Should I Persist?

[PeteH]

So a year ago I spent a small fortune on a T4, 8 jigs and the small stropping wheels. I'd been dreaming of it for decades.

When I got it home I spent an afternoon trying to sharpen a chisel. Read the manual, watched the videos, checked chisel for square in jig, tightened everything, etc, etc... and ruined the existing bevel as I watched it grind one side more than the other... read again, watched again, used a bigger square when setting up etc, watched the same result. Then I tried a plane blade. Again it ground more on one side. I didn't dare try any of my carving chisels. I then spent the evening hand shaping the damage done. Once they were done I thought I would give the strop a go, well that had a hard lump at the join that was so big the chisel jumped off the wheel and took the edge off... in disgust I put all back in its box and on a shelf out of sight... I didn't want to be reminded of the huge financial mistake I'd made.

It's sat on the shelf until today. Surfing around YouTube watching carving videos, up pops one about correcting Tormek wheels out of square. I watched, got the box off the shelf, lowered the bar down to the wheel, and Lo! Light shining thru on one side! It was out of square from the shop! Then I searched around and found a video where a Tormek rep talks about one in a thousand stropping wheels need a sand at the join! Another problem fixable.

So to correct my wheel, I would need to give more money to Tormek... or I could continue to cut my losses, leave it on the shelf for another year or two then sell it to some poor sod... Should I persist? Should I give them more money? Is it worth the risk given my experience of their low quality control???

To tell the truth, I'm think I'm more angry today than when i bought it. Back then i felt embarrassed I could spend so much for something so useless...

[Ken S]

Welcome to the forum, Pete. With a little courage and patience, your troubles will soon be in the past. Tormek has provided us with two valuable resources, the handbook and the online training classes on youtube. Your time studying these will be well rewarded.

The bump on the leather honing wheel joint is an easy fix. The leather used in the leather honing wheel is absolutely top quality. I remember an exhibit describing it when I visited Tormek in Sweden. Unfortunately, occasionally some of the glue needs a little sanding to be smooth. Thirty seconds sanding the joint lightly with medium grit sandpaper will end your problem.

The SE-77 is a versatile jig. It can grind plane irons with controlled camber. This versatility requires a little more skill. Use a black marker on your bevel. Run your Tormek for a couple seconds. Examine the bevel with a small square to check for squareness. Adjust the chisel if needed. Do not grind the entire bevel before verifying squareness.

Be sure to watch the online class with Stig. He demonstrates an effective procedure to check squareness. as I recall, it was about 24 minutes into the class.

At this point, what you need is education and experience. Tormek provides the education. After study, I suggest you work slowly and make one chisel ((3/4" is a good first width)sharp and square. Then, just build on that experience. You will succeed.

Keep us posted.

Ken

PS You are not alone. Forty years ago, I purchased my dream camera, a wooden 4x5 view camera. The outfit cost $1200. I was quite discouraged when I could not see to view or focus with it. With much persistence, I finally mastered it. It became my favorite camera.

Patience and persistence. . . .

[Royale]

I'm gonna guess you're referring to the SG-200 grindstone?

You didn't mention attempts at truing the grindstone after sharpening your chisel... So maybe that could be a good place to start?

I'm not the kind to stick up for any brands that make crap, and disclaimer, I don't own a T-4 (I only have the T-8) But that being said, the strengths of Tormek machines are their simplicity in design, and manufacture to good tolerances.

Take the time to practice with your machine. Get a feel for how the blade vibrates in your hands, the sound it makes during sharpening, and the speed of how it abrades.

My learning experience with my T-8 has been in waves. I started out getting really good results, then it all goes to shit, then I get better results, and then it all goes to shit again. But over time with increasing practice, the mistakes I make become increasingly rare, and only occur in unusual circumstances (E.g. More brittle steel encountered where it should be softer, steel suddenly wearing down a lot faster on random spots)

Since you don't really have an alternative you could use right now, and the T-4 is already with you... Why not try again on other items like knives? You get your practice in, and the worse case scenario? You have more sharp knives than you actually use.

I know what it feels like to have high hopes and that excitement when you get a new capability, and to feel that disappointment (and frustration) when it seems unable to do seemingly simple tasks.

Put in a bit more time, be patient and let the grindstone work it's magic. You got this.

[PeteH]

I appreciate both your replies.
However, they both suggest it was the result of user error. I suggest it was the result of manufacture error...

I would expect as a minimum that the two main wheels were true from the factory.
Why should the burden of measuring, aligning, trueing, and general quality control be left to the consumer when they have purchased over $2000 of equipment? To say I am disappointed is an understatement. To have buy a trueing tool to simply not damage my tools at initial purchase and to correct manufacture error is appalling. Even if I expected the need to purchase one in the future.
I think will stick to stones, even tho $150 for the trueing tool is insignificant to the total cost. I just don't want to give them another cent of my money.
I have decided to sell the machine.

