Carrying case for T8??

[TireguyfromMA]

I was wondering if any of you ever have to haul your T7 or T8 to shows, demos or farmers markets, and if you put it in a carrying case?   I've been invited (asked) to set up a knife sharpening stand at a couple of the local farmers markets.  I'm thinking one of the 22" pac-out cases by Milwaukee, DeWalt or HUSKY at Home Depot but I thought I'd ask if anyone is utilizing a carrying case already that is working good. I'm thinking the T8 would fit in one of the cases with some strategically place foam inserts to prevent it from moving around and maybe a wheel.   Any thoughts or experience hauling your TORMEK around?

[BeSharp]

I use a Tanos/Festool Systainer SYS3 M337 case, and a XXL337 case for my paper wheel buffer. All the boxes interlock and serve double duty as signage holders.

[RickKrung]

I use two type of containers for hauling my kit, and sometimes I take everything. 

1) Plastic milk crates, for T8 and grinding wheels, and


2) Clamshell top totes for jigs and accessories.


My T8 fits well within the plastic milk crates, but with the honing wheel on, stick up above the top.  Grinding wheels are layed flat with hand towels between them.  SG, SB, SJ, standard grinding wheel and rock hard felt in one, diamond wheels in the other.  These can be stacked.  The fit of all of these is close enough that no further packing or cushioning materials are needed. 


Other gear, jigs, BESS tester, motorized truing tool, accessories, anti-corrosion bottles, go into two or three of the clamshell totes, which also stack. 

All of this fills up the back of my SUV car and I've hauled this load to friends places when visiting so that I could sharpen their tools, etc.  The plastic milk crates can be difficult to find.  Six years ago, when I was getting ready to move, I score 24 of them for $2 each at a "rebuilding" (use materials) supply house.  They worked extremely well for small heavy stuff like a lot of my machining tools and materials.  Still use them extensively for storage, as witnessed by the red one on the shelf behind the other stuff in one of the photos below, as well as another clamshell tote box. 

Rick

[TireguyfromMA]

Rick,

Thanks for all the ideas and the pictures are a big help too.  I still have the box from TORMEK with the top and bottom shipping styrofoam inserts.  I might take the box to HomeDepot or Lowes with me to see if I can fit the box inside one of the DeWalt or Milwaukee pack out cases.  I'll probably just take the SB-250, SJ-250 wheels, the knife fixture and scissors fixture with me.  I also have to bring a 10x10 tent canopy, card table, 50ft extension cord and chair....ugh

[Ken S]

Tireguy,

Do you really want to bring your SJ-250 to a farmers market set up? That's a lot of wheel changing and grinding time per knife. It's nice if you can command a premium price for your work, but not really necessary.
(Think light pressure on the final passes.)

Ken

[RickKrung]

Tireguy,

Do you really want to bring your SJ-250 to a farmers market set up? That's a lot of wheel changing and grinding time per knife. It's nice if you can command a premium price for your work, but not really necessary.
(Think light pressure on the final passes.)

Ken

Interesting quandary.  Speed vs wheel changes vs quality of bevel/finish/sharpness, etc. 

The one season I did a couple of farmers markets, I did bring all of my wheels and used most, including the SJ.  Through my own fault, I had what seemed at the time as a disastrous accident where my SJ wheel fell of the folding table and got severely cracked.  I posted about it here.  Since, the SJ wheel has closed up and I continue to use it. 

But, more to the point, I sort of agree with Ken in that having to do wheel changes adds considerably to the time required.  Doing very much of it at a farmers market really kills profitability.  I recall my first exposure to Tormek, by a mobile sharpener who used only the SG wheel and the then standard leather honing wheel.  I was perfectly happy and actually quite impressed with the result. 

However, given my inclination towards quality and thus multiple wheels, I could not bring myself to do it with just one stone and I believe that was my demise in attempts to work farmers markets.  I won't do them anymore. 

To be successful, I think one needs to simplify their process as much as possible.  I didn't have at the time my Viel belt grinder, but wish I had as it would have served well for repairing and establishing very dull bevels quickly and allow the use of just one stone wheel to do the sharpening. I also posted about what it took for me to set up the Viel for use with Tormek jigs.  It was substantial and didn't happen for a year after I tried doing farmers markets. 

Rick

[BeSharp]

IMHO, the Tormek, by itself, is too slow to make any decent money at Farmers
Markets. But I've done it last two summers, and just signed up for this season.

I averaged 6 knives per hour. Multiply $/knife by number of hours there, add booth rental, then divide by market hours PLUS packing up at home (1 hour?), PLUS setting up (1 hour), PLUS teardown (40 minutes), PLUS re-setting up at home (1 hour). Then you can decide whether the $/hour is worth it.

Last year, tired of lugging 300 pounds of equipment every week, I changed tactics. I encouraged clients leave knives for me to sharpen the next day at home, then have them come by to pick them up. My overall sales doubled.

