Wheel questions on T1 vs T2

[staysupersharp]

Hi,

Beginning sharpener here. I'm curious about some other differences in the T1 and T2:

• What is the pros/cons of a conical wheel vs cylindrical wheel?
• Does the T1 have other wheel options like the T2?
• Are there benefits to wetting the diamond stone like you typically would with T4 or any whetstone?

Thanks,
Stay Sharp

[cbwx34]

Hi,

Beginning sharpener here. I'm curious about some other differences in the T1 and T2:

• What is the pros/cons of a conical wheel vs cylindrical wheel?
• Does the T1 have other wheel options like the T2?
• Are there benefits to wetting the diamond stone like you typically would with T4 or any whetstone?

Thanks,
Stay Sharp

I'm going to quote this from Sharpening Supplies, since I pretty much agree with it.

A. The T-1 Kitchen Knife Sharpener is designed for home use while the T-2 Pro Kitchen Knife Sharpener is designed for commercial use. They are both quality Swedish made machines, the T-1 is more compact and features an easy to use conical diamond wheel. The T-2 is designed for commercial kitchens and is certified for commercial use.

I think "conical vs. cylindrical" is a design feature with no real advantage per se.  But you do get more surface area on the T-2 wheel, plus I think it has diamond on the side now, so you could do some freehand sharpening or repairs.

I don't think there's any wheel options for the T-1 at this time.

Biggest advantage to wetting the stone would be reducing "dust".  2nd would be cooling.

I consider both the T-1 and T-2 "specialized" sharpeners... designed for a specific purpose with somewhat limited functions.  The T-4 overall would be a better choice for most.  You can do more with it, and there's more options available.

[Ken S]

"I consider both the T-1 and T-2 "specialized" sharpeners... designed for a specific purpose with somewhat limited functions.  The T-4 overall would be a better choice for most.  You can do more with it, and there's more options available."

I don't disagree with the T4 being able to do more. My question is, do we want or need the "more" that the T4 can do? For someone who actually sharpens woodworking, turning, or carving tools, the T4 is the no brainer choice. for someone who plans to sharpen only his kitchen knives, the "more" seems wasted to me. For someone who only sharpens kitchen knives, I think the simple knife jig on the T1/2 is ideal.

The home cook/sharpener should not need any grinding wheels beyond the DF-200. once your knives are sharpened initially, just maintain them. Your cooking will improve.

Ken 

[cbwx34]

...
My question is, do we want or need the "more" that the T4 can do?
...

ABSOLUTELY!

In all seriousness, I think unless your needs are very specific, and you know you won't do anything else, the T-4 should be considered.

[tgbto]

I'd wholeheartedly second what @cbwx34 wrote. I'd ask the questions "are the limitations imposed by the T1/T2 worth the reduced footprint or price (for T-1)". Wetting the stone allows for dust and cooling, but also for reducing friction which can decrease the wheel's life expectancy. To be fair, one should add a US-430 to the T-4 price to be set for all knife types.

The T-4 with a diamond wheel can always be used dry if water is a problem. You can easily upgrade to sharpen scissors.

[Ken S]

I think some of these well intentioned comments might be considered "based on facts not in evidence" on the TV crime shows. following them to their (il)logical conclusions, the only logical candidate would be a T8. That way, the user would be prepared to handle a busy sharpening business specializing in larger diameter drill bits or large thickness planer blades.

Getting back to the original questions, what is the projected real world use for the poster's Tormek? This should match the intended target market for the model. If the user intends to open a sharpening service, the T8 is the logical choice. A restaurant chef would be well served by a T2, which also includes the option of changing to the more coarse DC-200 wheel for neglected or abused wheels. The T1 is designed for the home cook. While the home cook would probably not be sharpening a high number of knives, I think it is safe to presume that he would not allow his edges to deteriorate beyond the touch up capabilities of the standard grinding wheel. Therefore, there would be no need for other grinding wheels.

I have never read a warning from Tormek that using the T4 or T8 wet may reduce the life expectancy of any grinding wheels, diamond or otherwise. I believe changing the wheel orientation of the T1 wheel was to facilitate a smaller footprint, rather than for any sharpening purposes.

