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Has anyone any hands on with the DBS-22?  I was flirting with the idea of getting one as I do get frustrated at blunt bits and currently just buy more. Trouble is its very expensive and I'd have to go through a lot of drills before it cost justified itself.

People talk about the drill doctor a lot, any comparison type views?

I've not heard that done with the Tormek but my guess would be that the relatively new drill sharpening jig might be the place to start. I know it's primary purpose is to create a four facet point for wood drilling. Masonry bits have extremely hard tips don't they (tungsten carbide???). That's gunna be a pig to sharpen on the regular stone. 

Feel free to jump in any time experts.....I'm really clutching at straws here in an attempt to respond to this chap

Lets just get a little perspective here. All my little ironic/sarcastic/satirical/lampooning comment (however one chooses to define it) was aiming to do was bring a little much needed levity to a topic that IMO folks are at risk of over analysing.

I'm with Jeff and Herman on this....the fact is the Tormek works to a standard the vast majority of people are not just satisfied but absolutely delighted with.  After a while, the somewhat dogmatic arguments to the contrary suggest the poster may have a different agenda ( like they work for a competitor).

To reiterate Jeff's experience, he's sharpened thousands of people's knives at exhibitions etc where their agenda was to deliberately trip him up....and they were converts to the Tormek.  It works.  End of.

Aye, you're right Jeff. However holding the gouge with the jig clamped to it really isn't a biggy.  Maybe when you next do a bowl give it a whirl and see what you think.  It works great for me :-). Nice talking to you

From what Ric has written I think he is not rocking the jig on its axis, but is shifting it laterally. That is what I most commonly see when someone says "the angle gets wider at the tip".

To be specific, this was the point my comment was reinforcing.  IMO folks will improve their results by recognising one fundamental truth which is that the jigs don't replace skill and craftsmanship.  Technique and practice are every bit as important.  Even a jig with a lets face it teensy weensy flaw will still perform perfectly adequately in capable hands.

I can save everyone a lot of time and energy on this topic.......do EXACTLY as Jeff suggests in both his videos and also following his comments. Don't " think" you have a better way etc, just blindly follow the instructions and stop thinking.

Although i don't actually really agree with this rather narrow approach, this case renders it a bit pointless seeing as the original poster is having trouble caused by a known flaw in the jig.

I refer specifically to the issue of how to raise the curved end bit of the blade....this is where Jeff's techniques score dividends.  My point didn't address the non centred jig issue and wasn't intended to. I guess the proper solution to that is an improvement request to the Tormek R&D folks. I was simply stressing that whilst maybe not technically perfect, despite the jig flaw, Jeff's methods when practiced properly are good enough for practical purposes

That's an interesting idea. It seems to me it would be in the way, but I've never tried it.

Just one point to add to the whole issue of getting the piece round. Run your lathe as fast as possible without vibration. By that I mean if you have variable speed, dial the speed up until you get vibration, then back it off a little. You want to minimize the time that there is a gap between contact with the stock and no contact. The faster the piece is turning, the less likely your tool will creep too far forward into the space.

Thanks for the response Jeff. I agree re vibration, my lathe is a variable speed and I do exactly as you describe to balance speed and safety.

I also thought the gouge jig would catch on the tool rest but thought what the heck, tried it, and to my surprise it worked for the most part. As I mentioned it comes undone as you sweep under and have the gouge protrude a long way beyond the rest.  But when I say ten seconds I really mean it literally. Because the edge is only just off sharp anyway, literally 3 or 4 passes on the tormek has it true again. It's the installing of the jig (on the gouge) and the universal support setup that takes all the time and not the actual grinding.  Because this approach makes those two steps redundant, the grinding time is negligible.

I'm straight back on the lathe and you get that sweet feel of a sharp tool slicing the fibres again. I guess the principle is little and often.  Because the time "burden" is removed you're actually motivated to sharpen more often.  I'm so confident in the technique I would challenge any hand/dry grinding approach where judgement was based on time to get back turning and quality of single facet bevel

Hi folks

Thought I'd share a big time saver at the lathe.

