Posted this in another forum... figured I'd add it here too. :) (I know, it's been talked about in other threads, but since I did all this work...) ::)
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The Tormek was one of the first sharpeners I tried, and I developed a liking for it. I like the Tormek for a lot of reasons... besides being fun to use, it creates little mess, is a nice "all-in-one" package, can make repairs, no "overheating" worries, little "dust" created, easily puts a great edge on a knife... among others. Over the years though, I got involved in other sharpeners, and got away from the Tormek.
This year, I returned to either sharpening freehand on various stones, or sharpening on the Tormek. I even ended up getting a new "T-4" model... which in some respects, is a better alternative to its larger cousin for knife sharpening... smaller compact size, less expensive (machine and stones), among other reasons.
This time though, I took a look at the Tormek with a more "critical eye".
To preface: One thing that separates the Tormek from other sharpeners is that, when sharpening on a wheel, changing the location on the wheel, changes the angle. So, even though you keep the knife at the same angle, if you move up or down the wheel, the angle changes.
One thing I noted on the Tormek, is on the standard knife jig, the jig has a "jig stop" that is about 2" wide. If you pivot the knife on this stop... you can dramatically alter the angle the knife is now being sharpened at... by several degrees, because it changes the location of the knife on the stone. Not only that, but you basically have two "pivot points" to deal with. To illustrate, I've drawn a "Line of Contact" (LOC) on the stone...
(https://i.imgur.com/doY6p9x.jpg)
... so if a knife is set at 20° (or any angle), the knife must stay close to this LOC to maintain the angle. You can see that on the straight portion of the blade this isn't an issue...
(https://i.imgur.com/04chskp.jpg)
... but you can see, that if you pivot the knife to follow the belly-to-tip area, the contact location on the stone changes. (This is more of an issue on knives under approx. 3 1/2" with a more pronounced belly tip area)...
(https://i.imgur.com/tuffZyS.jpg)
Even adjusting the clamp as far away as possible, doesn't adequately adjust for this...
(https://i.imgur.com/idV8Cwl.jpg)
... so, the solution? Replace the Tormek's "Stop Collar" (seen below on the left), with a 12mm drill stop collar (or shaft collar... seen on the right) with a smaller diameter. (A solution that can be found for under $3 in most cases)...
(https://i.imgur.com/yHlzROX.jpg)
This allows the sharpener to correctly set the knife in the clamp, and also provides a more natural sharpening movement (compared to having two pivot points to deal with), while allowing the knife to stay close to the LOC and maintain the same angle...
(https://i.imgur.com/UYAEW0X.jpg)
A couple of more points. First, you also have the option of not pivoting the blade at all, and simply lifting the handle. To do so requires more attention be placed on where the blade is set in the clamp... specifically, the location of the belly/tip area in relation to the pivot. Also, this movement isn't as "natural" and may not work on all blade types.
And of course, you have the option of freehand sharpening, which many sharpeners do... and simply keeping the same location consistent throughout the blade. This does take some practice to do so though.
There are other changes I've made (that I'll show some other time), but this is one that I think greatly enhances the use of the Tormek for knife sharpening, and is simple and inexpensive to do! :)
cbwx34
After your reply to my question about sharpening drop point knives this is exactly what I did, and it worked a treat.
I have a drop point hunter that had uneven grinds straight from the maker which bugged the hell out of me, I had to fix it and this little trick did the job really well ;)
Quote from: Crusty on December 04, 2017, 11:29:31 PM
cbwx34
After your reply to my question about sharpening drop point knives this is exactly what I did, and it worked a treat.
I have a drop point hunter that had uneven grinds straight from the maker which bugged the hell out of me, I had to fix it and this little trick did the job really well ;)
Thanks for the update... glad it worked! :)
CB,
As you said, you are thankful I am not part of the design team. If I had been, one of the six end stops would probably solve your problem. ;)
By the way, your photos of the 2017 KSEdition are really funny! I enjoyed them.
Ken
I might have to send you a Stop Collar for Christmas. ;)
Part 2....
-----------------------------------
The next "fix" isn't one I've found an easy solution for.
The Tormek knife jig isn't self centering... it is designed for knives approx. 2.5mm thick (just under .1")... this info comes from other Tormek users in their forum. While not a huge deal, thicker or thinner knives can end up with bevels that are slightly uneven.
Some Tormek users use shims to make up the difference, but I found that if the parts on a KME clamp are rearranged, (and a washer and nut are added to the mix), it makes a decent alternative for the Tormek jig...
(https://i.imgur.com/XbKVFXL.jpg)
... and still incorporates the small pivot modification. But, I know it's probably not worth buying a KME to cannibalize the clamp... so still looking for a better solution. (One option for some knives is the Tormek "Small Knife Holder", which will work for some EDC size knives, but has its own issues).
My idea would be to combine a KME self centering clamp with these:
A swivel bar mount:
(https://s33.postimg.org/fv7ycmi0r/Swivel_mount.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/fv7ycmi0r/)
and
A linear ball bearing:
(https://s33.postimg.org/463yooe7f/Linear_ball_bearing.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/463yooe7f/)
I think I need more info.... :)
Quote from: cbwx34 on December 05, 2017, 05:55:15 AM
I might have to send you a Stop Collar for Christmas. ;)
CB,
It's too late to go down to the shop and probably wake my family. I don't suppose the thread on the knife jig is 12mm. If so, the stop on the square edge jig would serve as a collar.
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on December 06, 2017, 04:37:34 AM
CB,
It's too late to go down to the shop and probably wake my family. I don't suppose the thread on the knife jig is 12mm. If so, the stop on the square edge jig would serve as a collar.
Ken
A 12mm collar will slide right on.
Looking forward to your report! ;)
I agree with CB.
Tormek has many jigs but I think these are too simple. I would like Tormek to work hard on the development of the jig.
And I hope the Angle master will be improved to the same type as Kenjig.
Or, like Wootz's software, how about developing an app and drawing a scale on US columns?
I haven't tried this but what if you just just take the adjustment knob and just turned it around and used the small end?
Quote from: GeoTech on December 06, 2017, 11:19:23 PM
I haven't tried this but what if you just just take the adjustment knob and just turned it around and used the small end?
Good question. It won't fit if turned around... it'll screw on, but apparently there's some kind of stop in the middle, so the "projection length" is too long. (Might work with one of the longer after market USBs, but didn't try that).
Maybe could be made to work... an option to consider!
Part 3........
------------------------------------
Now moving into some options...
After "solving" the pivot issue, I added this option...
(https://i.imgur.com/8zU5ARd.jpg)
... this converts the horizontal USB on the "turning away" side of the Tormek from a horizontal to a vertical setup.
I had cobbled together a version from a couple of USBs and other parts earlier, but the setup you see here is from a design primarily from Jan, a member of the Tormek forum. The parts I got from McMaster/Carr (2 12mm rods a 1"x2"x1' 1/8" thick wall "Aluminum Tube", and assorted nuts and washers), and a Tormek XB100 Universal Support Base.
The main reason for the setup... when sharpening on this side of the Tormek, it puts the knife in a better and more comfortable position. But there are some "clues" in the pictures (angle marks on the stone, the "chopstick", etc...), of some other reasons (especially for the commercial sharpener). More to come...
CB, thanks for sharing the images, really nice arrangement! :)
I have enjoyed your various gadgets. Yes, the horizontal position is more comfortable then other generally inclined positions.
Sharpening away often enables to detect the burr sooner than when grinding towards the edge.
Jan
I have often stated that the Tormek is a very versatile machine in skilled hands. This topic is a fine example of the source of that versatility. When imaginative minds freely collaborate, great things are possible.
I have thought about using Tormek's Oneway adaptor and the Oneway slides to provide this horizontal and vertical positioning. I believe it would work reasonably well. The drawback of my idea is that it depends on accurately positioning the Oneway guides. The Jan/CB design eliminates that need by mounting the bracket on the Tormek sleeves, which also makes it readily removable. I think the Jan/CB design is the clear winner.
Good work!
My granddaughter is awake and has nicely requested to use the ipad. Must dash.
Ken
Quote from: Jan on December 09, 2017, 11:39:59 AM
CB, thanks for sharing the images, really nice arrangement! :)
I have enjoyed your various gadgets. Yes, the horizontal position is more comfortable then other generally inclined positions.
Sharpening away often enables to detect the burr sooner than when grinding towards the edge.
Jan
Good point and Thank you! :)
Quote from: Ken S on December 09, 2017, 12:31:01 PM
I have often stated that the Tormek is a very versatile machine in skilled hands. This topic is a fine example of the source of that versatility. When imaginative minds freely collaborate, great things are possible.
I have thought about using Tormek's Oneway adaptor and the Oneway slides to provide this horizontal and vertical positioning. I believe it would work reasonably well. The drawback of my idea is that it depends on accurately positioning the Oneway guides. The Jan/CB design eliminates that need by mounting the bracket on the Tormek sleeves, which also makes it readily removable. I think the Jan/CB design is the clear winner.
Good work!
My granddaughter is awake and has nicely requested to use the ipad. Must dash.
Ken
Thanks... although I'm just the copier in this case. ;)
Quote from: cbwx34 on December 04, 2017, 10:15:18 PM
Even adjusting the clamp as far away as possible, doesn't adequately adjust for this...
