinding and honing angles once and not change from knife to knife. With 2 USBs this speeds up sharpening quite a bit. Using this process I sharpen all knives in a set at the same angles. For a different brand I will set USB height using marker method and the calculator to determine the angle. I can then adjust the honing angle based on the angle I use for sharpening.
Sharpen the knife blade
Hone edge until perfection
Cut with joy and ease

Ken S

I agree with John about the US-430. It will do everything the standard US-105 universal support, and, with cleavers and long knives, it is in a class by itself.

Ken

cbwx34

Quote from: RickKrung on January 02, 2021, 06:21:26 PM
...
I do not get these parts of your statements, CB:

Quote from: cbwx34 on January 02, 2021, 04:08:06 PM
...snip...This assumes a few things... that you sharpen at the same angle, and that you clamp every knife the same distance (from the pivot to the edge of the blade).
...snip...

I sharpen at a variety of angles and still use all this quite effectively.  And, while I use a consistent distance for setting the knife edge projection, the setup under discussion plus the Tormek system itself is good with different projection distances. 

Do you mean just being able to not change things for the USBs when sharpening knives? 

Rick

Just pointing out that if a person doesn't want to "reset everything"... they need to keep everything consistent.

Kinda like that jig that's occasionally talked about... can't remember the name... JimJig, KimJig... Oh Yeah... KenJig.... ;)
Knife Sharpening Angle Calculator:
Calcapp Calculator-works on any platform. New url!
(or Click HERE to see other calculators available)

Ken S

CB,

That jig whose name is difficult for you to remember is not limited to one angle. You can actually use it for any angle and wheel diameter you wish. Each angle and/or wheel diameter will require making a separate kenjig; however, in thirty minutes to an hour, you can make a lifetime supply. With diamond, CBN, leather honing and felt wheels, the diameter should not change. The same kenjigs you make this year should be just as accurate five years from now.

How many bevel angle choices does one sharpener need? I set it up for 15° with an unused backup of 20º. It could easily be set up for any usable bevel angle, including deburring angles. One 2x2' sheet of Baltic birch plywood will give you a lifetime supply of deluxe kenjigs. Regular plywood, hardboard, cardboard or mat board also works. In fact, cardboard works very well for "one off" work. I leave it up to your imagination to devise clever labeling and organizing schemes.

I have traditionally used Dutchman's tables from 2013 for initial set up. From long use, they are quite familiar to me.
Recently, I have been using another app. I can't quite remember the name. Calc something....Ah ha, it's Calcapp.
I just received my January receipt from Patreon for it today. I hope you all did, too. Calcapp was almost killed 12-31-20. Calcapp needs all good Tormekers to step up and come to the aid of the party to keep it alive.

Please don't tell anyone that I am a Calcapp supporter with Patreon. It would ruin my cherished reputation as a stone age luddite.   :)

Ken