It's for roughing of either between centre spindles or bowls.  We all know that those first few cuts are the most brutal on the tools, whether its the square edges ( or bark) of a spindle or the bandsaw'd or chainsaw'd bowl blank.  The stock is all over the place, lathe at slowest speed for safety, it's just ugly!  Those edges sure take a pounding.

My method is a short cut extraordinaire.  You set the tormek up for your favourite starting point bowl gouge (or roughing spindle gouge depending on what you're turning ). I have the tormek on a table literally one foot to the right of my tailstock.  I insert the gouge in the jig which for roughing bowls for me is the 65mm projection hole A JS 2 grind ie regular.  Nothing fancy for roughing out. 

I start turning. Bang bang. Slap of some hard corner and the edge goes off the boil.  Now turn back to the tormek, jig up and sharpen again, this time I leave the jig clamped to the gouge.  There's enough room in front of the jig to accommodate my gouge on the tool rest, in fact the additional "handles" gives me more control of the gouge.  I turn some more, back on the tormek etc. I roll the edge about four times on 1000 grit, don't bother to hone as for roughing that edge is easily sharp enough.  I've timed it and its literally ten seconds.  I don't even turn the lathe off!

Purists will say, hone etc....remember this is roughing out, aim is shape and fast stock removal safely.  I now spend virtually no time sharpening and all turning.  I take it out of the jig when the articulated collar starts to restrict movement by hitting the tool rest.  That tends to happen as you come right round the base of a bowl before reversing it ie anywhere the gouge is a long way over the tool rest

This method will have you turning not sharpening.  It's akin to the speed of hand grinders on dry wheels but with all the advantages of the tormek ie perfect bevels every time with no risk of drawing the temper of the steel.

Here's Jeff demonstrating/instructing use of the knife jigs. Move to 4m:40s point, does this answer your question?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYURcwkKGPs
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This knife jig topic comes up quite frequently. My experience when I hit the same roadblock was to review Jeff's video demo very carefully and then practice a lot. Frankly, it worked. I can save everyone a lot of time and energy on this topic.......do EXACTLY as Jeff suggests in both his videos and also following his comments. Don't " think" you have a better way etc, just blindly follow the instructions and stop thinking. Practice this, then practice again, then do it some more....and again.  You'll know when to stop because your knives will have easily good enough bevel consistency and they will be dam sharp.   What I'm trying to say is just have faith in Jeff's method instead of trying to reinvent all the time. There's nothing wrong with exploring new ways of course, I'm simply advocating learning and mastering Jeff's method FIRST. Then move into possible innovation and improvement of your own design. This is what I did.....and it truly works

As a footnote, I now sharpen all but my expensive knives freehand....guess what....they're easily good enough and a billion miles better than all my friends and neighbours.   When it comes to my Japanese jobs, I get the jig out ( don't care how its defined, I care if it works), I practice on two or so cheapies to "re-load" the muscle memory and......grind away....guess what.....it works.

I love wooden cutting boards.  Having the board the right height makes an incredible difference in comfort.  It's worth taking the time to get the height right.


Ah, chopping boards....at the (considerable) risk of meandering off topic again, I absolutely love wooden chopping boards too :-). In fact, my father was a teacher many years ago and he once "recycled" a science bench from a school and made our family kitchen table from which we scoffed meals for a good 20 years. That world has now given way to my own family and I took the liberty of recycling Dads table (respectfully disposing of the yellow Formica covering!!!) into the biggest bread board you've ever seen. It is a custom fit on my breakfast bar, perfectly nestling between hob top and the end of the bar. I now have a 3'x2' veritable chopping "airstrip" of sumptuous beech which has a family provenance dating back nearly 40 years.  There's chopping boards and CHOPPING boards :-)