(https://i.imgur.com/idV8Cwl.jpg)
Instead of rotating the jig about a vertical axis, rotate it about the jig handle. In other words, adjust the roll rather than the yaw.
Quote from: Herman Trivilino on December 09, 2017, 04:28:12 PM
Instead of rotating the jig about a vertical axis, rotate it about the jig handle. In other words, adjust the roll rather than the yaw.
Thanks for the input.
This was mentioned earlier, that "lifting the handle" (essentially what you're saying here), is an option. For some knives that will work, in particular those that are longer and/or don't have a lot of belly. Many kitchen knives for example can be sharpened this way, (and seems to be the common example). (There's also a lengthy discussion of this in the "To Pivot or Not To Pivot (https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=2589.0)" thread, for those who haven't read it).
But knives that are shorter, and/or have more of a curve in the belly to tip area, won't always track properly, no matter where in the clamp they're set. I also mentioned it's not a natural movement for the knife. I'll expand on both a bit.
One issue of lifting the handle is that it will only properly follow the curve for very few knives. This is probably best exemplified in Jan's Template for setting the knife...
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2589.0;attach=767)...
... which gives an idea of the radius. Many knives are "close enough" that the minor difference isn't noticeable.
But on knife with more of a curve, or that don't match the radius correctly, the actual shape of the knife can change. Here's a couple of pictures to show an example...
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3459.0;attach=1434)
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3459.0;attach=1436)
... you can see, if you look at the tip area, that shape starts to change. Although the knife still has a tip, and may not be noticeable for several sharpenings. over time the angle between the spine and edge becomes greater. It's also not "natural for the knife" because it doesn't follow how the knife wants to cut.
The other reason is that pivoting the knife is more of a natural movement for the sharpener... since you're both imitating how you might cut with the knife, and, if you sharpen with other methods... may make the transition to the Tormek a bit easier.
That's why, in addition to the other reasons given earlier in the thread, I think a smaller pivot area is better. :)
I agree that narrowing the collar, as you have done, is a good option. I just wanted to mention the additional option of lifting the handle. Sometimes one would have to do both.
Quote from: cbwx34 on December 08, 2017, 05:20:19 PM
The main reason for the setup... when sharpening on this side of the Tormek, it puts the knife in a better and more comfortable position. But there are some "clues" in the pictures (angle marks on the stone, the "chopstick", etc...), of some other reasons (especially for the commercial sharpener). More to come...
Very interesting thread. Thanks for sharing these tips. So what is the "chopstick" for?
Quote from: Herman Trivilino on December 10, 2017, 11:08:35 PM
I agree that narrowing the collar, as you have done, is a good option. I just wanted to mention the additional option of lifting the handle. Sometimes one would have to do both.
Ah.... cool. (I guess saying "Instead of..." threw me off). ;)
Quote from: canuck on December 11, 2017, 01:33:37 AM
Very interesting thread. Thanks for sharing these tips. So what is the "chopstick" for?
Thanks. The chopstick is used to "index" the wheel to set the angle. Described a bit here (https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=3323.0) (although that particular implementation turned out not to work). I'll tie all this together eventually. 8)
Quote from: Ken S on December 06, 2017, 04:37:34 AM
It's too late to go down to the shop and probably wake my family. I don't suppose the thread on the knife jig is 12mm. If so, the stop on the square edge jig would serve as a collar.
I got my hands on a SE-77 Collar... it doesn't appear it'll work, at least not without some modification...
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3459.0;attach=1463)
... the knob hits the USB, when you flip it over.
But the setup I got (thru McMaster Carr
(Product #: 96016A353 & 57485K69) works well...
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3459.0;attach=1465)
... and has a bit more edge or "lip" on it. :)
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3459.0;attach=1467)
That MC collar would be perfect with a hex key style grub screw like the drill stops
I agree with Crusty. To the best of my knowledge, all of the Tormek knobs use an m6 thread. I have accumulated an odd assortment of m6 metric knobs, bolts, etc.
Ken
Quote from: Crusty on December 18, 2017, 02:06:42 AM
That MC collar would be perfect with a hex key style grub screw like the drill stops
You may be right... and that's actually what it comes with. The main reason I'm trying the knob screw is so that I can make adjustments easier if I need to. (Still experimenting a bit).
Thanks for the input.
Quote from: Ken S on December 18, 2017, 02:19:50 AM
I agree with Crusty. To the best of my knowledge, all of the Tormek knobs use an m6 thread. I have accumulated an odd assortment of m6 metric knobs, bolts, etc.
Ken
Yup... my collection is starting to grow as well. ;)
Have a look at Ruland Quick Clamping shaft collars for speedy setup and adjustability, outside diameter is starting to get large on them though
Quote from: Crusty on December 18, 2017, 03:51:23 AM
Have a look at Ruland Quick Clamping shaft collars for speedy setup and adjustability, outside diameter is starting to get large on them though
Thanks... but the outer diameter on the one I found (https://www.ruland.com/MQCL-12-A.html) is approaching the original stop jig width... one point I'm trying to avoid.
CB,
There are Allen (hex key) heads which project much less than plastic knobs. I believe they are called socket cap screws. They come in various screw thread lengths. M6 is a very common thread. You would still want an Allen wrench for final tightening. Finger tightening would handle most of your adjustments. As I recall, Allen wrenches are also make in screwdriver configurations.
Ken
Yes, a couple of these have joined my misc parts for Tormek collection over the years. :)
Quote from: Ken S on December 18, 2017, 11:31:19 AM
CB,
There are Allen (hex key) heads which project much less than plastic knobs. I believe they are called socket cap screws. They come in various screw thread lengths. M6 is a very common thread. You would still want an Allen wrench for final tightening. Finger tightening would handle most of your adjustments. As I recall, Allen wrenches are also make in screwdriver configurations.
Ken
Yes, a couple of these have joined my misc parts for Tormek collection over the years. :)
Thanks... I'll keep them in mind. (I was trying these to avoid using an allen wrench). So far, so good! ;)
I've gotten a bit sidetracked on the collar stuff, but oh well. :o
I put together 2 stop collars, to see what having something actually attached to the USB, but able to pivot side to side would do, coming up with this...
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3459.0;attach=1609)
... basically, I put in a bit longer screw, affixed one stop collar to the knife jig so it doesn't move, with just enough of the screw sticking out to attach the other stop collar, but not enough so the screw doesn't contact the USB, and the collar can slide freely on the USB.
The advantages... it does a great job of keeping the knife correctly oriented to the stone. If nothing else it would make a great training tool of how to move the knife, since it essentially guides it along one plane.
The disadvantages... it requires more attention be paid to where in the jig the knife is, especially the belly to tip area... since you can't make adjustments lifting up or down to compensate at all. It also may not work with all knife styles, for example recurves, where the knife has to be maneuvered in the recurve area by tipping the knife down.
But the biggest disadvantage is, this setup really doesn't work. I can't turn the knife over without taking the knife out of the clamp (or taking the whole thing apart)... so in that respects it's a fail.
So, thought I'd post it and see what others might come up with? I know kwakster posted earlier using a "swivel bar mount" and "linear ball bearing"... but am looking for other ideas... thought this might inspire some. I like it being attached to the USB, able to slide back and forth, and controlling the knife along one plane... (which should work for most knives). If you're used to other Tormek jigs that connect to the USB, I think it provides a bit more accuracy and consistency (tell me if you agree or not). ???
(More of an "idea" post, then a "look what I invented" post... if that makes sense).
Edit to add: A quick overhead shot of how it pivots (since my description may not make much sense), and of course it also slides on the USB...
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3459.0;attach=1611)
Quote from: cbwx34 on January 12, 2018, 10:15:04 PM
I put together 2 stop collars, to see what having something actually attached to the USB, but able to pivot side to side would do, coming up with this...
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3459.0;attach=1609)
But the biggest disadvantage is, this setup really doesn't work. I can't turn the knife over without taking the knife out of the clamp (or taking the whole thing apart)... so in that respects it's a fail.
CB,
Add a third collar above the one clamped to the jig shaft, lock that third one to set the projection and unlock the bottom one so the jig can rotate.
Actually, I think it would work to shorten the adjustable stop an appropriate amount and use it in place of that third collar and you would have your continuous and quick projection, same as the unmodified adjustable stop.
Rick
Quote from: RickKrung on January 13, 2018, 02:56:30 AM
CB,
Add a third collar above the one clamped to the jig shaft, lock that third one to set the projection and unlock the bottom one so the jig can rotate.
Actually, I think it would work to shorten the adjustable stop an appropriate amount and use it in place of that third collar and you would have your continuous and quick projection, same as the unmodified adjustable stop.
Rick
Not sure I quite get this. (Just to be clear, not being able to flip the knife over to the other side, is the main issue I have in this case).
The design of the adjustable stop (collar) has puzzled me for a long time. Like most of us, my first exposure to knife sharpening with the Tormek was watching Jeff Farris' video. He specifically stated that he lifted the knife for the tip; he did not rotate it. If so, why does the adjustable stop have a radius along the outside? Wouldn't a flat plane work better?
I realize different styles of knives may have different requirements. In that case, wouldn't a knife jig with interchangeable threaded stops be better? The multi jig has this feature. This is a situation where I wish I had machinist skills.
