Messages

No worries at all.

I'm always glad to share encounters with the "special people" that are somehow drawn to me, and anything about my workflow as well.

No problem, I'm open to share.

I used to measure sharpness before and after (PT50A), but once I started explaining to customers what the numbers meant, it just went over their heads. They just ended up running their fingers across the blade, lifting it up to "inspect the apex", and a stranger one would drag his thumbnail perpendicular across the bevel, scraping his thumbnail to do some sort of "testing".

But back to your question. For my $40 higher service tier pricing, I do sharpening, blade polishing, minor repairs and ultrasonic cleaning. Typically for very acute angle Japanese knives, or ceramic ones.

I aim for as low as possible BESS scores within reasonable effort, but my results typically hover between 80+ to 120+. Starting point for customer knives vary a lot. Highest was nearly 4000, average about 400-800.

I'm gonna guess you're thinking of how to economise the use of your ACC-150 solution?

Whenever I clean my diamond grindstones in my ultrasonic cleaner with just water and dish soap, I rinse them with water to remove all soap.

Then I mount the grindstone on my T8 and spin them for a bit in the trough filled with the ACC-150 solution. I do it just to coat it with the solution, then I let it drip dry before storing it.

If you're drying off your grindstone after using just water, you'll need to access the hollow section under the plastic cover, and that is where corrosion may form without you knowing.

Also, if you're using just water, you roll the dice if you encounter knife steel that flash rusts quickly, getting embedded in your grindstone and causing rust spots all over, no matter how fast you dry it after.

So it finally happened.

About three weeks into the start of my physical store/sharpening workshop, a lady approached us and asked what we did. We replied "We sharpen knives and scissors".

She said "I have something small... I was wondering if you could repair it". As she rummaged through her handbag, I was thinking maybe a pocket knife, a pair of scissors?

And she pulled out an analog alarm clock.


I swear you could not make this up, even if you tried in a lab.

So far, since I've started business officially this year (February), I've sharpened about 90 knives (with 3-4 repeat orders)

Only 4 knives did not have any damage
- 1 Katto santoku
- 1 Shun Santoku
- 1 Richardson Sheffield cleaver
- 1 generic cleaver (Hakkoh brand)

Common damage encountered, from most frequent to least:
- Concave blade profile
- Broken knife tips
- Chips extending beyond secondary bevel
- Severe corrosion
- Blade bent away from knife handle (out of alignment)
- Warping of blade above chipped area
- Knife tip bent to one side
- Lateral cracks on blade (parallel to spine)

So as a rough estimate, approx. 80% of knives handed to me have one or more types of damage listed.

I suspect it can be quite the cultural thing as well. Where I'm at (Singapore), disposability is the name of the game, and choosing repair over replacement is still considered a "new fad". Knife sharpening and repair is still considered menial dirty blue collar work, and people still think in 1980s prices.

My question for those of us with higher sharpening volumes than me is, How many of the knives you sharpen are "very dull or damaged"?

I think a good place to start would be to indicate the volume of knives you sharpen, to get responses from your target demographic.

When I started my sharpening business, I would tell customers my sharpening plan, how I created it, and what I planned to achieve (approx. 200 BESS and lower, sharper than brand new)

The one thing I never anticipated was how almost all customers would gauge quality and sharpness through appearance, and nothing about how the geometry was created to match their usage. So the underlying question of my initial post was to get an idea what "standards" other people in this forum work towards.

I've had a recent customer complained that I had scratched up his knife. But when he was shown the initial photo he sent to me, he then realised I had actually removed majority of scratches, and lightened the deeper ones. His only feedback about a deba knife I had sharpened for him earlier? "My wife cut her finger" 🤔🤷🏻�♂️

Customer behaviour still remains a mystery for me.

Consider a hanging leather strop as a user friendly alternative.

It's flexible, conforms to the cutting edge (especially useful for people who sharpen infrequently), and it won't change the blade geometry so much that you'll have to reprofile their knives each time they bring them over to you (saving time)

The risky part of providing an alternative (like a honing steel) is that you're not there to stop bad technique, or over sharpening.