I'll shut up now

Hi Justin

Ordinarily I grind kitchen knives freehand, on this occasion I used the short knife jig just to be certain I had as much control as possible.  (Again out of respect for the cost of global knives) I ground in the upright position ie towards the edge which is the more aggressive position. However as I mentioned in my previous, I had dressed and 1000 gritted the stone so it was as "gentle" as it could be. I also go really easy on the hand pressure and it just slices uniformly over the stone. I use Jeff's video tips and watch the water "wave" on the bevel to tell me if I've got the raising angle correct as I approach the curved tip of the knife. That part was always hair raising when I first bought the Tormek. It's a really useful tip and works every time.

Ironically, having digested these threads, with hindsight, I will try away fon the edge next time given its an even more controlled method. I'm just used to doing knives in the upright position and I guess I was trying to minimise variables that might cause problems. I grind all my turning tools away from the edge, surprised I didn't think of it in fact. I guess that's the beauty of these discussions :-)

Happy new year all. Just to add to the debate re knives, I was lucky enough to get a set of Global knives at Christmas.  Boy....what an edge....I can slice tomatoes with just the weight of the knife and they're seriously light and well balanced.  I was a little worried about grinding them as I didn't want to cock it up given the staggering price tag they carry.  The edge has definitely lasted longer than an el cheapo but eventually I bit the bullet and fired up the big T. I decided to try a 15 degree bevel given the quality of the steel and very carefully ground the first side after dressing the stone (and grading to 1000 grit).  It left a superbly well defined and uniform bevel.  Just to monitor progress mid grind so to speak, I tested the edge without grinding the other side or honing......it sliced through paper like.....a very sharp knife indeed!  So I left it, on the assumption of if it ain't broke don't fix it. I guess, completing the process would have the edge last longer, but I'm now two weeks on with a truck load of chopped veg behind me. I think the chap who mentioned knives becoming part of ones estate hit the nail on the head for me.  Rather like Lie Nielsen and the heirloom quality strap line, I just know these knives will go the distance. In an all too throw away consumer culture, I find that rather reassuring somehow.

Hi Jeff and thanks for the response

The tools do cut fine at the lathe although its difficult to judge edge longevity without an A to B comparison. I can only assume my honing technique must be rounding the edge slightly although I struggle to see how given how painstakingly I execute the procedure. I'll experiment with sneaking up on the edge more conservatively.

Your help is appreciated :-)

I'm going to stick my neck out and invite a good kicking!  Here goes. Despite wisdom to the contrary, recently I've been leaving the burr on my turning tools, specifically, roughing gouge, spindle gouge and a couple different skew chisels. I normally hone religiously, spot of compound, great care not to roll the edge, mirror finish, polish out the scratch pattern etc, the whole enchilada.

I can honestly say, it made no difference.. In fact I would venture to suggest they actually seemed sharper to me!

I know I know, am I a heretic or what?  I'm actually expecting a bolt of lightning with Jeff Faris' face on it strike me where I sit. But I kid you not, this is what's going down in my workshop.  Have I gone bonkers or is there an explanation without the word "witchcraft" in it that sheds light on my experience?

I've been tormekking my run of the mill knives for years....it's fine.  However, I recently purchased the expensive Japanese "global" knives and they are scarily sharp out the box which is in itself a rare mark of quality. The steel is without question more durable and holds an edge for about five times as long as a regular knife assuming no chronic abuse.

I tormek these new guys about once a month maybe six weeks and they're quite stunning.  One thing I notice is that a steel won't give them the edge I like, only the tormek manages that whereas a steel can bring back my cheaper knives if I can't be bothered to set the Tormek up just for one dulled knife.  So for ease and simple the cheapys work but your cost will be time spent sharpening.  The better ones last longer between sharpens but you pay handsomely for that privelidge (in my case £200 for five knives)

Like all things in life, quality comes at a price.....it's all about choice