The Tormek design seems a well balanced general design. We would like more specific solutions.
Ken
Quote from: RickKrung on January 13, 2018, 02:56:30 AM
Add a third collar above the one clamped to the jig shaft, lock that third one to set the projection and unlock the bottom one so the jig can rotate.
Actually, I think it would work to shorten the adjustable stop an appropriate amount and use it in place of that third collar and you would have your continuous and quick projection, same as the unmodified adjustable stop.
Rick
I think Rick might be a genius. :) Especially finding such a simple solution.
He had to explain it to me in an email ('cause I'm not)... but adding a collar on the jig like this...
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3459.0;attach=1613)
... and 'freeing' the middle collar so the jig can rotate seems to solve the rotation problem. (I added another collar so the jig can't move in either direction, but still rotate... glad I bought a bag of these haha).
Need to try it out, but just a quick check... seems to work well.
Love simple solutions. ;D
It looks like you made an SVD-186 for knives.
I have an idea on how to make it so the jig can be lifted as well, but I'm traveling again so can't work on it until I get home tonight.
Rick
Quote from: RichColvin on January 13, 2018, 10:12:18 PM
It looks like you made an SVD-186 for knives.
Wow... yeah it kinda does.... except for the lack of a pivot.
I don't have one, but from the pictures... will a knife jig fit in the part that slides on the USB?
Might be a platform to build off of... ???
Quote from: RickKrung on January 13, 2018, 10:34:40 PM
I have an idea on how to make it so the jig can be lifted as well, but I'm traveling again so can't work on it until I get home tonight.
Rick
No hurry... haven't even had a chance to test this one.
Thanks for your help BTW. :)
Quote from: Ken S on January 13, 2018, 04:23:00 PM
...
The Tormek design seems a well balanced general design. We would like more specific solutions.
Ken
Always! :D
Quote from: RickKrung on January 13, 2018, 10:34:40 PM
I have an idea on how to make it so the jig can be lifted as well, but I'm traveling again so can't work on it until I get home tonight.
Rick
How much lift is needed? 25mm? 50mm? Essentially, I plan on attaching vertically aligned pins to the front face of a collar, like yours. The front face of the pins will be the surface in contact with the USB and what the jig is rotated on. The jig will be free to be lifted. So, how high?
Rick
Quote from: RickKrung on January 14, 2018, 12:21:12 AM
How much lift is needed? 25mm? 50mm? Essentially, I plan on attaching vertically aligned pins to the front face of a collar, like yours. The front face of the pins will be the surface in contact with the USB and what the jig is rotated on. The jig will be free to be lifted. So, how high?
Rick
I don't know what to measure to answer your question. With the current setup, I can lift the handle without rotating the knife (similar to the standard jig with Jeff Farris instructions that Ken reference). And, I can rotate and lift the handle if needed. So, don't know what direction you're referencing... for me to measure. :-\
Quote from: cbwx34 on January 14, 2018, 01:20:26 AM
Quote from: RickKrung on January 14, 2018, 12:21:12 AM
How much lift is needed? 25mm? 50mm? Essentially, I plan on attaching vertically aligned pins to the front face of a collar, like yours. The front face of the pins will be the surface in contact with the USB and what the jig is rotated on. The jig will be free to be lifted. So, how high?
Rick
I don't know what to measure to answer your question. With the current setup, I can lift the handle without rotating the knife (similar to the standard jig with Jeff Farris instructions that Ken reference). And, I can rotate and lift the handle if needed. So, don't know what direction you're referencing... for me to measure. :-\
I was thinking wrongly. I was thinking the jig/collar was lifted off of the USB. With the pins that I envision, the jig could be lifted off of the USB, but that changes the angle. I'm still going to make a collar with pins, as I think it provides a more precise rotation point and help keep the jig from slipping up and forward. I'll make them fairly short, say 20-25mm.
Rick
CB,
At the risk of sounding nice, your photography is first-rate. Keep up the good work!
:)
Ken
Quote from: RickKrung on January 14, 2018, 03:03:02 AM
I was thinking wrongly. I was thinking the jig/collar was lifted off of the USB. With the pins that I envision, the jig could be lifted off of the USB, but that changes the angle. I'm still going to make a collar with pins, as I think it provides a more precise rotation point and help keep the jig from slipping up and forward. I'll make them fairly short, say 20-25mm.
Rick
Cool. 8)
Rotating on a pin should be a good idea... this current "3 collar" setup rotates on the screw, and it has a nice feel to it.
I need to find an alternative to the screw holding the 2 collars together though... hasn't happened yet, ('cause I haven't really used it much), but I suspect that it's going to come apart since the two collars rotate back and forth... can't imagine it's not turning the screw, and there's not a lot of length holding them together (since neither side of the screw can touch the USB or knife jig in this setup). :-\
Quote from: Ken S on January 14, 2018, 05:26:43 AM
CB,
At the risk of sounding nice, your photography is first-rate. Keep up the good work!
:)
Ken
You're scaring me. ::) :D Thanks! :)
Here are some pictures of the SVM-100 in the SVD-186 jig piece :
(http://sharpeninghandbook.info/Tormek/SVD-186-100-a.jpeg)
(http://sharpeninghandbook.info/Tormek/SVD-186-000-b.jpeg)
Seems to fit well.
If someone wants to try it and doesn't own the SVD-186 or SVD-185, you can buy the part separately.
Quote from: RichColvin on January 14, 2018, 06:02:07 PM
Here are some pictures of the SVM-100 in the SVD-186 jig piece :
Seems to fit well.
If someone wants to try it and doesn't own the SVD-186 or SVD-185, you can buy the part separately.
Always nice to have options, but what I don't get is WHY would one do this. It allows rotation but removes tilting and pivoting. As far as knives go, I don't see it, but there could be other applications where a strict perpendicularity is good. Help me out, please.
BTW, you might want to do this the honor of having its own thread.
Rick
Quote from: RichColvin on January 14, 2018, 06:02:07 PM
Here are some pictures of the SVM-100 in the SVD-186 jig piece :
Seems to fit well.
If someone wants to try it and doesn't own the SVD-186 or SVD-185, you can buy the part separately.
Rich, Thanks for the photos.
Quote from: RickKrung on January 14, 2018, 07:14:52 PM
Always nice to have options, but what I don't get is WHY would one do this. It allows rotation but removes tilting and pivoting. As far as knives go, I don't see it, but there could be other applications where a strict perpendicularity is good. Help me out, please.
BTW, you might want to do this the honor of having its own thread.
Rick
I asked him to do this... just to see if anything came to mind. :) Never know...
Might work well for Wharncliffe blades (or other straight edges), where you don't want the knife pivoting at all... :-\
Quote from: cbwx34 on January 14, 2018, 03:55:41 PM
Rotating on a pin should be a good idea... this current "3 collar" setup rotates on the screw, and it has a nice feel to it.
I need to find an alternative to the screw holding the 2 collars together though... hasn't happened yet, ('cause I haven't really used it much), but I suspect that it's going to come apart since the two collars rotate back and forth... can't imagine it's not turning the screw, and there's not a lot of length holding them together (since neither side of the screw can touch the USB or knife jig in this setup). :-\
CB,
I'm not sure we are talking about the same thing yet. By rotating around a pin, I mean one attached to the front/lower face of the pin, as in the photo. The center part of the pin would be missing so the assembly would fit on the jig shaft. A second collar as you have on the top could be used to set the projection, but I plan on shortening the adjustable stop for that purpose.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3459.0;attach=1615)
As for using a screw for a pivot on your setup, it seems to be working well and unless you were to rotate it 360 deg. a time or two I don't think it is likely to come apart and I don't see an advantage of going to a pin. In fact, I see a disadvantage as then they could come apart, perhaps while in use and that wouldn't be so good.
Rick
Looking back at the fifth photo in the original post of this topic (showing the stop collar), I have thought about modifying a stop collar. Replacement parts only cost ten dollars US. A piece of half inch or twelve mm dowel could be chucked into a lathe, metal or wood. Using a skew chisel or similar tool, the radiused face could be cut down to the desired diameter and smoothed. This would work like a stop collar and retain the screw adjustment of the regular Tormek jig. It should be a very quick and easy project for anyone with a lathe. Doing it with a drill press would be doable, but laborious.
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on January 14, 2018, 09:48:10 PM
Looking back at the fifth photo in the original post of this topic (showing the stop collar), I have thought about modifying a stop collar. Replacement parts only cost ten dollars US. A piece of half inch or twelve mm dowel could be chucked into a lathe, metal or wood. Using a skew chisel or similar tool, the radiused face could be cut down to the desired diameter and smoothed. This would work like a stop collar and retain the screw adjustment of the regular Tormek jig. It should be a very quick and easy project for anyone with a lathe. Doing it with a drill press would be doable, but laborious.
Ken
Ken,
I did that, first with rounding the front face of the adjustable stop, second facing it off square. I found the rounded one too difficult to keep on the USB. It was constantly sliding off, downward. That is why I made the squared off one and find it works much better but one has to be sure to keep good pressure on the jig at the USB. Distracting and tiring. As a novice still, I don't have the skill to be distracted like that.
