Idea for thick knives

[Sharpco]

I hope Tormek improve their SVM-45 so that we can clamp thick knives.

This image is my idea.(The shims must be included in the components of the Jig)

Like wootz's solution, it's okay to widen only static clamp.

[cbwx34]

I hope Tormek improve their SVM-45 so that we can clamp thick knives.

This image is my idea.(The shims must be included in the components of the Jig)

Like wootz's solution, it's okay to widen only static clamp.

Shims are a "necessary evil" for the current jig, but as a solution from Tormek?  Hopefully not.

Self-centering...  

[Sharpco]

I hope Tormek improve their SVM-45 so that we can clamp thick knives.

This image is my idea.(The shims must be included in the components of the Jig)

Like wootz's solution, it's okay to widen only static clamp.

Shims are a "necessary evil" for the current jig, but as a solution from Tormek?  Hopefully not.

Self-centering...  

I don't mind in any way, I wish Tormek could make a thick knife jig. Because there are many knives thicker than 2.2mm in the world. 

[Ken S]

My opinion only:

I believe the Tormek knife jigs are designed for sharpening typical European style kitchen knives. They also seem to be optimized for a range from a paring knife around 90mm to a chef's knife at 200mm. As already noted, they seem to be designed to work optimally with knives around 2.2 mm thick.

We have a "one size fits all" mentality. We expect socks to fit shoe sizes six through twelve. Really?

Most of our automobiles are designed to fit two adults and two children. Parking spaces are designed for smaller cars.

One of the reasons I recommend a 3/4" (19 mm) chisel as a first tool with the Tormek is because it is an optimal fit in the square edge jig. Narrow chisels can be sharpened with the jig, however, getting everything right is more difficult. This is not unique to Tormek.

The traditional Tormek approach for tools outside the range was sharpening them freehand or supported on the support bar. Chinese cleavers and very small knife blades were sharpened this way. Herman's small platform filled a gap (and continues to do so) by offering much more control with both small and large knives from pen knives and machetes.

I think Wootz has the right solution. He has had several knife jigs modified to accommodate different knife thicknesses. We would all like self centering jigs, however, when we eventually get them, we may still want more than one size.

I am convinced that for "farmers market" sharpening, meaning a very sharp, neat looking job where each bevel has a consistent bevel, the Tormek knife jigs are up to the task. With my kenjig technique, I use four knife jigs and the small blade holder to speed set up. If speed is not so critical, one or two jigs will carry the day.

The very demanding sharpener and those with clientele willing to pay accordingly, resetting the knife in the jig for the second bevel may be preferable. At that level, custom machining may be your only choice. I don't fault Tormek for this; there is more market for a forty dollar knife jig than there is at the $100 to $150 USD range.

I hope we eventually will see Tormek offering self centering knife jigs.

Ken

[Sharpco]

My opinion only:

I believe the Tormek knife jigs are designed for sharpening typical European style kitchen knives. They also seem to be optimized for a range from a paring knife around 90mm to a chef's knife at 200mm. As already noted, they seem to be designed to work optimally with knives around 2.2 mm thick.

We have a "one size fits all" mentality. We expect socks to fit shoe sizes six through twelve. Really?

Most of our automobiles are designed to fit two adults and two children. Parking spaces are designed for smaller cars.

One of the reasons I recommend a 3/4" (19 mm) chisel as a first tool with the Tormek is because it is an optimal fit in the square edge jig. Narrow chisels can be sharpened with the jig, however, getting everything right is more difficult. This is not unique to Tormek.

The traditional Tormek approach for tools outside the range was sharpening them freehand or supported on the support bar. Chinese cleavers and very small knife blades were sharpened this way. Herman's small platform filled a gap (and continues to do so) by offering much more control with both small and large knives from pen knives and machetes.

I think Wootz has the right solution. He has had several knife jigs modified to accommodate different knife thicknesses. We would all like self centering jigs, however, when we eventually get them, we may still want more than one size.

I am convinced that for "farmers market" sharpening, meaning a very sharp, neat looking job where each bevel has a consistent bevel, the Tormek knife jigs are up to the task. With my kenjig technique, I use four knife jigs and the small blade holder to speed set up. If speed is not so critical, one or two jigs will carry the day.

