Hi all, I'm looking for a Knife Grinders vid on chisel sharpening. I have many of the Knife Grinders suggested accessories and would like to use a more advanced method of sharpening my chisels, rather than the tradition methods. Thanks for the help.
Not sure they has a "Chisel Grinders of Australia" subsidiary...
Knife Grinders sharpening and research was devoted exclusively to knives.
What kind of woodworking with chisels are you planning to do? You could invest a lot more time and money in sharpening chisels, although I don't think this investment would produce any practical benefits. I do have three suggestions for "upping your game" with chisels:
1) Concentrate on the back of the chisel. You will see a lot of slap dash chisel "sharpening" videos which ignore the back. You will never achieve nth degree sharpness unless the back of the chisel is dead flat and polished like a mirror. Generally, the initial sharpening requires much more work on the back than on the bevel. The real cost of cheap chisels is the huge amount of work to properly prepare the backs.
The Tormek online video with Stig is well worth tour study time. Two highlights, the way he drops the chisel on the inside of the grinding wheel (2) and, the extra time spent with the leather honing wheel (3).
Related to chisel sharpening is learning how to properly camber bench plane blades. This is one area which separates the expert woodworkers from the everyday carpenters. Understand cambering and become skilled with the SE-77.
I am a believer in the value of having good quality learning chisels for practice and improving tour skills.
Ken
I think my biggest concern is using the side of the stone to flatten the back of the chisel. I know how much care must be taken when doing that by hand, so it's hard to imagine holding the chisel perfectly still with all the forces of the turning wheel acting on the it. I know what a perfectionist Vadim was and is, so I was hoping he had made a chisel video demonstrating his techniques, including how he would remove the burr and polish.
Do a google search for "Knife Grinders youtube channel". Click on the videos to see the complete listing. There are no chisel videos.
If you are really particular about sharpening chisels, flatten and polish the backs with a flat piece of plate glass and wet and dry abrasive. This method is not speedy; however, if done carefully, your chisels will be dead flat.
If you want superior results in less time, only prepare the chisels you actually need. I had a complete set of chisels from 1/8" to 2" for several years. When I finally passed them along to my nephew, I noticed that several of the larger sizes had never been used (or flattened). Better to have three or four premium chisels than a set of a dozen needing extensive flattening.
Ken
The videos I've catalogued are at the bottom of this web page https://sharpeninghandbook.info/WW-Chisels.html.
Well, I ended up sharpening two chisels and they came out great. To save time and effort, I flattened the backs on the 250 diamond wheel, then went on to refine them manually on my ceramic stones. Preparing for the bevel, I did have a time adjusting the SE77 to produce 90* edges and had to do it for each individual chisel, so I assume it's not a one time adjustment for all chisels. The bevels were worked on diamond wheels 400, 600, 1000 and 1200 grits and hopefully, burrs were removed manually on a leather strop, as I am not yet confident enough on the leather wheel to not accidentally round over the edges.
Can Calcapp be used for chisels? I used the supplied angle finder, however I'm not sure how accurate it really is.
Darita,
In my opinion, the fastest, most repeatably accurate way to set up chisels (and plane blades) is with the Tormek TTS-100, shown in this link:
https://tormek.com/en/products/accessories/tts-100-turning-tool-setter
Two settings control repeatable accuracy, Distance and Protrusion. Fix the Distance by using hole B with the TTS-100. One of the beauties of this tool is that by aligning the support bar with the two metal wheels, the tool auto corrects for differences in wheel diameter. The most practical benefit of this is that it eliminates the need to recalculate for the leather honing wheel.
By consistently using the TTS-100 with hole B, once you set the tool and support bar, which only takes a few seconds, there is no need to adjust your Distance setting EVER. You can sharpen twenty chisels in one session or return years later and never need to reset. Your Distance will remain accurate and consistant.
Once the Distance is set, setting the Projection ONLY FOR THE FIRST CHISEL is just a little more involved. Adjust the Projection for your desired bevel angle (typically 25°) using standard operating procedure with the Anglemaster. The only difference is that you will be adjusting only by adjusting length of the Projection. Do not touch the microadjust! This must remain fixed.
Once your chisel is adjusted, place the mounted chisel in one of the three slots of the TTS-100. With a fine tip Sharpie, make a mark at the tip of the chisel. This mark is your Projection. This initial first chisel set up is just a bit more complicated than adjusting with the microadjust. However, I have been using this set up and the same mark for thirteen years with no further measurement or adjustment needed. My bevels are accurate and consistent.
This method is even more efficient if you have a second support bar. Set up your grinding support bar in the vertical sleeves and your leather honing wheel support bar in your horizontal sleeves. Do this first. You will not need to do any further adjustment of the support bars. You will not round over your edge with the honing wheel.