My recommendation is to first cut down a stock stop to a square face and see how you like it. If you think it can be improved by rounding it, give that a try. This sort of thing is why I bought three additional adjustable stops a while back when one of us posted about having rounded one off (was it Wootz?)
I think part of the problem with even the squared off stop is that it doesn't project beyond the centerline of the USB. Thus, I would also recommend leaving enough of the front face of the stock stop to do just that, project beyond the centerline. I realize might leave more than we might want due to the same effect as the width of the stop stop.
This is why I am working on making the pivot surface pins attached to the front face of a collar. Make the pivot point the smallest diameter possible while getting that pivot point well below the centerline of the USB.
Rick
Quote from: RickKrung on January 14, 2018, 09:29:13 PM
CB,
I'm not sure we are talking about the same thing yet. By rotating around a pin, I mean one attached to the front/lower face of the pin, as in the photo. The center part of the pin would be missing so the assembly would fit on the jig shaft. A second collar as you have on the top could be used to set the projection, but I plan on shortening the adjustable stop for that purpose.
As for using a screw for a pivot on your setup, it seems to be working well and unless you were to rotate it 360 deg. a time or two I don't think it is likely to come apart and I don't see an advantage of going to a pin. In fact, I see a disadvantage as then they could come apart, perhaps while in use and that wouldn't be so good.
Rick
Should work similar, but I'll wait to see the final result. (If you mount it on top of the stop collar, I'm not sure you'd need a 2nd one to set the projection length?... but will have to see how it works).
Edit to add: I got to thinking... I can loctite the screw on one side... that should hold it in place. (I don't think it has to rotate 360° to come apart... I'm thinking it can turn a little at a time until it separates).
Quote from: Ken S on January 14, 2018, 09:48:10 PM
Looking back at the fifth photo in the original post of this topic (showing the stop collar), I have thought about modifying a stop collar. Replacement parts only cost ten dollars US. A piece of half inch or twelve mm dowel could be chucked into a lathe, metal or wood. Using a skew chisel or similar tool, the radiused face could be cut down to the desired diameter and smoothed. This would work like a stop collar and retain the screw adjustment of the regular Tormek jig. It should be a very quick and easy project for anyone with a lathe. Doing it with a drill press would be doable, but laborious.
Ken
Welcome aboard!
(my crazy train of mods). :o ;)
Quote from: cbwx34 on January 14, 2018, 11:05:12 PM
Should work similar, but I'll wait to see the final result. (If you mount it on top of the stop collar, I'm not sure you'd need a 2nd one to set the projection length?... but will have to see how it works).
Edit to add: I got to thinking... I can loctite the screw on one side... that should hold it in place. (I don't think it has to rotate 360° to come apart... I'm thinking it can turn a little at a time until it separates).
CB,
Need for the second pin is for flipping the jig over to grind the other side. Whichever pin is down will be used to set the projection.
I'll go with your thoughts on the screw. You are the one with it your hands on it. I"m sure Loctite would do the trick.
I had some time to work on my pivot pin collar idea today. First photo is of just the collars after turning and drilling.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3459.0;attach=1617)
Second photo is of one pin placed in the top position, to give the notion of how it would look and function in the bottom position. Not sure how much pivoting is necessary, but I may have to relieve the front corner of the collar to allow the pin to carry all the pivot motion.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3459.0;attach=1619)
I'd have waited until it was more complete to post, but I'm completely tuckered out and am ceasing all work activities for the night.
Rick
Found the energy for just a little bit more.
I have detailed CAD drawings for putting screws through the collar into the pins to secure them. I'd been thinking about just trying Loctite, but I think I had forgotten about it. CB's comment about Loctiting one side of the screw in his collars joggled my memory.
I am going to to try simply Loctiting the pins to the collar. I am not highly confident, but Loctite can do amazing things. I will try it, use it this way until if fails. Then I"ll go with the screws.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3459.0;attach=1621)
If it turns out I have to relieve the front corners of the collar, I can pop the pins loose with heat, do the relieving and re-Loctitie them.
Rick
Quote from: RickKrung on January 15, 2018, 04:58:18 AM
CB,
Need for the second pin is for flipping the jig over to grind the other side. Whichever pin is down will be used to set the projection.
I'll go with your thoughts on the screw. You are the one with it your hands on it. I"m sure Loctite would do the trick.
I had some time to work on my pivot pin collar idea today. First photo is of just the collars after turning and drilling.
Second photo is of one pin placed in the top position, to give the notion of how it would look and function in the bottom position. Not sure how much pivoting is necessary, but I may have to relieve the front corner of the collar to allow the pin to carry all the pivot motion.
I'd have waited until it was more complete to post, but I'm completely tuckered out and am ceasing all work activities for the night.
Rick
Looks good! (Earlier you had said 2nd stop collar, not pin, when I said I didn't think you'd need a 2nd one).
How much pivot is dependant on the knife shape... for most knives I think it'll work fine.
Quote from: RickKrung on January 15, 2018, 05:27:22 AM
Found the energy for just a little bit more.
I have detailed CAD drawings for putting screws through the collar into the pins to secure them. I'd been thinking about just trying Loctite, but I think I had forgotten about it. CB's comment about Loctiting one side of the screw in his collars joggled my memory.
I am going to to try simply Loctiting the pins to the collar. I am not highly confident, but Loctite can do amazing things. I will try it, use it this way until if fails. Then I"ll go with the screws.
If it turns out I have to relieve the front corners of the collar, I can pop the pins loose with heat, do the relieving and re-Loctitie them.
Rick
Lookin' good! ;D
Loctite joint seems pretty strong.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3459.0;attach=1625)
Pin Pivot Collar on the jig.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3459.0;attach=1627)
And on the Tormek, showing the maximum angle before hitting the outer edge of the collar. That looks like enough pivot the the knives in my collection, which is well within "most knives".
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3459.0;attach=1629)
Gotta run, so no time now to test it out, but I'm pretty excited.
Rick
Quote from: RickKrung on January 15, 2018, 06:26:33 PM
Loctite joint seems pretty strong.
Pin Pivot Collar on the jig.
And on the Tormek, showing the maximum angle before hitting the outer edge of the collar. That looks like enough pivot the the knives in my collection, which is well within "most knives".
Gotta run, so no time now to test it out, but I'm pretty excited.
Rick
Gotta say, I'm pretty excited too (for me and you). ;) (What version of Loctite did you use?)
I spent the morning sharpening knives of various shapes and sizes... for example this Kershaw with a bit of recurve, and a pretty significant "belly to tip" area...
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3459.0;attach=1631)
... and my "4 collar setup" has worked well. Having the knife jig attached to the USB really gives me better control, especially on the "light alternating finish passes" I'm always recommending. Getting great edges straight off the stone... not even deburring after. (Seriously.) :)
I need to get past the 'honeymoon phase' and work with it a while, but for under $15... some of you may want to give this a shot. The Shaft Collars I got from McMaster-Carr (Part #: 57485K69 (https://www.mcmaster.com/#57485k69)). I would get a M6x12mm long set screw to put them together (I used one I cut from another screws, so no part # sorry). (You might Loctite the part of the screw that goes into the collar that rides on the USB, so it can't turn and contact the USB).
But yeah... really likin' it! 8)
p.s. Rick has been pretty instrumental with suggestions, (thanks again!) and am always open to more, if anyone sees room for improvement or an alternative idea! ;)
Quote from: cbwx34 on January 15, 2018, 09:00:51 PM
Gotta say, I'm pretty excited too (for me and you). ;) (What version of Loctite did you use?)
Loctite 262 Threadlocker High Strength
Not sure if this is the strongest but it is what I use for joining two parts of a mandrel tool that I sell for turning fishing rod reel seats. I've not had any issues with it releasing. It can be made to release with high heat, which I have had occasion to do.
Rick
More on the Pivot Pin Stop.
I milled flats on the side of my two jig shafts and put a set screw in the pivot pin collar. This is what I use on the reel seat mandrel that I sell. In this case it allows the pivot pin stop to slide up and down as the modified threaded stop is adjusted to set the projection. In this case, I will lock the set screw to keep the pivot pin from dropping down the shaft.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3459.0;attach=1637)
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3459.0;attach=1639)
The completed Pivot Pin Stop on the jig and one the machine.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3459.0;attach=1641)
Three stops compared, stock adjustable stop, squared off stop and my Pivot Pin Stop. I modified (shortened) the stop that I had rounded off so that the total length of my Pivot Pin Stop was the same as the original, unmodified stop. The squared off stop is that same length as I did not remove any material from the front face.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3459.0;attach=1643)
Now I just have to make another collar/pin assembly for the other jig and get on with finding out it works as well as I hope.
Rick
. error in posting.
Looks good! (Not the posting error). ;)
Hopefully you'll get a chance to try it soon.
Thanks to another brainstorming session with Rick (Dude's got some skills)... I adapted my collar setup to the KME clamp...
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3459.0;attach=1645)
... so far, so good!!! ;D
I think these new ideas are terrific. Thinking about the title of this topic, "the one change you should make to the Tormek", since I purchased my first Tormek in August of 2009, Tormek has:
Come out with three models, the T4,T8, and T2; Added the DBS_22 drill bit jig; switched to the EZYlock shaft; redesigned the water trough; added the SB SG, DWF, and DWC grinding wheels, the later two being diamond; made the premier gouge jig much improved; Redesigned the square edge jig to incorporate camber control; redesigned and improved numerous jigs; built a teaching studio; redesigned the company website; introduced a workstation and a rubber work mat.
