https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=3493.0
I found a reason for the above problem. It was a tilted collar.(Rotating the collar doesn't solve the it) I have two SVM-45, but all have this problem.
Have you ever been discussed about this issue before?
Is there a way I can solve it myself?
Hi,
Looking at your pictures I see that the knife is not mounted correct in the jig. Instead of having pressure in the opening of the jaws, the knife is locked into place in the jig and that will not lock the knife properly. So the Square in the picture is where you have locked the knife into place and it should be clamped so the jaws are in contact with the blade in front, the cirkle in the picture.
When the knife is mounted in the jig like your pictures, the blade is twisted in the jig which causes your problem.
Sincerely,
Stig
Sharpco,
I am pleased that Stig (Stickan) replied. I have known Stig for several years, and am continually impressed with how much Tormek knowledge he has, especially with knives. His knowledge combines his personal fascination with knives and sharpening; access to resources and coworkers with Tormek's over forty years of experience; and a wealth of information from working with knife experts throughout the world.
One of the reasons I believe in work methods which standardize parts of the operation, like the kenjig or Wootz' KnifeGrinders computer program, is that the time saved allows us to spend more time on other parts, like aligning the knife in the jig, and remain within the same total time. By automating setting the bevel angle, our minds are free to concentrate more fully on things like jig alignment and the actual grinding.
May I offer two minor constructive suggestions on your photographs in this topic? First, the part where the knife is clamped into the jig is very dark. Using a white piece of paper as a reflector might put some light into that area, making it more easily seen. Another idea would be to use a light source such as a work light or flashlight. You don't need much light, just enough to raise the level from dark gray to middle gray. If the light is too bright, moving it further away will help balance it. Or, if the light source is cool, like an LED light, placing a paper towel or handkerchief over it will lessen it.
Second, your point of sharp focus is too close. if you are using a close up mode on your camera, the default focus point is often the closest area. In this case, that is the etching on your knife. Switching to a focusing option which allows you to use a single point aimed where you want it will correct this.
Metal is difficult to photograph. Your questions are well chosen and deserve photos which are on the same level.
Good topic. Keep up the good work.
Ken
Quote from: Stickan on January 29, 2018, 08:40:44 AM
Hi,
Looking at your pictures I see that the knife is not mounted correct in the jig. Instead of having pressure in the opening of the jaws, the knife is locked into place in the jig and that will not lock the knife properly. So the Square in the picture is where you have locked the knife into place and it should be clamped so the jaws are in contact with the blade in front, the cirkle in the picture.
When the knife is mounted in the jig like your pictures, the blade is twisted in the jig which causes your problem.
Sincerely,
Stig
I did what you said, and the difference became worse.
BTW, is it intentional for the tilt of the collar?
Quote from: Ken S on January 29, 2018, 10:59:45 AM
Sharpco,
I am pleased that Stig (Stickan) replied. I have known Stig for several years, and am continually impressed with how much Tormek knowledge he has, especially with knives. His knowledge combines his personal fascination with knives and sharpening; access to resources and coworkers with Tormek's over forty years of experience; and a wealth of information from working with knife experts throughout the world.
One of the reasons I believe in work methods which standardize parts of the operation, like the kenjig or Wootz' KnifeGrinders computer program, is that the time saved allows us to spend more time on other parts, like aligning the knife in the jig, and remain within the same total time. By automating setting the bevel angle, our minds are free to concentrate more fully on things like jig alignment and the actual grinding.
May I offer two minor constructive suggestions on your photographs in this topic? First, the part where the knife is clamped into the jig is very dark. Using a white piece of paper as a reflector might put some light into that area, making it more easily seen. Another idea would be to use a light source such as a work light or flashlight. You don't need much light, just enough to raise the level from dark gray to middle gray. If the light is too bright, moving it further away will help balance it. Or, if the light source is cool, like an LED light, placing a paper towel or handkerchief over it will lessen it.
Second, your point of sharp focus is too close. if you are using a close up mode on your camera, the default focus point is often the closest area. In this case, that is the etching on your knife. Switching to a focusing option which allows you to use a single point aimed where you want it will correct this.
Metal is difficult to photograph. Your questions are well chosen and deserve photos which are on the same level.
Good topic. Keep up the good work.
Ken
Thank you, Ken. I'll remember it.
Hi,
Try again, but further back on the blade and with less pressure on the black knob.
Also check if the blade if perfectly flat.
Best,
Stig
Quote from: Stickan on January 29, 2018, 01:58:22 PM
Hi,
Try again, but further back on the blade and with less pressure on the black knob.
Also check if the blade if perfectly flat.
Best,
Stig
If I reduce the pressure of the black knob, the jig will miss the blade. BTW, I jigged a bit further behind the blade but the problem is not solved.
Is this a problem because I don't know how to use the jig? (But I think I have enough understanding of the manual)
Or is the jig's design wrong? I guess not. Because this problem has never been discussed in the forums before.
Or is my 2 jigs all defective? Hmm... I'm very confusing.