Even though I sharpen knives for a living, I don't sell customers any sharpening tools, only a leather strop mounted on a rectangular plastic backing. That way, it's much more forgiving to bad technique, and saves me time with reprofiling the next time they visit. (I've repaired too many concave knives to trust customers)

This may be a good place to start

https://slipakniven.com/product/adapter-for-2-wheels-long-version/

I've used my DC-250 since... December last year? It still cuts very well for 360G, but for faster reprofiling, I still use my SG-250 (graded to 220G)

Every 1-2 weeks I clean all my diamond grindstones in my ultrasonic cleaner, then "rinse" them in the ACC-150 solution by mounting it on my T8, then running it through the water trough for a few minutes.

I would recommend getting a combination of SG-250, DC-250, and DF-250. These should cover almost all knives (and scissors) you can throw at it. I chose to use mainly diamond grindstones because I wanted to speed up grit progression by using the same diameter grindstones (and also to sharpen ceramic knives)

Most knives I sharpen with the DF-250 (600G), I barely see the scratch pattern after honing on the LA-220 leather wheel. If you're pursuing a mirror-like finish, then the DE-250 (1200G) would be an economical and practical choice.

I do use my DE-250 (1200G) and SJ-250 (4000G) for commercial chefs (and some customers) who request for it, but that's far and few in between.

I have all 3 diamond grindstones for my sharpening business.

I typically use the DC-250 (360G) to reshape/reprofile blades, and sharpen with the DF-250 (600G). Only when the customer wants a finer edge (and willing to pay more), do I use the DE-250 (1200G)

From personal experience... Going from the DC-250 to DE-250 is going to add a lot of time to your sharpening. Some factors to be considered are hardness of the steel, and what level of sharpness you're trying to achieve.

I spend most of the time at the DC-250, lesser time with the DF-250, and the least time with the DE-250.

So it's definitely a possibility, but the time take  is going to be hella long.

Many thanks for the follow up Nick.

I currently record images of customer knives, before & after, as well as digital microscope images of the before & after.

I don't typically send them out to customers post work, and use them more like a "break glass in case of emergency" type deal... You know, in case I get that unsatisfiable customer.

But I got a good review from the customer, so it all ended up well. But I'm always thinking of how to recreate good results more consistently and predictably in future.

Totally agree with you Nick.

I think a bit of background to this "theory", is that I'm still working on a framework to categorise my sharpening services pricing for my business, as well as streamlining workflows.

Almost all my customer knives have required repairs of different extents, and I was tired of doing these repairs without getting properly paid.

So I developed a framework (that included estimated bevel height) so that I could consistently move customers towards the appropriately priced service tier, to be fairly paid.

So when receiving knives, I measure the behind-edge-thickness, estimate the bevel width, and let them know what the final product will look like. Most of them gauge the quality of service based on the appearance of the knife (strange, I know) I still find it odd how my sharpening business really picked up after I got a bench polisher.

So, for this knife in conversation, I told the customer beforehand that the recommended sharpening angle range (15-20 DPS) would produce a bevel of 1mm width or less, and it would be hardly noticeable. And if she was agreeable with it, then I would proceed with work.

I actively try to avoid getting into disputes with uninformed customers who receive their knives post sharpening, and ask me why almost nothing was done, because they didn't notice any significant difference. (When handing over knives, I typically do a paper cut test in front of them, before they make payment. Using my PT50A test results just goes over their heads, but they can recognise a paper cut test)

So thinking back, my question was more of dealing with customers and what standard of work was deemed "acceptable", in a commercial sharpening context.

Many thanks for the responses.

I'm already done sharpening the chef knife, and the edge meets my standard of sharpness.

I think I was more curious about what kind of "standards" professional sharpeners work towards, especially when adding uninformed customers into the equation.

Regarding the bevel width, it's just my working theory that if the bevel width is too narrow, then the knife would have more difficulty slicing softer food (like meat) because before the bevel can start the cut, the primary bevel would be trying to wedge itself into the food. If the bevel width was too wide, then it becomes more vulnerable to rolling over/folding. So it's just based on observations from customer knives, my own knives, and brand new knives in stores, that I try to work towards a 1-2mm bevel width.

Good point, I asked about how to sharpen, but the focus of the question was not exactly aligned with what I asked.

Part one of question:
Seeking advice on how other Tormek users would sharpen a knife with an extremely thin blade (0.5mm behind edge thickness)

Part two of question:
Would a <1mm secondary bevel width be considered acceptable? (I typically aim for 1-2mm bevel width, in conjunction with the sharpening angle)

This knife is already sharpened at 15 DPS, but the secondary bevel is <1mm wide. So I'm just looking for advice if this is commonly done, or generally considered too narrow.