Honing Wheel Wobble?

[Komitadjie]

Hey, just kind of a dumb question:  Is it normal for the leather honing wheel to wobble on the order of ~1/8" from side to side in use?  I was playing with a Tormek at Woodcraft in Seattle today, and noticed that its honing wheel did not do so.  I just figured it was normal.  Annoying, but normal.  Has anyone else noticed this?

[Ken S]

This is not a dumb question at all. The honing wheel has three alignment nubs which fit into the drive wheel. Try loosening the honing wheel and rotating it. Keep one hand on the honing wheel while rotating it and the other hand on the grinding wheel preventing it from turning. If the pins are not in their sockets, you will feel when they drop in. If you are very lucky, you can just retighten the honing wheel and be good to go. (Power cord is unplugged during these tests, of course.)

The drive wheel is aligned with the same pin and socket arrangement. Check it the same way.

This would be an opportune time to do the annual regreasing of the shaft bushings.

If these basic measures do not correct your situation, email Tormek support (support@tormek.se). Please keep posting whether your problem is quickly resolved or not.

Ken

[SharpenADullWitt]

Probably similar to many store displays.  Not assembled correctly due to time, safety issues (don't want things sticking out in aisles), or people playing with them.

[Ken S]

I understood the post to imply that his personal Tormek had the wobbly honing wheel and that the store demo unit did not. Is this correct, and were you able to correct the wobble?

SADW, unfortunately I must agree with you about the less than optimal condition of demo units in stores. Since my active tool buying days are long over, I do not frequent tool stores as I once did. When I do, I check out the Tormek displays but am usually oblivious to other power tool demo units. I would describe most of the store units I have seen as "neglected", as opposed to either printine or abused. I would consider purchasing a store demo unit, however, I would expect a discounted price compared with the price of a new, pristine unit. These demo units should clean up and function as new, however, if I have to do the cleanup, it seems fair to be compensated for my labor..

Ken

[Komitadjie]

You are correct, Ken.  My personal unit has the wobble, the store unit ran perfectly straight. 

No, I have not been thus far, but I *have* been able to identify the source.  The drive wheel appears to have been bored incorrectly.  The shaft is running perfectly true, at least to the naked eye.  My inspection method was simple but should be effective to within a few thousandths.  I put a laser-printed grid of very fine horizontal lines  on a .5mm spacing on the desk below it, and rested my chin on the corner of my laser case to watch it rotate against the background of the lines.  There was no visible displacement at all, so I would judge that the runout is less than .003 on the shaft.  I can get a more precise reading with my dial indicator if it becomes an issue.  The drive wheel, however, is displaying the exact same wobble as the honing wheel as it runs on the shaft.  Which leads me to believe that perhaps the shaft bore isn't cut perfectly perpendicular to the face of the drive wheel that the honing wheel rides on?

There is no variation in the wobble between each of the three possible orientations of the honing wheel, so I suspect the honing wheel is itself straight and true.  I'm actually working on a really simple solution right now, that I'll give a shot later this weekend:  I'm going to laser-cut some cardstock spacers to fit around the lugs on the honing wheel, and use them to counter the displacement on the drive wheel.  Should just artificially square it with the drive shaft. 

[Ken S]

I read through your prior posts. Just to make sure I have the facts straight, are we talking about the T8? Or, if we are talking about a T7, it should be under the 7+3 year warranty. Or, if you happen to have two Tormeks, does the wobble follow if you swap drive wheels and/or honing wheels.

If your Tormek is under warranty, Tormek should repair or replace the problem part(s). I suggest you contact Tormek support (support@tormek.se) or your national importer. You can find that information on Tormek's website.

You seem like you have some machine shop background. If you have a dial indicator and place it on your shaft, it will tell the tale if your shaft is bent. If your T8 fell with enough force to chip the grinding wheel, it might have bent the shaft, also.

Do contact support, and do keep us posted.

Ken

[Komitadjie]

We are indeed talking a T8, purchased as a "Like New Open Box" from Amazon.  The stone showed no sign that it had ever been mounted on the shaft, and the shaft still had the protective sleeve on it when I received the unit, so along with my quick check, I'm reasonably sure the shaft isn't bent.  I'll dial-indicator it this afternoon anyway, just to be sure.