In the spirit of being fair, there is no need of a US-430 with either the T2 or T1. The clamp of the knife jig does not move from side to side.

This is an unusual position for me. Ever since the introduction of the T4, I have been the most vocal advocate for the zt4 on the forum. I still feel that way; however, I believe choices should be made on realistic use expctations.

Ken

[cbwx34]

A person who identifies as, "Beginning sharpener here", should be presented with the idea that the T-4 may be a better option. I'm sure that many beginning sharpeners start out thinking, "I just want my kitchen knives sharp", only to realize that once they get started, there are other things around the house that they might like to make sharp, or do more than what the T-2, or especially the T-1, might be capable of.

BTW, I was just looking at prices... I didn't realize that for the price of a T-2, you can get a T-4 + diamond wheel for only $20 more.  (And some are offering a free KJ-45 to boot.)  Another factor to consider.

I think some of these well intentioned comments might be considered "based on facts not in evidence" on the TV crime shows. following them to their (il)logical conclusions, the only logical candidate would be a T8. That way, the user would be prepared to handle a busy sharpening business specializing in larger diameter drill bits or large thickness planer blades.
...
Ken

Nowhere did I say, don't get the T-1 or T-2, get the T-4.  I merely presented it as an option, and the reasons why.  So, no conclusion, logical or illogical, should be inferred.  That would be an illogical conclusion.    (Your jump to a T-8 was a bit much.)

[tgbto]

In the spirit of being fair, there is no need of a US-430 with either the T2 or T1. The clamp of the knife jig does not move from side to side.

Now I present as *evidence* the part of my comment where I precisely said that in fairness one should add it to the T-4.

I would also add to the evidence docket the OP's initial post where there was no mention of the OP having a restaurant business.

Finally, I present my apologies to the court for writing :

Wetting the stone allows for dust and cooling, but also for reducing friction which can decrease the wheel's life expectancy.

The reduction in life expectancy being attributed to friction, not to reducing friction. My bad (english).

One should also note that if a DC-200 is to be added to the lineup, then a SG-200 which can be graded coarse has even more financial interest.

And if I may, if one has plenty of real estate for the equipment, yes, I believe any knife sharpener would see an increased interest in the T-8 compared to the T-4 because of the small price difference all things (and accessories) considered. That is an opinion though, as I believe the OP asked for...

[Ken S]

Stay Sharp,

I believe you are seeing one of the strong points of this forum, we can share differing opinions civilly. you are wise to obtain differing, all well meant, opinions before making your personal decision as to which way to invest in a Tormek. We all bring varying life experiences to this forum, some of which may closely fit your needs, and some of which may not. I encourage you to keep asking questions about things you don't feel that you understand. Any of the Tormek models represents an investment.

We are here to help, and we have all been beginners.

Ken

[MikeR]

Hi all,

A forum newbie here. Very timely discussion for me - trying to decide which machine to get. To make long story short, it comes down to T4 vs. T1. Tough decision.

I've been a student of knife sharpening for over a decade now. Good news is that I enjoy learning the art of sharpening. Bad news - practicing the art gets the family spoiled. They are no longer willing to accept a quick and dirty job on kitchen knifes. You get smirks... But you don't always have time to do it right... I have a feeling people here may know what I mean.

This brings me to looking for a machine to get. What I want is to quickly reestablish proper flat bevel after rounds of maintenance. Once the bevel is set, I can finish it off by hand quickly. Fixing badly damaged edges is not an issue for me, it just never happens.

T1 seems like the ticket. Designed for just that, small, good-enough looking for kitchen counter... But there's an issue that bothers me. In manual sharpening I would not even think about honing after 600 grit diamond. I'd do 900 and 1200 diamonds first, then at least 1-2 ceramic plates lapped to 2000-3000. Only then I'd hone on leather.

But that's manual. Having no experience with sharpening machines, I wonder maybe it works if you just keep honing? Also, how T1 composite honing wheel compares to lapping on leather impregnated with oil and green polishing compound? I assume it's rougher, but how much rougher?

Thoughts and advice much appreciated!