[RichColvin]

Pete,

I am sad to hear that you are having such a bad experience with your Tormek.  I have had a Tormek for over 20 years, and I am thankful I made the investment back then.

I want to pass on a couple of thoughts to you before you put your machine up for sale.  I don't mean for these to be an insult to your abilities; I have never met you so I cannot judge your skills.  Rather, it is to offer up some ways of thinking about your sharpening journey.

Consider the work one must do to make a new Japanese chisel usable.  John Reed Fox wrote an article for Fine Woodworking in 2013, "How To Set Up Your New Japanese Chisel".  Just the activities to set the hoop seem a bit onerous to me (Jay Speetjens wrote an article about that in 2012, "Japanese Chisel Tuneup: Setting the Hoop").

And I cannot begin to think what it must feel like when one must tap out a Japanese chisel blade once the sharpening has progressed back far enough.  To say I would be nervous is an understatement.

I guess those activities are what comes with going the route of Japanese woodworking tools, and those like Andew Hunter who have chosen that path seem to find joy in the activities.

I would not view your experiences as user error; rather I urge you to consider it a learning curve.

When I got started using the Tormek, it was many years before I became comfortable grinding the tool with the grindstone rotating towards me.  I thought it would be too easy to make a mistake.  Now, I am very comfortable achieving quick results that way.

As a woodturner, I feel the same way about the skew and especially the bedan.  I've been woodturning for many years (30+), and it is only within the last few years where I have felt comfortable using the skew.  (The bedan is still on the list to be mastered.)

I love the Tormek approach to sharpening.  I always get consistent results which makes the use of the tools easier:  I don't have to readjust to them every time.

I like that the process does not remove lots of metal from the tools I sharpen, tools I spent a lot of money to buy. When I started turning, I sharpened my turning tools on the bench grinder.  I found I was quickly making them shorter and shorter (that was before CBN wheels became as prevalent).  Now, I don't have that problem.

And I like that the Tormek does not toss a lot of metal filings / dust into the air.

You probably experience the same with hand sharpening on stones; I cannot say as I have not done that for many years.  But I can say that using the Tormek does sharpen my tools quickly, far faster than when I did it by hand.

——————————————

As it regards the TT-50 Truing Tool, you were going to need that sooner than later.  That accessory should be viewed as comparable to the diamond stone you need to true a water stone. 

Best of luck to you,
Rich

[PeteH]

Hi Rich

Yes I understand the process of setting up an artisan made tool. However, the marketing of these expensive machines highlight the high quality of construction. The machine I bought displays no such qualities.
My experience of Tormek has found the quality control to be on par with woodworking tools purchased on Temu.

[PeteH]

Further, if it is necessary it true the wheel before any use, then the  TT-50 should be included with any starter kit and should be included in the instructions.

[Ken S]

Pete,

It may surprise you to learn that I actually agree with you on several points. Those of us who have followed my posts over the years will know that I have been an advocate of the T4 since it was first introduced. That stated, I have been an honest critic. I have never liked the way it has been marketed. I have never thought of it as a stripped down, less expensive version of the T8.

When it was introduced, the T4 was Tormek's most advanced model. It was a major redesign of the T3. The machined zinc top, later incorporated in the T8, allowed much greater accuracy than the Then flagship model, the T7. My comments over the years have run counter to the prevailing "more ecenomical, hobbiest" sales pitch. In my opinion, the T4 is a professional quality machine when properly equipped. I have equipped my T4 with a TT-50 truing Tool, and both the steel EZYlock and quick change nut listed as spare parts for the T7/8. The "thirty minute duty" myth should have been eliminated from the start. It never was a problem with the T4..

I believe the T4 should have only been sold with the truing tool. Initial truing is always good grinding practice, just as frequent flattening is for bench stones. The need for truing is not a criticism of Tormek quality; it is just part of grinding, just like oil changes are with vehicle engines.

Sadly, we live in a do it yourself world where customer training is regarded as an expense rather than a compensated part of customer service. A training session with a Tormek instructor would have solved your problems. The bump in your leather wheel is a one time, less than a minute fix with a scrap of sandpaper. Truing the grinding wheel requires a Truing tool, but is a skill quickly and easily mastered.
Getting a square grind is also not a difficult skill to learn.Tormek has made learning so much easier with the handbook and the online classes. I have lost track of how many times I have read the handbook and watched the classes. I learn more with each repetition.

Purchasing a Tormek is a lifetime investment. I hope you will not short circuit your Tormek experience by premature giving up. The learning curve is worth the effort.

Keep posting your questions; we have all been there.

Ken