Has Tormek left anything to be improved? I have no inside information, however, past performance makes me believe we will see continue improvements. The forum members have designed some clever things. I hope and believe these creative ideas will continue. I write this to bring to our attention that the Swedes have been doing more than skiing. I think 2018 will be another exciting year for Tormek and the Tormekers.
Ken
Steve Jobs once admitted Apple have always been shameless about stealing great ideas.
Well, Curtis & Rick, you create and I copy - today I shamelessly steal yours.
Quote from: wootz on January 18, 2018, 07:40:34 AM
Steve Jobs once admitted Apple have always been shameless about stealing great ideas.
Well, Curtis & Rick, you create and I copy - today I shamelessly steal yours.
My work here is
DONE! ;)
But seriously, hoping others would, be interesting to see your take on it. (I'm sure mine has room for improvement/alterations). 8)
Quote from: wootz on January 18, 2018, 07:40:34 AM
Steve Jobs once admitted Apple have always been shameless about stealing great ideas.
Well, Curtis & Rick, you create and I copy - today I shamelessly steal yours.
Wootz,
Didn't you plant the seed that grew into this? Didn't round off the front of the stock adjustable stop? If not you, who then? We have someone to thank.
Rick
Quote from: RickKrung on January 19, 2018, 01:12:50 AM
Wootz,
Didn't you plant the seed that grew into this? Didn't round off the front of the stock adjustable stop? If not you, who then? We have someone to thank.
Rick
I think Kavik was the one who first cut down a collar.
It all started in this thread... https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=2589.0
Grab some coffee first! :)
Quote from: cbwx34 on January 19, 2018, 02:15:20 AM
Quote from: RickKrung on January 19, 2018, 01:12:50 AM
Wootz,
Didn't you plant the seed that grew into this? Didn't round off the front of the stock adjustable stop? If not you, who then? We have someone to thank.
Rick
I think Kavik was the one who first cut down a collar.
It all started in this thread... https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=2589.0
Grab some coffee first! :)
Yes, thanks CB, it was Kavik, post #95 on page 7. Thanks Kavik. That is such a great thread. I copied the whole thread off to PDF so I can go back and read in more closely.
Rick
I have completed my pin pivot collar for the knife jigs. The final step was to put a bevel on the sides of the collar so the assembly could rotate further with only the pin in contact with the USB. I put the reliefs on by grinding. I mounted the collar in a step collet in a collet block.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3459.0;attach=1648)
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3459.0;attach=1650)
For grinding, I first ground a rough bevel on a high speed grinder. Then set up the scissors jig platform for grinding on the Tormek. I was using the black stone. There was a surprising amount of chatter, especially for something with as much mass as this. I found there was significantly less chatter just after grading.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3459.0;attach=1660)
Pin Pivot Collar assembled on the jig.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3459.0;attach=1656)
Additional rotation travel with the pivot pin collar.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3459.0;attach=1658)
The only thing left to do is drill, tap and screw the pins in place. I used an oil tolerant threadlocker but it is only medium strength (blue). The high strength (red) earlier didn't prove strong enough, so screws are going to be required. Problem with that is that for the drilling and tapping, I need to use oil cutting fluid. That released the red before, thus, the oil tolerant.
Rick
Quote from: RickKrung on January 19, 2018, 05:22:38 AM
I have completed my pin pivot collar for the knife jigs. The final step was to put a bevel on the sides of the collar so the assembly could rotate further with the only the pin in contact with the USB. I put the reliefs on by grinding. I mounted the collar in a step collet in a collet block.
For grinding, I first ground a rough bevel on a high speed grinder. Then set up the scissors jig platform for grinding on the Tormek.
Pivot pin collar assembled on the jig.
Additional rotation travel with the pivot pin collar.
The only thing left to do is drill, tap and screw the pins in place. I used an oil tolerant threadlocker but it is only medium strength (blue). The high strength (red) earlier didn't prove strong enough, so screws are going to be required. Problem with that is that for the drilling and tapping, I need to use oil cutting fluid. That released the red before, thus, the oil tolerant.
Rick
Man, that looks awesome.
I've learned a lot on this adventure... beyond just making a new pivot. You do some amazing work.
I'm impressed. Great work!
Ken
Thanks guys. All part of the fun.
While working with CB offline on his collared stop, I noticed a spring on the tail end of the his KME jig and I wondered if a spring on the Tormek jigs couldn't be used for 1) setting the projection at one distance and 2) allowing for extending the projection when you get to the curved tip. The spring would need to be short and strong enough to hold the initial position and weak enough to allow the jig to be pushed forward with a bit of force applied.
I stopped at a hardware store yesterday to look for springs. I got a couple but they are not what I am looking for. The one pictured is way too long and too weak, but it does illustrate the concept.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3459.0;attach=1662)
It would probably take a bit of developed skill to maintain the initial projection and be able to apply the right amount of force at the right time as the curve of the blade crosses the stone. I believe a laser line would be essential for helping maintain the proper projection over the full length of the blade.
Thoughts?
Rick
I have started to sharpened my first knife with my new Pin Pivot Collar stop on the Tormek jig. I am thinking I don't need to mess with the spring loaded thing.
First, however, is that I made a mount for a laser module so I could have a reference line on the stone. I like it.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3459.0;attach=1676)
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3459.0;attach=1678)
After getting the laser mounted on the Tormek, I checked out blade positioning along the straight portion of the blade.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3459.0;attach=1680)
And in the middle of the curved part of the blade with lifting and pivoting.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3459.0;attach=1682)
And then the tip. I found I could keep the portion of the bevel being ground on the stone right at the line, maintaining the bevel angle.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3459.0;attach=1684)
The resulting bevel is the most uniform I have done yet. I haven't finished this blade yet, but I was so psyched about the results, I wanted to share it.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3459.0;attach=1686)
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3459.0;attach=1688)
Rick
Quote from: RickKrung on January 20, 2018, 03:03:06 AM
I have started to sharpened my first knife with my new Pin Pivot Collar stop on the Tormek jig. I am thinking I don't need to mess with the spring loaded thing.
First, however, is that I made a mount for a laser module so I could have a reference line on the stone. I like it.
After getting the laser mounted on the Tormek, I checked out blade positioning along the straight portion of the blade.
And in the middle of the curved part of the blade with lifting and pivoting.
And then the tip. I found I could keep the portion of the bevel being ground on the stone right at the line, maintaining the bevel angle.
The resulting bevel is the most uniform I have done yet. I haven't finished this blade yet, but I was so psyched about the results, I wanted to share it.
Rick
As always.... Lookin' good! ;)
I do think your "spring" idea has potential in some fashion. I tried it with the KME spring... it was way too stiff to actually use, but gave an idea of how it would work. But definitely a good concept that in some form might be a benefit. (Just converting to a smaller pivot though, as you found, increases the capability of the current jig to cover more knife shapes & sizes).
For the benefit of others reading, (I know Rick already knows this), the laser is not necessary for this setup. (It becomes more useful freehand or if you completely remove the stop from a jig). You can simply draw a line on the stone to check that the knife is tracking close to the line. (Also, this doesn't set the angle, just insures you're staying close to the same spot on the stone). Laser is a nice (and fun) addition though ("Laser Guided Sharpening" sounds cool too). 8)
Glad it's working out for you, and thanks for sharing the benefit! ;D (What's next?) :D ;)
Rick, as a pioneer in the usage of laser line for sharpening on Tormek I have to congratulate you to your very inventive, simple and practical solution. :)
Your laser holder sliding along the second USB is a perfect solution. Thanks for sharing this idea with us.
Jan
Quote from: cbwx34 on January 20, 2018, 03:50:09 PM
As always.... Lookin' good! ;)
I do think your "spring" idea has potential in some fashion. I tried it with the KME spring... it was way too stiff to actually use, but gave an idea of how it would work. But definitely a good concept that in some form might be a benefit. (Just converting to a smaller pivot though, as you found, increases the capability of the current jig to cover more knife shapes & sizes).
For the benefit of others reading, (I know Rick already knows this), the laser is not necessary for this setup. (It becomes more useful freehand or if you completely remove the stop from a jig). You can simply draw a line on the stone to check that the knife is tracking close to the line. (Also, this doesn't set the angle, just insures you're staying close to the same spot on the stone). Laser is a nice (and fun) addition though ("Laser Guided Sharpening" sounds cool too). 8)
Glad it's working out for you, and thanks for sharing the benefit! ;D (What's next?) :D ;)
I'll watch with anticipation to see how you may find a way with the spring thing. The Pin Pivot stop works so well, I do not feel the need for it. I have thought of removing the stop altogether, as you mention because the laser line allows keeping the bevel in the same place, the stop just may not be necessary, even making the user do more work than is necessary.
Kinda like free-hand or using a platform. I liked the consistency of the platform, but didn't like how it scratched the blade. I have have not had scratching occur using the jigs (I know others have).
I don't know what is next. Maybe just sharpening some knives.