I guess what I was doing with this thread is just establishing if I have something that's "normal and expected" from the unit, or if I'm looking at something I *should* contact support about.

Thanks, Ken!

[Ken S]

I would be very surprised if your shaft is bent. However, if you have a dial indicator and the skill to use it, you can easily rule out the shaft as a culprit......no doubts.

Tormek stands solidly behind its warranty. I have had personal one on one conversations with both Stig of Tormek and Rick of Affinity Tool, the US importer. Both were adament in their stalwart support of the Tormek  warranty. One of the things I value about Tormek is that the Tormek wet grinders are their only product. No metal lathes, drills or washing machines. As such, their success or failure depends on satisfied customers. They wisely realized that informed customers are satisfied customers. That is why they have the handbook, tech support, this forum, and videos.

Do not be shy about posting questions here or contacting support. Stig and his support team are eager to help. (support@tormek.se)

Ken

[Komitadjie]

Took a couple absolutely terrible videos, freehand cellphone, sorry, but they do show the wobble fairly well.  The one with the honing wheel has it oriented into the set of holes that wobble the least. 

https://youtu.be/ZEgZLmdecgY

https://youtu.be/Tmg9fHMhWuA

[Ken S]

The videos tell the tale. Contact support (support@tormek.se) to get the ball rolling.

I have not needed to use warranty repair service personally, however, I have discussed the procedure with both Stig and Rick of Affinity Tool, the US importer who normally handles repairs in my country.
I am quite confident Tormek will do right by you.

Keep us posted.

Ken

[Stickan]

Hi,
We have been in contact and we will sort this out of course.
In general an email to our support is always faster handeled than to be noticed by us on the Forum.

Best, Stig

[Ken S]

I agree with Stig. The forum is not a substitute for support.

Ken

[Komitadjie]

I most heartily agree, and if I was fully convinced from the outset that I actually had an out-of-standard condition, I would most likely have contacted them directly.  However, without knowing if that was actually something that's just normal operation (the part is stamped, after all, and stamped parts often have some degree of irregularity) I would have felt rather foolish contacting the formal support system.  That's one of the things I love about forums, you can run your questions off of guys with a lot more experience! 

The assistance I've received here, and speaking with Stig in the private messages, is moving toward resolving this in a most satisfactory way. 

I removed the drive wheel, washer, pin, and spring washer from the drive shaft this evening, and used my dial indicator to check the runout on the shaft while rotating it with a hand on the stone.  The shaft displayed a total gauge movement of less than .002", which I would say is within the error margin of my hand-spinning method and the cheap Chinese dial indicator.  The shaft, to my inspection, is entirely suitable for use.  Which leaves the drive wheel as the culprit, most likely.  I could easily take it to work and use the touch-probe CMM to find out the exact amount of non-perpendicularity in the central bore, but that's probably a bit deeper into the weeds than I really need to chase this rabbit.   

[grepper]

I've never seen Tormek make sloppy, out of spec parts.  They are much better machines than that.

If the shaft is not bent, then something is awry, or possible amiss, or maybe even askew!  I suppose it's possible that the wheel could be defective.  That happens even with the best of equipment, and if it is I'm sure Tormek will replace it.  Tormek always stands behind their machines. 

I know you have checked for the obvious, but obviously something is wrong.  That's a lot of wobble.  It sounds like the shaft is not bent, so, obviously, something is up with the wheel or the way it is seating on the shaft.

It will be interesting to hear what you discover.

[SharpenADullWitt]

Sorry, I swapped what you said in my brain earlier.
I will be interested to know what this is determined to be, as I would first be pulling it off to make sure it was on proper, or that there was no wobble from the motor pushing the wheel (highly unlikely, it would have to have not been screwed down I would think for that).  Then put the wheel on a flat surface to check it, and on and on to find the culprit.
Part of me is thinking, the sold Open Box like new, makes me wonder if it was in the original box, and if the box was damaged or dropped on that one side to affect the wheel. (damage or drop packaging and open to check the stone condition only)