The very demanding sharpener and those with clientele willing to pay accordingly, resetting the knife in the jig for the second bevel may be preferable. At that level, custom machining may be your only choice. I don't fault Tormek for this; there is more market for a forty dollar knife jig than there is at the $100 to $150 USD range.

I hope we eventually will see Tormek offering self centering knife jigs.

Ken

I think wootz's solution is good too. But finding reliable experts to grind the jig is not easy and costs extra.

We all know that knife sharpening is the most exciting topic in the forum. I think it is because knife sharpening is difficult. Since sharpening is not simple because the knife has various thicknesses and shapes, the jig and contents of guidebook provided by Tormek are not enough.

I hope that a new knife sharpening accessory(including jig) will be made in a not so long period.

[Ken S]

I think wootz's solution is good too. But finding reliable experts to grind the jig is not easy and costs extra.

We all know that knife sharpening is the most exciting topic in the forum. I think it is because knife sharpening is difficult. Since sharpening is not simple because the knife has various thicknesses and shapes, the jig and contents of guidebook provided by Tormek are not enough.

I hope that a new knife sharpening accessory(including jig) will be made in a not so long period.
[/quote]

Over the years, Tormek made numerous improvements to the T7. These included the EZYlock, the Advanced Water Trough, the safety switch, and redesigned drive wheel. Throughout this process, the name, T7, was not changed.

The T3 was redesigned significantly, and became the T4. The SVD-185 gouge jig was improved significantly and renamed the SVD-186. The SE-76 was also significantly redesigned and designated the SE-77.

Minor changes were made to the knife jigs. Their designation were not changed. That makes me think that Tormek does not consider the changes significant. Between retaining the same jig designations and all the forum chatter, I would not be surprised if new knife jigs are in the design pipeline.

In fairness to Tormek, I would point out their design team has produced the T4, T8, T2, several substantial jig modifications, and five new diamond wheels recently. The marketing department totally redesigned their website. They have not spent their workdays drinking coffee.

I have not thought about the difficulty of sharpening knives compared with sharpening other tools. You may be right about this. I have long thought that working with chisels is the easiest way to learn basic Tormek skills. In my own case, I procrastinated for a long time before sharpening knives, even though I already had the knife jigs. Working with Steve Bottorff was what finally started me with knife sharpening.

I think several factors have made knife sharpening such a popular topic. First, we have more knife experts than any of the other topics. I was delighted to get Steve involved with the forum. Stig brings a lot of knife expertise. By his own statement, he is a knife and chisel sharpener. His extensive business travel schedule has precluded much posting, which is unfortunate. In addition to his own expertise, he has many contacts in the knife world, including Magnus.

We have a group, including yourself, of professional knife sharpeners. We have some very innovative and highly skilled members who have shared their expertise. This group goes back to Dutchman and also includes Herman, Jan, Wootz, Rick and many others. Knife sharpening on the forum has advanced considerably since members asked Jeff Farris basic questions. Our expectations have advanced as well. We now expect identical bevels instead of being just close, but very sharp.

I hope Tormek will add a second volume to the online handbook. The present handbook, written by Torgny Jansson, is invaluable. However, new techniques have not been included, only basic new jig information. A separate, more advanced volume online would share advances with more skilled users while not confusing beginners. We also desperately need a much more advanced video on knife work. Tormek had Jeff Farris do this for woodturners. It is excellent. Tormek had Alan Holtham do an excellent in depth video for the DBS-22 drill bit jig. Several shorter hunting knife videos are in editing. We need an in depth video exploring sharpening kitchen knives. If Tormek wants these videos to be all Tormek and have content control, Tormek must produce them. The knowledge is there. They have expert staff and a fine new teaching, shooting facility. All that is needed is the video.

I look forward to seeing how we continue to evolve.

Ken

[Sharpco]

Thank you, Ken. 

[Ken S]

You are very welcome, Sharpco. Keep thinking and keep posting!

Ken

[cbwx34]

I don't mind in any way, I wish Tormek could make a thick knife jig. Because there are many knives thicker than 2.2mm in the world. 