Rick
Quote from: Jan on January 20, 2018, 05:12:59 PM
Rick, as a pioneer in the usage of laser line for sharpening on Tormek I have to congratulate you to your very inventive, simple and practical solution. :)
Your laser holder sliding along the second USB is a perfect solution. Thanks for sharing this idea with us.
Jan
Thank you, Jan. And thank you for your contribution on the laser pointer.
I do enjoy the process of designing and making things like this. I also enjoy what is essentially a collaborative process of sharing of ideas and how we each implement things. Such as, I was somewhat stumped about how to mount the laser. I'd thought of a couple ways, but they would have been kludgy. Then CB's USB extension came up and I made one. If you notice my the photos, that is what the second USB is mounted in. And my Pin Pivot stop and CB's KME grew out of Kavik's cutting off the wide flange of the Tormek stop.
I hope Tormek is paying attention. The Pin Pivot stop is difficult to make as I have done it. Requires machining capabilities, so few will likely try it. But it is dumb, stupid simple for mass production as a casting. As a one piece item, it would be limited to half-turn adjustment, but could probably be made to rotate and maintain vertical orientation of the pins by using a flat on the side of the jig shaft and a "key" on the ID of the casting (eliminate the set screw).
Rick
Quote from: RickKrung on January 20, 2018, 07:09:51 PM
...
Then CB's USB extension came up and I made one. If you notice my the photos, that is what the second USB is mounted in.
...
I hope Tormek is paying attention.
Rick
I can't take credit for the extension... I stole the idea. I'm not sure who came up with it first. Jan published a parts list... wootz sells a version on his website, and probably others. :)
I hope Tormek is paying attention too. ??? I may post something on Facebook (although not really into FB)... they seem more responsive over there actually. :-\
Quote from: RickKrung on January 20, 2018, 06:56:17 PM
I'll watch with anticipation to see how you may find a way with the spring thing. The Pin Pivot stop works so well, I do not feel the need for it. I have thought of removing the stop altogether, as you mention because the laser line allows keeping the bevel in the same place, the stop just may not be necessary, even making the user do more work than is necessary.
Kinda like free-hand or using a platform. I liked the consistency of the platform, but didn't like how it scratched the blade. I have have not had scratching occur using the jigs (I know others have).
...
Rick
You may be in for a wait... like you, I'm pretty happy with the current setup... so no actual plans to pursue the spring idea... unless the need arises... :o
Quote from: RickKrung on January 20, 2018, 06:56:17 PM
I don't know what is next. Maybe just sharpening some knives.
Man, way to kill the mood. ;)
(Kidding of course).Enjoy!
The spring-loaded version is definitely a solution for grinding concaved and S-shaped blades away from the wheel (edge-trailing), as maintaining the edge curve at the Laser LOC is currently a pain.
The laser module holder better be extended by 10cm and have 2 extra 12mm holes in the middle and at the opposite end for use on both the horizontal US, and the vertical.
Rick, please check your PM.
Quote from: cbwx34 on January 20, 2018, 08:55:39 PM
Quote from: RickKrung on January 20, 2018, 06:56:17 PM
I'll watch with anticipation to see how you may find a way with the spring thing. The Pin Pivot stop works so well, I do not feel the need for it. I have thought of removing the stop altogether, as you mention because the laser line allows keeping the bevel in the same place, the stop just may not be necessary, even making the user do more work than is necessary.
Kinda like free-hand or using a platform. I liked the consistency of the platform, but didn't like how it scratched the blade. I have have not had scratching occur using the jigs (I know others have).
...
Rick
You may be in for a wait... like you, I'm pretty happy with the current setup... so no actual plans to pursue the spring idea... unless the need arises... :o
Quote from: RickKrung on January 20, 2018, 06:56:17 PM
I don't know what is next. Maybe just sharpening some knives.
Man, way to kill the mood. ;)
(Kidding of course).
Enjoy!
I gave freehanding with the knife jig a try. Worked pretty good, but the shaft needs to be longer for a better grip and control of the inward and outward movement.
I set the projection using Jan's jig with the stop in place (any stop would work).
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3459.0;attach=1692)
Then using Wootz's applet, determine the USB height and then set the laser location.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3459.0;attach=1690)
Then, working from the front because I can't see the laser line very well from the rear, begin the grinding, straight first.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3459.0;attach=1694)
Then the curve. I found I needed to pull back through the curve, but pushing out for the tip.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3459.0;attach=1696)
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3459.0;attach=1698)
Like I said above, the shaft needs to be longer. I'm thinking of cutting the shaft off near the head of the jig and grafting in an extension. I don't have any rod of that diameter so would have to turn it down from larger stock.
It was a bit on the slow side, but I think with practice and a longer shaft the speed should improve.
Rick
Quote from: cbwx34 on January 20, 2018, 08:55:39 PM
Man, way to kill the mood. ;)
(Kidding of course).
Enjoy!
I'll provide a teaser. Recall me trying to motorize the Truing Tool, but didn't like the misalignment and vibration? I received some 10mm threaded rod for making a new drive screw that so I can make a smooth shafted drive connection. I also got a misalignment tolerant coupler and some ball bearings to mount the shaft in the tool.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3459.0;attach=1700)
Rick
I have received one request to make a set of Pivot Pin Collars.
If anyone else is interested, please let me know. I am not interested in spending a lot time fabricating very many of these. If enough are interested, I can get a fabrication quote from the CNC machine shop where I get my reel seat mandrels made.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3459.0;attach=1702)
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3459.0;attach=1704)
Rick
Quote from: RickKrung on January 20, 2018, 09:46:58 PM
I gave freehanding with the knife jig a try. Worked pretty good, but the shaft needs to be longer for a better grip and control of the inward and outward movement.
I set the projection using Jan's jig with the stop in place (any stop would work).
Then using Wootz's applet, determine the USB height and then set the laser location.
Then, working from the front because I can't see the laser line very well from the rear, begin the grinding, straight first.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3459.0;attach=1694)
Then the curve. I found I needed to pull back through the curve, but pushing out for the tip.
Like I said above, the shaft needs to be longer. I'm thinking of cutting the shaft off near the head of the jig and grafting in an extension. I don't have any rod of that diameter so would have to turn it down from larger stock.
It was a bit on the slow side, but I think with practice and a longer shaft the speed should improve.
Rick
I'll have to give this some thought and a try... all my freehand sharpening with the jig was from the front of the machine, sharpening off the USB conversion, using the Laser as a guide (I had another idea in mind at the time). (I spin the machine around to sharpen off the vertical USB, and haven't done it "guided freehand"). :-\ (A quick try... I think it would work better, but doesn't solve the laser view issue).
(I knew you'd have other projects in the wings). ;)
Quote from: RickKrung on January 20, 2018, 09:46:58 PM
I gave freehanding with the knife jig a try. Worked pretty good, but the shaft needs to be longer for a better grip and control of the inward and outward movement.
Temporary solution?
I threaded the regular Stop Collar on backwards... gave me something to hang onto.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3459.0;attach=1706)
Might give that a try as a temporary solution. :-\
Quote from: wootz on January 20, 2018, 09:02:17 PM
The spring-loaded version is definitely a solution for grinding concaved and S-shaped blades away from the wheel (edge-trailing), as maintaining the edge curve at the Laser LOC is currently a pain.
Gonna give it a try? (Hope so!) ;)
Quote from: cbwx34 on January 21, 2018, 01:05:43 AM
Temporary solution?
I threaded the regular Stop Collar on backwards... gave me something to hang onto.
Might give that a try as a temporary solution. :-\
Yes, good thought. I tried the stock stop with the large flange. Seemed too bulky, required me to move my whole hand. Then I tried the squared off stop (one in the middle) where only the flange had been removed. Much better feel and much finer control with just the fingers. Haven't actually tried sharpening yet, just holding them on the USB. Will try both in actual sharpening.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3459.0;attach=1708)
Pivot Pin Stop on the right, on the turned down threaded stop, I added the locking knob. I will do that to the squared off one too, to allow adjusting position and have it stay in that location. Turning them around precludes using the O rings and I didn't think they were positive enough anyhow.
Rick
I love what you have done with the Pivot Pin stop collar Rick, fantastic evolution and kept it simple too.
Let me know if your going to make a couple of extra as I would be interested for sure.
Quote from: Crusty on January 21, 2018, 02:35:09 AM
I love what you have done with the Pivot Pin stop collar Rick, fantastic evolution and kept it simple too.
Let me know if your going to make a couple of extra as I would be interested for sure.
Thanks. Nice when it works out that way. Sometimes (maybe often), I can make things more complicated than they need to be. I will not be making a few of these in my shop to sell. I can't stand on my feet for long periods of time and that stuff is boring. I did too much production work in my father's shop as a young man. I will only make these available by having a run of parts made by my CNC shop. To do that, I need commitments, solid numbers.
I will collect names of those interested and if/when it seems like there is enough interest, I'll poll everyone for a final count. In the meantime, I will get a production cost quote from the shop and let everyone know how much that would be. That is a big part of things for most everyone.
Rick
Rick I totally understand (no pun intended) about being on your feet mate, been doing it for 38 years in cabinet shops etc.
Ken, do we have a thread/topic area where we can put a small intro or summary of what we have done/doing/skills etc and how we came across Tormeks?