The Anglemaster is more than accurate enough for this. Use it with good lighting. It works best with broad measuring surfaces (like chisels). You may use a program like Calcapp if you want; however, I don't see any practical advantage for chisels. (It does work nicely for knives, its intended use).
Ken
Thank you. First time seeing the TTS 100. I'll look into it for sure. Is it always such a hassle using the SE 77, to get a 90 degree edge on the chisel or am I doing something wrong when I butt the chisel side up to the stop?
Darita,
You are in luck. Check out this video starting at 23:20. Stig talks about the SE-77, including an effective way to square up chisels.
https://www.youtube.com/live/8uLMWXqobRM?feature=share
Ken
So has anyone noticed this...when SE77 is adjusted to give a square edge, the chisel looks skewed on USB no matter what angle I look at it.
(https://i.imgur.com/ufub6cf.jpg)
Darita,
There are a number of informative topics in the handtool woodworking tab.
Essentially, you will need a black marker and an accurate small square. With a chisel in the jig, the bevel blacjened, and the two alignment knobs set to "zero", turn the grinding wheel by hand. Use your small square to check that the grind is square. A common mistake is to grind too much before checking.
The SE-77 is a very useful, versatile jig. However; along with this versatility comes a need for higher skill. The skill will come quickly and is worth the effort.
Ken
Ken, I'll be picking up the TTS-100 today. I see it's made for turning tools? I don't have a printer to print your projection jigs. Do you have a site where I can purchase them? And, great tip on squaring up the chisel.
Darita,
Yes, the TTS-100 is primarily designed for turning tools. However, in my opinion, it can do more. Just like turning tools, chisels and plane blades are governed by Distance and Projection (as are knives). I first developed my ideas on Distance and Projection with chisels.
My "projection jigs" (the kenjig) are designed for knives. The PDF I wrote describes how to make them, including cardboard versions. Try making and using one of these simple versions. It doesn't have to last forever. A piece of cardboard, a ruler, pencil, scissors, and five minutes are all that is needed for a replacement. Sorry, no website. Do a google search for "kenjig instructions" to locate the PDF.
Ken
Ken, I've been using the TTS-100 along with your suggestions. I also use SchleifJunkies CBN wheels, Tormek diamond wheel, WoodTurners Wonder and the SJ, all of which leave different degrees of scratch pattern bevel coverage. Because of that, I've had to change my Projection to achieve a full bevel scratch pattern. I'm guessing that the cause of this is each wheel has a slightly different diameter. Is this expected or am I doing something wrong?
Hi,
When you change diameters, you have to overgrind no matter what if you want a full bevel polish: overgrind the tip if you go from larger to smaller diameter, and therefore your projection will change... or overgrind the heel when you go smaller to larger. And as you're polishing, overgrinding can take a looooong time.
You can compensate for that by selecting different angles for the initial and subsequent grinds, and minimizing the amount of metal to be removed. @jvh has a "CompCalc" tab in his TormekCalc spreasheet if you want to do it exactly, or you can eyeball it with a couple degrees more or less depending on your sequence.
@jan mentions his source, Gilles, on this very forum. The topic can now be found here : https://forum.tormek.com/index.php/topic,4326.0.html (https://forum.tormek.com/index.php/topic,4326.0.html)
So after you've gone through the grinding wheels, what's the best way to finish chisels? Should one follow the same procedure as one would on a knife's edge? What do you personally do?
Quote from: Ken S on April 27, 2023, 05:27:14 PMDarita,
In my opinion, the fastest, most repeatably accurate way to set up chisels (and plane blades) is with the Tormek TTS-100, shown in this link:
...
Ken
Just tried this and works a treat. I have a rule with a stop on it. I set each angle them measured the protrusion. Once I know that I can record it. To set up a blade for sharpening I simply set the stop on the rule then set the protrusion using that.
Check out this thread: https://forum.tormek.com/index.php/topic,4971.msg35710.html#msg35710
Quote from: darita on May 04, 2023, 03:45:01 PMKen, I've been using the TTS-100 along with your suggestions. I also use SchleifJunkies CBN wheels, Tormek diamond wheel, WoodTurners Wonder and the SJ, all of which leave different degrees of scratch pattern bevel coverage. Because of that, I've had to change my Projection to achieve a full bevel scratch pattern. I'm guessing that the cause of this is each wheel has a slightly different diameter. Is this expected or am I doing something wrong?
Darita,
The two metal wheels on the TTS-100 automatically compensate for different wheel diameters. Draw a spoke on each wheel with your marker. This makes it easy to see when both wheels are contacting the grinding wheel. (These wheels are a Tormek patent and one of the features which make the TTS-100 so versatile.)
Incidentally, I generally use only the SG for sharpening chisels. I find SG coarse/SG fine and then the leather honing wheel with PA-70 makes quite sharp edges. Once the edge is sharp, touch ups are fast.
Ken