Hence my interest in Vadim's latest videos. In video: "Our New Commercial Setup - 22 Knives Per Hour" https://youtu.be/KZ-1bFgsyRs , Vadim claims 22 knives per hour. I have been unable to replicate that in farmers market conditions, because most knives there are REALLY, REALLY DULL. In Vadim's video, he is sharpening meat plant knives after a day of use that average 214 BESS: (http://knifegrinders.com.au/17ProprietaryEdge.htm).

Therefore, the more applicable technique would be "Combining Grinder and Tormek" video,  https://youtu.be/JTs6wU8KmJk where he combines a Tormek with a half speed buffer. That was also my setup the last two summers.

This summer, I will by grinding with a 400 rpm dry grinder with a Festool vacumn. Very dull blades knives now take only 7-8 minutes (thanks to 80 and 160 grit CBN wheels!)

I strongly suggest getting a 1" x 42" belt sander (ideally a Viel S5 and the scissors attachment) to sharpen garden pruners, loppers, and shears. Garden pruners takes one minute and I charge the same as sharpening a kitchen knife.

Nobody will appreciate a SJ stone at a Farmers Market.

[TireguyfromMA]

I agree with all of your thoughts.  You can't go to one of these markets and expect to make money.  It's more about getting out there and building a perspective customer base, they kinda like to meet the person they are intrusting their knives to.  The packing up, set up and tear down time, the unpacking, all big time and money killers.   I won't actually be sharpening knives for people there, but I think I should at least show them the features of the T8, why it's so much better than the person in town that just does a knife by hand on a high speed bench grinder with a fine wheel on it.  I'm not kidding...lol, theres a guy in town with a shop that advertises "knife sharpening" and that's how he does it.  Ruins knives!    I'll have the T8 set up on a table just so they can see I use a professional machine, let them feel how smooth the stone is, how the water cooling works, and show them how the jigs are designed to hold the knives at a precise angle. I think once they see all that they will be ready to drop knives off.

[BeSharp]

I agree, showcase why you're better because of the Tormek. In my second year I learned to work at the very front edge of my booth. Being at the very front makes eye contact and chatting easy. In the first year my equipment was in the middle of the booth - bad mistake. And face them! Never have your back to your customers.

Of course, the Tormek, being so quiet, makes it easy to have a conversation without having to shout. The two questions I was repeatedly asked were:

1) What is the water for?
2) Why are you grinding into the stone? Isn't grinding away from it better?

[cbwx34]

...
You can't go to one of these markets and expect to make money.
...

Pretty sure SteveB made a living at farmer's markets... if you're serious about pursuing this, visit his website, and/or consider purchasing his Sharpening School Video.

[Ken S]

I disagree with the statement about not being able to make money sharpening at a farmers market. I do not sharpen professionally; however, Steve and I both live in Ohio and have been friends for many years. Steve has been a mentor to me. He made a very nice side income for many years sharpening knives. He has generously shared his knowledge and experience with both his individual training classes and, in retirement, with his excellent Sharpening School DVD.
Everyone contemplating operating a sharpening business should purchase his DVD. It is practical "from the trenches" experience based information.

I also disagree with implications that unless a knife is sharpened with the 4000 grit SJ wheel it is not sharp. A knife skillfully sharpened with the traditional Tormek three step technique is quite sharp. Will adding steps such as the SJ and multiple honing procedures improve this sharpness? Of course, but only with an increase of invested capital and considerably longer sharpening time. Given the choice of a very sharp knife at a reasonable sharpening price or an nth degree sharp knife at a much higher sharpening price, how many customers will opt for the latter? I see a lot more Fords and Chevys on the road than Mercedes.

Ken

[TireguyfromMA]

I guess the way I should have said it is, I expect to make money from the perspective customers I meet at the market afterward, not so much while I'm there showing them the features (repeatability of precise angle, water cooled 1000 grit stone) of the T8.  My thinking is I'm going to be doing a fair amount of talking while there greeting people, mixed in with demonstrating how the T8 works?  You guys have been doing this a LOT longer than me as well as having actual experience at farmers markets.  Do you keep stopping while sharpening a knife when someone steps up and asks you questions?  I'd have a hard time stopping, breaking momentum, answering a question or saying "hello", and then picking up where I left off.

[BeSharp]

My thinking is I'm going to be doing a fair amount of talking while there greeting people, mixed in with demonstrating how the T8 works?  You guys have been doing this a LOT longer than me as well as having actual experience at farmers markets.  Do you keep stopping while sharpening a knife when someone steps up and asks you questions?  I'd have a hard time stopping, breaking momentum, answering a question or saying "hello", and then picking up where I left off.

Yes, you should be doing a lot of talking. That's why I averaged only 6 knives an hour - that stat includes talking, writing up orders, taking payments, etc.

Being at the very front means you can sense when someone is interested. I can say "hello" without stopping, but answer questions between passes.

[capt rich]

 I took my wifes collapsable milk crate. Think home depot or amazon.