As a stop gap, maybe Tormek could come out with a "thick knives" jig... but all I'm saying is, as a final solution, I wouldn't want it to be shims.  Also, a "self centering" clamp will adapt to more than just knife thickness.

My opinion only:

I believe the Tormek knife jigs are designed for sharpening typical European style kitchen knives. They also seem to be optimized for a range from a paring knife around 90mm to a chef's knife at 200mm. As already noted, they seem to be designed to work optimally with knives around 2.2 mm thick.
...

I think this too.

I was actually a bit surprised when they came out with the "Bushcraft" T-4... that they included that Mora knife.  Definitely a different style, and requires a little different method to setup and sharpen.  (But I don't recall it ever being demonstrated).

Honestly, (I need to build one to see if there's a downside I'm missing), the more I think about it, especially in light of Y-Not's recent thread, if I was sharpening a variety of knife shapes/thicknesses/etc., the platform jig (Homemade Knife Rest) would appear to be the best solution... (the alternative... sharpening freehand).  There are a lot of advantages to it.

[RickKrung]

I hope Tormek will add a second volume to the online handbook. The present handbook, written by Torgny Jansson, is invaluable. However, new techniques have not been included, only basic new jig information. A separate, more advanced volume online would share advances with more skilled users while not confusing beginners. We also desperately need a much more advanced video on knife work. Tormek had Jeff Farris do this for woodturners. It is excellent. Tormek had Alan Holtham do an excellent in depth video for the DBS-22 drill bit jig. Several shorter hunting knife videos are in editing. We need an in depth video exploring sharpening kitchen knives. If Tormek wants these videos to be all Tormek and have content control, Tormek must produce them. The knowledge is there. They have expert staff and a fine new teaching, shooting facility. All that is needed is the video.

I look forward to seeing how we continue to evolve.

Ken

And one thing I think needs to be included in whatever might come out is a specific and direct discussion/demonstration of lifting the knife blade for maintaining the bevel along the curve/tip of knives.  I believe I have noted elsewhere that there is no mention of it in the Tormek manual knife section nor in any videos (I did a word search of the PDF manual and the only place lifting is mentioned is in the gouge section). 

It is there in the video, where the knife is lifted, but the novice watcher has to be make note of it on their own, without the why being explained.  I know I missed it for the longest time and is why I went off on the Pin Pivot Collar Clamp mod, until I realized the importance of lifting.  It didn't dawn on me until I watched Wootz's excellent video on his process for sharpening, but again, it was just done, not mentioned or explained (not that I'd expect that in his video, but do in Tormek's instructional material, written and visual). 

Rick

[Grizz]

Rick, I found this video from Jeff Farris where he does show how to lift the blade for the curve and tip. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYURcwkKGPs

[RickKrung]

Rick, I found this video from Jeff Farris where he does show how to lift the blade for the curve and tip. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYURcwkKGPs

Thank you.  I know I've seen that video several times.  I wonder why I thought the lifting wasn't covered. 

Rick

[Ken S]

Rick,

I find that I learn more from multiple readings or watchings. My brain seems to have a saturation limit (or just not enough RAM). It must be part of our homo sapien makeup.

Ken

[Y-Not]

And one thing I think needs to be included in whatever might come out is a specific and direct discussion/demonstration of lifting the knife blade for maintaining the bevel along the curve/tip of knives.

Rick

As a self-confessed newbie to the Tormek, the bevel was giving me fits.

I read the manual several times.  I've seen almost every video there is and the bevels near the tips were always noticeably wider than on the reset of the knife. I started scrambling and searching for other ways to get the edges and bevels.

I finally sat down with yet another cup of coffee, re-read the manual again and found that the jig placement in relation to the tip has a BIG influence on the width of the bevel at the tip. 

Too close to the handle and the tip bevel is much wider than the body.  Too close to the tip (further from the handle) and the tip bevel is much thinner than the body.  It's a test and trial method that'll be perfected with practice. I finally nailed it last night and found the right balance (location of the jig) to make my bevels consistent from tip to heal.

[cbwx34]

Jan created a template giving an idea for correctly setting the blade...

Knife Point Setting Template