Tormek AB's official response to disallowing vendor advertising.

[Rob]

Hi Stig

From time to time some passion gets generated on the subject of forum rules.  Would you be kind enough to spell out for the official record what the company position is with respect to vendors posting product or service commercials in posts or in signatures/avatars to posts on the forum please.

Personally, I have no interest in any other kind of rule, but this one always causes me frustration since I prefer a forum without 3rd party sales messages, like other forums.  I have no objection to Tormek product messages since you are the host and therefore as of right that is expected.

By the company taking an official posture we will all know where we stand.

Many thanks for your input.

Regards
Rob

[Stickan]

Rob,

The Tormek forum was created in order to facilitate the discussion of any aspect of the Tormek system, from how to use a particular jig or accessory to the best way to store and maintain the system.

From now on, the Tormek moderator will remove any topics and discussions that do not comply with this objective.

Regards
Stig

[Rob]

Many thanks Stig.  I think that's entirely reasonable, in that it should cover those postings that contribute nothing to discussion content, instead blatantly capitalise on the (highly targeted niche) Tormek base to sell goods or services at no cost to the advertiser.  I feel it important to emphasise that this in no way impugns the skill, knowledge, expertise or reputation of any individual or legal entity, it is a matter of principle.

[Elden]

   So from the above statements, the hand tool woodworking section will no longer be open to the type of discussion for which it was formed? It was formed to discuss hand tools that does not require use of electricity. Obviously the Tormek can't sharpen all hand tools. Is the discussion of these tools now banned? Are all previous "non conforming" posts going to be removed? Ouch. Are the posts that have shown pictures of items made, ie. turned wooden bowls etc., going to be removed as well?
   Stig (Tormek), please be careful in your decisions.

Thank you.

[Rob]

I think if you read the statement carefully you'll notice that Tormek have been extremely careful indeed.  Corporations don't publish statements without thinking them through and what Stig has documented allows Tormek a wide latitude in terms of discretion.

The way I interpret it is that Tormek are acknowledging the need for some level of control and therefore its right and proper to publish....simultaneously that the culture of this forum is, as we've discussed, very much self regulating and based on good manners so a heavy hand is entirely the wrong approach.

What's been published informs the forum that not everything is permissible and the right to veto exists but that its unlikely to be used except in rare circumstances.  Circumstances where posts might offend people.

Remember, just about all Internet chat rooms have a ban on politics, religion and commercial advertising.  The reason is simple, they cause offence, discord and argument.  Introducing very light touch, modest "guidance" is a perfectly reasonable and appropriate step.  Goodness me, where would society be if there weren't any rules!!! 

I think he's got it spot on myself, just the right tone and frankly, I'd be very surprised indeed if it gets over used. 99 times out of a 100, there's just no need.

[Rob]

Hand tools?  What like a.....bench plane, chisel, spokeshave, et al.  Each has a blade...which you sharpen on your Tormek...with jigs....could be barking up the wrong tree on this but isn't that what's meant by hand tools?

I think over time, members have just been posting hand tool related queries in the wrong sub forum (mostly in general which is what happens in every chat room I've ever been in).  There is some confusion possibly because a sticky was published that talks about the forum being for using hand tools, maybe that needs editing?

I think hand tool's is a term that became popular when the terms power tools and machine tools grew up to distinguish a power plane from a bench plane etc.  I understand a power tool to mean hand held battery or electric, machine tool to be none hand held and hand tool to mean no power at all.

[Ken S]

I think the new moderator statement is a good idea. After all, we have a new moderator.

Reading the statement carefully, it is wisely broad and ambiguous. it leaves the process of determining which posts are appropriate to the moderator, as has always been the case. Anything beyond the scope of the actual statement is the opinion of the poster.

Ken

[Rob]

Agreed....and just to draw attention to the scope, "any aspect of the Tormek system, jigs, accessories, maintenance ,storage etc" is clear and unambiguous.  Which for this forum is entirely appropriate.

[Herman Trivilino]

I think Stig's statement is consistent with the way this forum has always been moderated.

[Ken S]

I agree.

Ken

[Elden]

   I understand what you are saying fellows and trust you are correct. I was hoping that myself. As Ken said in a condensed version, "The statement is broad and ambiguous."
   Previously I have posted about sharpening a hand saw and also more recently on axes and other wood (timber) handling equipment. These were some of the types of posts I was referring to, as well as other's posts. The hand saw does not lend itself to the Tormek or its jigs, yet it is a handtool. The logging or wood handling information, for the most part, does not either. Hence the reason for my original questioning.

[Rob]

I feel pretty certain that Stig's intention is not to ride roughshod through the forum on a massive deletion exercise.

Lets not forget the origin of this without dragging it all back up, I raised this question because of an entirely legitimate concern over the use of the forum as a targeting ground for commercial propositions.  When logging onto this forum, I don't want to see product or service being advertised by a 3rd party, any 3rd party.  Those businesses have other means by which they can define and communicate their value propositions, it's called a website.  Forum members who wish to access their value propositions can freely do so using those means, just as we all do on a daily basis.  I remain 100% unapologetic about that stance because I believe it to be extremely important.  Further I believe that forum members are the primary beneficiaries of this for reasons already discussed.  I felt so strongly about it I wished to test the notion with Tormek AB directly, hence the question.  Their statement makes it crystal clear that they too do not wish 3rd party advertising on this forum.  Since I raised the question, I am happy to report I'm entirely satisfied with Tormek's response.  It's measured, balanced, responsible and clear and I'm extremely glad they feel it sufficiently important to comment. As I say, I've seem forums destroyed by being overrun with sales messages.

Lastly, also repeating myself, smart operators who wish to access the niche customers on forums like this take the time and trouble to engage in the discussions, they proffer intelligent comment and enhance the content and discussion, thereby naturally creating a quality track which people will follow and broadcast by word of mouth.  In such capacities do they tend to build their businesses.  I've seen that multiple times on much larger wood working forums where furniture school leaders operate, master turners and so forth.  They become well known and respected upon which good reputation they build trade which is all conducted off forum.  Entirely reasonable.

But to believe that Tormek's response to my plea of no advertising is nothing other than an endorsement is something I find very difficult to understand!

My last word on this is to repeat that I asked the question and I'm entirely happy with the response.

[Ken S]

Eldon,

I can't imagine the moderator having any problem with posts concerning saw sharpening. In fact, anyone using a Tormek in a sharpening business would benefit from knowing how to sharpen saws.

Ken

[SharpenADullWitt]

I would imagine a little leadway, aka the benefit of the doubt to be given.  After all going through some old  posts, when the forum appeared to be only one section, there were some things that Jeff would either recommend some other method (typically professional, from what I have read), or advise against it (high end barber sheers, or a circular slicer blade).

[Ken S]

It is just my  opinion, but I  think it in Tormek's best interest to keep the forum members here on the forum. The Tormek machines are designed for professional use. If a Tormek user who is a forum member needs help with sharpening something like saws, which Tormek does not sharpen, I say let that person be allowed to get  help here.The questions may be of general interest. And, Tormek AB benefits from learning about situations which effect its owners.

I don't think Tormek ever lost a sale because one its owners filed saws. Eldon, I encourage you to continue with your posts. You have the Popular Mechanics Home Workshop which, unfortunately, is becoming increasingly rare. Please continue sharing.

Ken