Crusty,
I have mixed feelings about a separate relevant conversation/ background portion of the forum. It seems an organized way to do things. I have read the odd disgruntled comment that this is just a chat room. For the record, I disagree with those comments. We do get off topic sometimes. (Frankly, I usually enjoy these diversions,) However, the majority of the topics and replies are on subject. We have some amazing topics, like the six page (so far) topic on "the one change". I am not bothered by the mix, however, I am just a member/moderator and not the supreme commander.
I think a logical solution, if it is posdible, would be to invlude an optional bio/background line on the individual member page. Heaven help the unfortunate member trying to learn about my background sifting through my 4200+ wordy posts! One click to my member page would be so much easier.
Ken
Quote from: cbwx34 on January 15, 2018, 09:00:51 PM
...
I spent the morning sharpening knives of various shapes and sizes...
...
I need to get past the 'honeymoon phase' and work with it a while, ...
...
So, today I moved a bit past the 'honeymoon phase'... :-\
Most of the knives I practiced on were EDC style and or hunting/camping style knives (which, as I've said before, is where the standard collar is a bit lacking).
Today I sharpened an 8" Chef's knife, and learned, that this is probably the limit of the "4 Collar" setup I'm using. The Stop Collar that is sliding on the USB hits the upright of the USB at this point.
Could probably "squeeze" out a little more length, but at this point, easier to switch to a different setup.
Still like it for the above mentioned knives though (my favorite to sharpen).... ;)
Thank you to everyone who contributes to this thread (and forum). It is a wealth of information.
I made my own version of Herman's support for a total of $4.05 shipped (not counting the two m5 bolts and the m6 bolt) with Aliexpress parts, to avoid having to disassemble it every time I wanted to use the scissor jig.
-SK12 linear shaft support: $1.37 shipped
-Aluminium alloy plate 5mmx40mm, length 100mm: $ 2.68 shipped
I use a 40mm wide plate to match my CBN wheels. It may work fine with the 50mm Tormek wheels but I've never tried it.
The existing screw on the linear shaft support is small and weak, so I removed it and drilled/tapped an M6 thread so I could use an M6 bolt. The aluminium plate was tapped to fit two m5 bolts corresponding to the holes on the linear shaft support. If you don't have a tap set, you can find decent HSS ones for ~$5 shipped. I filed the lip of the aluminium plate and a little bit off of the corner of the linear shaft support (towards the tormek USB) to be able to go down to a sharpening angle of 10 degrees on 250mm wheels, mainly for scandi grinds. I also scored the inside of the 12mm hole with a file to make it more grippy.
The support is rock solid and performs well. Tightening it to the Tormek bar takes a little too much force to be able to use an m6 knob such as those found on the Tormek jigs so it's inferior to Herman's support in that aspect. This could be remedied by sawing two slots on each side of the linear shaft support where it bends to clamp the tormek USB, but I don't mind using a wrench.
To be honest I don't use it much because I'm more comfortable with the regular knife jig, with a modified collar similar to those found in this thread. I mainly lift the handle to compensate for curvature (mimicking the technique Jeff Farris shows in his videos) though I like the single pivot point when I need to do small adjustments. I get good results (for me) even on small curved knives but I understand professional knife sharpeners may have different standards than I do regarding the knife point profile.
The modified collar I use is just a piece of U-shape extruded aluminium bent into a triangle for the pivot, and epoxied to a 12mm drill depth stop. Originally I was going to make something less ugly, using a "SHF12 12mm horizontal linear shaft support" (~$2 shipped on AliExpress) and a piece of T-shape extruded aluminium epoxied to it for the pivot. The prototype I made works well enough and I never bothered. The only improvement I'll make is to eventually stick two folded pieces of PTFE where the USB rubs against it, instead of the clear tape I currently use.
Puffin,
Your use of linear shaft support is clever. I would guess that your 40mm width would work quite acceptably with the larger 50mm width Tormek grinding wheels.
I think it is regrettable that Tormek has not chosen to manufacture a small platform jig. Tormek already owns the patent for the Torlock. As you have already encountered, preventing a shaft from slipping with a round hole is problematic. The Torlock accomplishes this quite nicely with its wedged locking design. Less torque produces a tighter lock.
The original purpose of the small platform jig was to sharpen very small knives. Herman has demonstrated that its utility extends beyond that. I have long believed that the next step in its evolution will be interchangeable platforms. Such platforms, especially when combined with the new diamond wheels, will make shaping and sharpening metal lathe tool bits practical. I believe the primary limitation for the small platform jig is our level of imagination.
Keep imaginng! You have good thinking. By the way, the next time you are in a good hardware store, look at the assortment of threaded plastic knobs. The Tormek locking knobs use M6 thread, roughly the metric equivalent of the common 1/4 x 20 thread. I have a collection of different shaped locking knobs. The standard Tormek round knobs work in all cases, however, I believe other shapes sometimes work better, especially with arthritic hands. Tormek is an excellent product. I think Tormek plus imagination may be better.
Just my opinion.
Ken
Quote from: puffin on April 20, 2018, 05:32:34 AM
Thank you to everyone who contributes to this thread (and forum). It is a wealth of information.
I made my own version of Herman's support for a total of $4.05 shipped (not counting the two m5 bolts and the m6 bolt) with Aliexpress parts, to avoid having to disassemble it every time I wanted to use the scissor jig.
-SK12 linear shaft support: $1.37 shipped
-Aluminium alloy plate 5mmx40mm, length 100mm: $ 2.68 shipped
I use a 40mm wide plate to match my CBN wheels. It may work fine with the 50mm Tormek wheels but I've never tried it.
The existing screw on the linear shaft support is small and weak, so I removed it and drilled/tapped an M6 thread so I could use an M6 bolt. The aluminium plate was tapped to fit two m5 bolts corresponding to the holes on the linear shaft support. If you don't have a tap set, you can find decent HSS ones for ~$5 shipped. I filed the lip of the aluminium plate and a little bit off of the corner of the linear shaft support (towards the tormek USB) to be able to go down to a sharpening angle of 10 degrees on 250mm wheels, mainly for scandi grinds. I also scored the inside of the 12mm hole with a file to make it more grippy.
The support is rock solid and performs well. Tightening it to the Tormek bar takes a little too much force to be able to use an m6 knob such as those found on the Tormek jigs so it's inferior to Herman's support in that aspect. This could be remedied by sawing two slots on each side of the linear shaft support where it bends to clamp the tormek USB, but I don't mind using a wrench.
To be honest I don't use it much because I'm more comfortable with the regular knife jig, with a modified collar similar to those found in this thread. I mainly lift the handle to compensate for curvature (mimicking the technique Jeff Farris shows in his videos) though I like the single pivot point when I need to do small adjustments. I get good results (for me) even on small curved knives but I understand professional knife sharpeners may have different standards than I do regarding the knife point profile.
The modified collar I use is just a piece of U-shape extruded aluminium bent into a triangle for the pivot, and epoxied to a 12mm drill depth stop. Originally I was going to make something less ugly, using a "SHF12 12mm horizontal linear shaft support" (~$2 shipped on AliExpress) and a piece of T-shape extruded aluminium epoxied to it for the pivot. The prototype I made works well enough and I never bothered. The only improvement I'll make is to eventually stick two folded pieces of PTFE where the USB rubs against it, instead of the clear tape I currently use.
Thanks for posting your version of the modified collar for the knife jig. Looks good! Your version of the platform jig looks well made also. I'll have to look thru the info you provided. (Someday I'll make one...). :o
Thanks again! I like seeing other versions of these ideas.
Quote from: Ken S on April 20, 2018, 01:35:43 PMYour use of linear shaft support is clever. I would guess that your 40mm width would work quite acceptably with the larger 50mm width Tormek grinding wheels.
I appreciate you weighing in!
Quote from: Ken S on April 20, 2018, 01:35:43 PM
I think it is regrettable that Tormek has not chosen to manufacture a small platform jig. Tormek already owns the patent for the Torlock. As you have already encountered, preventing a shaft from slipping with a round hole is problematic. The Torlock accomplishes this quite nicely with its wedged locking design. Less torque produces a tighter lock.
True. It does seem that only Tormek could make the ideal version of the platform since they own that patent.
Quote from: Ken S on April 20, 2018, 01:35:43 PMThe original purpose of the small platform jig was to sharpen very small knives. Herman has demonstrated that its utility extends beyond that. I have long believed that the next step in its evolution will be interchangeable platforms. Such platforms, especially when combined with the new diamond wheels, will make shaping and sharpening metal lathe tool bits practical. I believe the primary limitation for the small platform jig is our level of imagination.
I mainly sharpen knives, chisels and scissors so I haven't had much use for a platform yet, but that could change. It could be used with the leather honing wheel for a quicker setup since I'd only need to mark the USB position for common angles, but again I'm more comfortable with the regular knife jig. I can remove burrs freehand just fine, but for actual polishing with the leather wheel I get better results using the jigs (which is why I replaced the knob with a bolt on the knife jig to clear the USB, another tip I got from here).
Quote from: Ken S on April 20, 2018, 01:35:43 PMKeep imaginng! You have good thinking.
That's kind of you to say!
