Cleavers

[Rob]

Herman,

Nice tool.  I've heard 50º.  25º per side.

Computer issues seem to be resolved!

On the strength of Kens advice some weeks ago I went ahead and bought Leonard Lee's (of Lee Valley Tools) classic book "The complete guide to sharpening".  I just happened to be perusing it while waiting for my kids at their swimming class.  It says of cleavers: a 50 degree included angle is about right assuming it will be chopping bone (chicken, ribs etc).  If only slicing flesh then a narrower angle is suitable.  In other words, any edge thats going to be subjected to a brutal amount of force (resistance) will hold its edge better if the angle is more obtuse.  But then we all already knew that Im pretty sure.

Note to Ken...its a great book...thanks for the heads up

[Jeff Farris]

On an Apple it is Option-zero.

[Ken S]

Rob, glad you like the book.  I regard Leonard Lee highly.  I think he has written a good book, and the accompanying VHS, now DVD, has both good information and good dry humor. IMHO, everyone on the forum should have copies of both Leonard Lee's book and Ron Hock's book in the personal library.

Jeff, since getting your computer working again, do you have the feeling you are not in Kansas (Missouri) any more.  The forum has a plethora of full and senior members, and they are busy posting....suggesting more work for you! It reminds me of Tevya'a line in Fiddler on the Roof, "I know we're the chosen people, but can't you choose someone else once in a while?"

Ken

[Rob]

LOL...what was the phrase from that movie...."build it and they will come"

Well....we're HEEERRRRRRREEEEEEE :-)

[Jeff Farris]

Well, to be honest, a core group of active members is what this forum has been trying to launch for years, even back when it was part of my company rather than Tormek. You guys are doing a great job, and taking quite a bit of weight off my shoulders. Several fundamental questions have been addressed correctly, leaving me to do the supervising instead of answering every single post.

[Ken S]

Jeff,

This forum reminds me of the sleepy little Ohio towns after fracking was discovered.  From time to time I look at the "more statistics".  Recently it seems like a tsunami has hit the stats.  Like you, I think this is exciting. 

I am one of the prime grumblers about the lack of good training materials. The videosvyou have done are quite good, but don't completely quench our thirst for knowledge.  I realize we are handicapped by living in an age when when the most complex mysteries are solved within an hour filled with commercial messages.  IMHO, the most effective training material should also be the simplest and most easily accessed. 

I have found the search engine only partially useful.  I think a more effective solution would be having a couple posts made like the welcome posts.  I would suggest one for Frequently Asked Questions and another for Less Frequently Asked Questions.  Things like grinding squarely, using the stone grader, and lifting the knife handle to form the tip bevel would be under FAQ.  Things like thinning the bolster on a knife, or cambering a plane blade might be under LFAQ. (Turning tools, Planer blades and maybe hand tools should have FAQ and LFAQ, also.)

My suggestion would be  to address specific issues in regular posts first.  Then, the relevant posts would be edited and combined into a clear answer.  (A nice touch would be to list the poster's name with the post.) 

I would suggest you, as forum administrator, be the one with permission to access, edit, and add to the issues. In addition to being the moderator, you have the respect of the forum as both an honest spokesman and someone who has spent a lot of time in the trenches. With "copy, paste" from good posts, the work involved should be minimum.

By having the FAQ and LFAQ posts appear below the welcome posts, they would be quickly and easily accessed by both members and the curious who are investigating whether or not to invest in a Tormek.  If I was looking, I would print them for my reference.  I could see them as being of great value in getting new members up to speed with avoiding most of the pot holes. 

Welcome to the brave new world........Oz may never be the same.

Ken

[Rob]

Interesting idea Ken.  Can I just take one step back and confirm from all concerned what problems we're trying to solve here...then we have criteria against which any solution design can be verified.  Dont think its a biggy but I do think its worth doing..as a base. 

1) Make helpful information accessible Quickly ie overcome the search problems
2) Make helpful information available in one place ie summarise the dispersed content into useful chunks
3) Make helpful information the best it can be ie edit from multiple sources to distill the best
4) Make the process of building this library an evolution not revolution so no individual is buried

Feel free to add in case Ive missed anything, Im not precious.

[Rob]

If those criteria make sense then how a new user gets to the content once they've landed on the forum home page is absolutely critical....there must be a top level sticky so there is no search required...it should be generic but within it is a subdivision (a contents essentially).  But the high level draws the eye of the new user.  The sub divisions should of course be useful bite size chunks.  Franky, one obvious category for each sub division (chapter) is simply the jig names.  Others would be Tormek specific like Ken suggested...grader, wheels, Universal support, honing etc.  Maybe like this:

Level 1 - Advice & Guidance for New Tormek Users

Chapter 1 - Tormek Fundamentals
topic 1 - the grinder
topic 2 - Trueing and dressing the stone
topic 3 - Grading the stone from 220 to 1000 grit and back
topic 4 - etc

Chapter 2- The most commonly used jigs and how to use them
topic 1 - the SE-76 Square edge jig
topic 2 - Angle master WM-200
topic 3 - Knife jig SVM-45

Again not precious about any content or layout etc here...just want to reinforce the point that whatever we come up with needs to be get-at-able without any thought on the part of the user.  It very definitely doesnt want to be buried anywhere.  In so doing we fail to meet fundamental criteria No 1...get at it quickly

Rob

[Herman Trivilino]

IMHO, everyone on the forum should have copies of both Leonard Lee's book and Ron Hock's book in the personal library.

After hearing you recommend these books I've decided to bite the bullet and order both of them.  I look forward to some good reading.

[Ken S]

Herman, I don't believe you will be disappointed.  While they both cover sharpening, they are enough different that I believe both are worthy of space in our active libraries.

After you have a chance to read through them, please post your thoughts.  It would be nice to hear more thoughts on them than those of that "ken s" guy.  (I know as much as he does, and that's not bragging.)

Ken

[Elden]

Wal-Mart has the Complete Guide to Sharpening for $14.79 available to ship to your local store. Not bad.
I'm not advertising, but if this is against the rules, Jeff feel free to pull it.

[Herman Trivilino]

It's about that same price from amazon.

[Elden]

I received Ron Hock's book The Perfect Edge today via eBay. Checked it to make sure it was in good shape before leaving feedback. As Herman said, it looks like it will be excellent reading material.

My wife said I really needed another book. I imagine you can just about hear the sarcasm in her voice. She said I have about 3 or 4 books that I'm reading now and have a"million" other books to read.
I told her, yes, but the last one that I got was read from stem to stern!  That was Steve Bottorff's book Sharpening Made Easy. That is another interesting book dealing mainly with knife sharpening.

Thanks, Ken for your recommendations on the The Perfect Edge and The Complete Guide to Sharpening. The latter is on the computer, but there's nothing quite like a book!

[Ken S]

Your wife is lucky to have such a literary spouse.......

I'm pleased you guys have found the recommended books useful.  While I believe in the value of hands on experience, I do believe we can shorted and deepen the learning experience by well written books, articles and videos.

Ken

[Herman Trivilino]

I'm about 2/3 of the way through this book, but have gone back to re-read the chapter on the metallurgy of steel.  Fascinating stuff.