MikeR

[cbwx34]

...
This brings me to looking for a machine to get. What I want is to quickly reestablish proper flat bevel after rounds of maintenance. Once the bevel is set, I can finish it off by hand quickly. Fixing badly damaged edges is not an issue for me, it just never happens.

T1 seems like the ticket. Designed for just that, small, good-enough looking for kitchen counter... But there's an issue that bothers me. In manual sharpening I would not even think about honing after 600 grit diamond. I'd do 900 and 1200 diamonds first, then at least 1-2 ceramic plates lapped to 2000-3000. Only then I'd hone on leather.
...

I guess I don't understand this part.  If you just want something to reestablish a bevel, why does finish level matter?     (But, in my opinion, a deburred  600g finish is more than adequate for a kitchen knife, unless you have a special use case.)

My .02 on your other question though, if you have a decade of experience, (unlike the OP), you're more likely to know whether or not you "need more" in the T1 vs the T-4.  If all you want is to reestablish a bevel and you seem sure you're not fixing damage, etc... provided that the guide on the T-1 will accommodate your knives, it should suffice.

[John Hancock Sr]

Hi,

Beginning sharpener here. I'm curious about some other differences in the T1 and T2:

• What is the pros/cons of a conical wheel vs cylindrical wheel?
• Does the T1 have other wheel options like the T2?
• Are there benefits to wetting the diamond stone like you typically would with T4 or any whetstone?

Thanks,
Stay Sharp

My 2 penneth worth ...

In order;
The only difference in the wheel shape is due to the "jig" design of the T1. In essence the T1 is a single purpose jig designed all in one to perform knife sharpening. It is aimed squarely at kitchens to sit on the bench and sharpen knived quickly and effectively. Using the T1 you can bring a dull knofe back to sharp in seconds.

No other wheel options - just the one. As I said above it is an all in one "knife jig".

Yes, wetting the stone would help extend the life and reduce the dust but you need to be careful since it will rust. You can use anti rust agent in the water but it becomes messy. To be blunt I would not really bother. It is designed to run dry so that is how I would use it.

As others have said if you want to *only* do knife re-sharpening then get the T1. If you see yourself doing other types of sharpening and need a more general purpose machine *or* using it for a business then consider the T4 (personal use) T8 (pro or semi pro use).

[MikeR]

Thanks, cbwx. You're right, T1 would do the bare minimum I want it to do. It feels like a straight jacket though, zero customizations. Would be nice to have flexibility to do more. Hence, my question about honing on the composite disk. Also, saw your nice post on limitations of the T1/T2 jig.

Maybe I'm just trying to justify spending 3 times more on a T4, a couple of CBT disks and some cool jigs.

As far as honed 600g being enough for kitchen... I don't disagree, but afraid my significant other does. It 's no longer about function, as in cutting ripe tomato. It's about pleasure of cutting it not even feeling that it's there... That's my special case

P.S. Nicks may happen, but it's too rare to justify a fancy machine. If it happens like once a year, I'll fix it on a diamond plate. Need a better cause.

[tgbto]

I think if honed 600g is not considered enough for you, then a T-4/T-8 is clearly the way to go. The beauty of the Tormek lies - in my opinion - in maintainting a consistent angle throughout and therefore giving quality results quickly. If you need to lap on a few benchstones afterwards, the benefit of the Tormek is kinda lost....

[Ken S]

How much are we willing to pay chasing performance? I do not wish to take sides on this issue. I would suggest that we set a point on our sharpness scale. I have watched Stig do very adequate knife and chisel sharpening using the standard equipment, traditional three step Tormek technique. The tomato did not complain. I consider this an excellent starting point. If we wish, we can certainly add things like the SJ and multiple honing devices. I am not saying that there is anything wrong with this as long as we realize we are accelerating our costs while moving the sharpness needle by varying amounts from adequate.

As a consumer, I think it is fair to ask how much I am willing to pay to have my Victorinox $40 knife sharpened, and how much sharpness and durability  should reasonably expect.

As a sharpener, I should ask how much product I should reasonably be expected to deliver at various price points.

There are many points to resolve.

Ken