Quote from: Ken S on April 20, 2018, 01:35:43 PMBy the way, the next time you are in a good hardware store, look at the assortment of threaded plastic knobs. The Tormek locking knobs use M6 thread, roughly the metric equivalent of the common 1/4 x 20 thread. I have a collection of different shaped locking knobs. The standard Tormek round knobs work in all cases, however, I believe other shapes sometimes work better, especially with arthritic hands. Tormek is an excellent product. I think Tormek plus imagination may be better.
You're right that other knobs could be better-suited to apply more force. I tried the knob from the SVS-38 but a wrench is quicker and more comfortable. The aluminium in the linear shaft support is quite rigid and resists tightening, but if one were to remove a bit of metal from where is bends maybe the M6 Tormek locking knobs would work fine.
Quote from: cbwx34 on April 20, 2018, 03:15:20 PMThanks for posting your version of the modified collar for the knife jig. Looks good! Your version of the platform jig looks well made also. I'll have to look thru the info you provided. (Someday I'll make one...). :o
Thanks again! I like seeing other versions of these ideas.
Glad you like it despite its appearance! As you can see I'm no machinist.
Quote from: puffin on April 21, 2018, 06:24:48 AM
...
Quote from: cbwx34 on April 20, 2018, 03:15:20 PMThanks for posting your version of the modified collar for the knife jig. Looks good! Your version of the platform jig looks well made also. I'll have to look thru the info you provided. (Someday I'll make one...). :o
Thanks again! I like seeing other versions of these ideas.
Glad you like it despite its appearance! As you can see I'm no machinist.
Certainly better than I could do... but I see the beauty in its function. ;)
I neglected to mention that my motivation for exploring other shapes of locking knobs was to assist older users whose hands are no longer strong. Hopefully, by this stage of life, we have also acquired some knowledge and wisdom about torque.
Muscular young users should stay with the standard knobs.
Ken
This is my own current working prototype of Herman's knife rest with a piece of Torlock attached to it.
It already works quite well, but i still have 2 possible modifications i want to try out.
(https://s31.postimg.cc/kvfmqwndj/GEDC1941.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/kvfmqwndj/)(https://s31.postimg.cc/xzl73nsav/GEDC1942.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/xzl73nsav/)(https://s31.postimg.cc/bnnea8ybr/GEDC1943.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/bnnea8ybr/)
(https://s31.postimg.cc/tdp2vajmf/GEDC1945.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/tdp2vajmf/)(https://s31.postimg.cc/lxpt9hghj/GEDC1946.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/lxpt9hghj/)(https://s31.postimg.cc/ufz9dtfaf/GEDC1947.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/ufz9dtfaf/)
(https://s31.postimg.cc/l870x40if/GEDC1948.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/l870x40if/)(https://s31.postimg.cc/5zh3jd9ev/GEDC1949.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/5zh3jd9ev/)
Well done, kwakster.
I really believe we have only scratched the surface of the versatility of the small platform jig when used in skilled hands.
Keep innovating!
Ken
Quote from: kwakster on April 22, 2018, 07:57:18 PM
This is my own current working prototype of Herman's knife rest with a piece of Torlock attached to it.
It already works quite well, but i still have 2 possible modifications i want to try out.
...
Nice job. (Of course now I want to know the mods you're considering)...
Quote from: Ken S on April 23, 2018, 03:03:14 AM
Well done, kwakster.
I really believe we have only scratched the surface of the versatility of the small platform jig when used in skilled hands.
Keep innovating!
Ken
Hmmmm... (Freudian slip?) ;)
Quote from: kwakster on April 22, 2018, 07:57:18 PMThis is my own current working prototype of Herman's knife rest with a piece of Torlock attached to it.
It already works quite well, but i still have 2 possible modifications i want to try out.
Looks good, with easier locking compared to mine. Seems like it can be made without sacrificing the function of the tool rest/scissors jig by keeping 2/3 of the Torlock on them intact (or just make 3 of them with a single SVD-110). I too am curious about those modifications.
I made two platform jigs, one each for the 50mm width T7 and 40mm T4 by cutting an SVD-110 on my bandsaw. The aluminum cuts easily. My jig had a second locking screw hole with a plastic cap. The jigs work satisfactoraly, however, using the scissors jig like Herman did makes a platform with a lower center of gravity. In my opinion, Herman's design is superior. I have just the platform and locking screw parts ordered to make another platform. I have no need for a duplicate scissors jigand by just using parts I can leave the platform set up.
Eventually, I plan to explore interchangeable platforms (after completing assembly of my grandson's 3D printer.
Ken
ps I think it is interesting that this "one change" topic already has ninety nine replies!
Quote from: Ken S on April 23, 2018, 02:58:50 PM
I made two platform jigs, one each for the 50mm width T7 and 40mm T4 by cutting an SVD-110 on my bandsaw. The aluminum cuts easily. My jig had a second locking screw hole with a plastic cap. The jigs work satisfactoraly, however, using the scissors jig like Herman did makes a platform with a lower center of gravity. In my opinion, Herman's design is superior. I have just the platform and locking screw parts ordered to make another platform. I have no need for a duplicate scissors jigand by just using parts I can leave the platform set up.
Eventually, I plan to explore interchangeable platforms (after completing assembly of my grandson's 3D printer.
Ken
ps I think it is interesting that this "one change" topic already has ninety nine replies!
Pictures.... pictures... 8)
(I did say "one change"... just didn't say which one). ;) Definitely been a journey! :D
The first mod i have in mind is to connect the underside of the knife rest to the underside of the Torlock part with a piece of aluminium, with the aim to stiffen up the whole construction by making something of a triangular shape.
Currently there is a little bit of flex at the hollowed end, which can make the aluminium touch the stone sometimes when in use.
If Tormek were ever to make such a knife rest i would like to see a stiff one-piece extruded (maybe 7075) aluminium construction with a triangular shape & an integral Torlock, so the end product would have as little flex as possible.
The second mod is currently still in the brainfart stadium due to this question that keeps nagging me:
What would the cross section of a freshly sharpened knife bevel look like if the knife rest didn't have a flat surface like it has now, but instead would be ever so slightly triangular like a very shallow roof on a house ?
In theory i think i know the answer, but i'm not yet convinced about the feasibility of such a mod.
Quote from: kwakster on April 25, 2018, 04:09:52 PM
The first mod i have in mind is to connect the underside of the knife rest to the underside of the Torlock part with a piece of aluminium, with the aim to stiffen up the whole construction by making something of a triangular shape.
Currently there is a little bit of flex at the hollowed end, which can make the aluminium touch the stone sometimes when in use.
If Tormek were ever to make such a knife rest i would like to see a stiff one-piece extruded (maybe 7075) aluminium construction with a triangular shape & an integral Torlock, so the end product would have as little flex as possible.
The second mod is currently still in the brainfart stadium due to this question that keeps nagging me:
What would the cross section of a freshly sharpened knife bevel look like if the knife rest didn't have a flat surface like it has now, but instead would be ever so slightly triangular like a very shallow roof on a house ?
In theory i think i know the answer, but i'm not yet convinced about the feasibility of such a mod.
Thanks. (But you have me stumped on the tringular mod). ???
My working prototype with the triangular mod done.
The piece of aluminium connecting the Torlock piece with the underside of the platform practically eliminates the little bit of flex there was at the very end of it.
(https://s7.postimg.cc/x826ew96v/GEDC2038.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/x826ew96v/)(https://s7.postimg.cc/nnijs1u5j/GEDC2039.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/nnijs1u5j/)
(https://s7.postimg.cc/g7ja68yqf/GEDC2040.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/g7ja68yqf/)(https://s7.postimg.cc/57y2umsvr/GEDC2041.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/57y2umsvr/)
(https://s7.postimg.cc/6zr1pj4iv/GEDC2042.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/6zr1pj4iv/)(https://s7.postimg.cc/cnxcgf15j/GEDC2043.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/cnxcgf15j/)
Kwakster,
Very nice design. I especially like your inclusion of the triangle support. Positioning the lock screw in the back makes for good clearance, too.
Good work!
Ken
Nice update kwakster... I'm pretty sure your 1st version is what made me think of using the T-2 jig. I liked it.
The home made platform as i currently use it.
(https://i.postimg.cc/kBGN1xhZ/GEDC2395.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/kBGN1xhZ)
On top is a piece of 0.3 mm thin fiber reinforced PTFE tape, which aids very well in moving the blade across the platform and also to avoid scratches while doing that (up to a point)
When used in conjunction with just enough water in the trough so that it doesn't splash the platform the tape lasts quite a while before i have to replace it with another piece.
At the moment the lowest angle i can grind to is ~22.5 degrees inclusive, but in the end i want to be able to go ~20 degrees inclusive.
I've already sharpened quite a few knives with this taped platform.
Nice set up, Kwakster. In my opinion, Herman's homemade small continues to be a major advance for Tormek sharpening. However, just as I do not believe that Fords are the only horseless carriages of note, I do not believe that Herman's design is the only good choice. I happen to see great potential in using parts of the T2 knife jig as used by CB. It offers a very compact design while still retaining the all important (patented by Tormek) Torlock for very secure holding power.
Based only on my gut feeling, I would gravitate toward Herman's design for larger work, like his now famous machete. I would favor Kwakster's design for smaller work, although I know either can handle the entire job.
Ken
ps For our European members, I realize that Gottlieb Daimler and Karl Benz each independently built an automobile before Henry Ford. As an American, I must cling to our myths.