If the blade tapers from spine to edge, it needs to be centered in the clamp, and the gap that Stickan is referencing, might be the reason... and the reason it gets "worse" when you try and correct it.
I'm curious though, what you reference was for your third picture. I checked mine using a square referenced against the side and back of the jig, and didn't see a gap...
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3512.0;attach=1796)
... you might consider rechecking this. I would also clamp a blade flat on the sides and see what you get, (if the blade in your photos does taper, it introduces a factor you need to first eliminate to solve this).
Quote from: SHARPCO on January 29, 2018, 05:35:57 AM
I found a reason for the above problem. It was a tilted collar.(Rotating the collar doesn't solve the it) I have two SVM-45, but all have this problem.
Have you ever been discussed about this issue before?
Is there a way I can solve it myself?
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3512.0;attach=1808)
The SVM-45 knife jig shaft is nomially 12mm. Mine measures 11.95-11.98mm. The diameter of the hole in the adjustable collar measures 3x 12.45 - 12.47, the fourth 12.57mm. Of course there will some rocking, but I don't see how that will substantively affect your bevel. It is worse the higher up the shaft the collar is located (see the four photos showing the tilt)
If you are really concerned about it, wrap some masking tape around the shaft to build it up near the front of the collar, but keep it inside the collar so as to not ride on the USB and potentially changing your bevel angle (tape is shown showing for the picture). It took three wraps of blue painters tape to increase the diameter of the shaft on my jig to 12.55mm and there is no rocking at all.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3512.0;attach=1806)
Rick
Quote from: RickKrung on January 29, 2018, 09:10:41 PM
The SVM-45 knife jig shaft is nomially 12mm. Mine measures 11.95-11.98mm. The diameter of the hole in the adjustable collar measures 3x 12.45 - 12.47, the fourth 12.57mm. Of course there will some rocking, but I don't see how that will substantively affect your bevel. It is worse the higher up the shaft the collar is located (see the four photos showing the tilt)
Is your O-ring present? Mine won't tilt without some pressure, more than you'd get in sharpening... the O-ring "pushes back".
(Same question to Sharpco... O-ring still there)? ???
Quote from: cbwx34 on January 30, 2018, 12:15:45 AM
Is your O-ring present? Mine won't tilt without some pressure, more than you'd get in sharpening... the O-ring "pushes back".
(Same question to Sharpco... O-ring still there)? ???
Yes, 'tis. Yes, without th O-ring it is crazy wobbly.
Rick
Quote from: cbwx34 on January 29, 2018, 03:25:15 PM
If the blade tapers from spine to edge, it needs to be centered in the clamp, and the gap that Stickan is referencing, might be the reason... and the reason it gets "worse" when you try and correct it.
I'm curious though, what you reference was for your third picture. I checked mine using a square referenced against the side and back of the jig, and didn't see a gap...
... you might consider rechecking this. I would also clamp a blade flat on the sides and see what you get, (if the blade in your photos does taper, it introduces a factor you need to first eliminate to solve this).
I tried the same with other knives. The other knife showed little difference, but the problem was not completely solved. I have tried many ways to tighten the two knobs in the jig, but I am still having problems.(If the jig is normal and I have misused it, why does not the manual provide guidance?)
And I don't seem to need a reference to my problem. Because the tilt of the collar is easily identified by the eye.
I totally agree with your opinion that tormek should redesign the knife jig.
Quote from: RickKrung on January 29, 2018, 09:10:41 PM
The SVM-45 knife jig shaft is nomially 12mm. Mine measures 11.95-11.98mm. The diameter of the hole in the adjustable collar measures 3x 12.45 - 12.47, the fourth 12.57mm. Of course there will some rocking, but I don't see how that will substantively affect your bevel. It is worse the higher up the shaft the collar is located (see the four photos showing the tilt)
If you are really concerned about it, wrap some masking tape around the shaft to build it up near the front of the collar, but keep it inside the collar so as to not ride on the USB and potentially changing your bevel angle (tape is shown showing for the picture). It took three wraps of blue painters tape to increase the diameter of the shaft on my jig to 12.55mm and there is no rocking at all.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3512.0;attach=1806)
Rick
My jig is not rocking as much as you showed. But I think that it is not a big problem even if it rocks because it will still sharpen the knife symmetrically.
Quote from: cbwx34 on January 30, 2018, 12:15:45 AM
Is your O-ring present? Mine won't tilt without some pressure, more than you'd get in sharpening... the O-ring "pushes back".
(Same question to Sharpco... O-ring still there)? ???
My O-ring is being there. :)
I would try Rick's tape idea... maybe it will "force" the collar to line up with the jig.
Hi,
I think that there might be focus on the wrong thing here.
Personally I have not had many problems sharpening knifes during my years working for Tormek. But I got work-hours with experienced sharpeners in-house and my free-time to learn how to do it properly. Today knifes are my favourite tools to sharpen and I have become a bit of a knife junkie :-)
The jig is designed to be able to sharpen as wide range of knifes as possible.
Rebuilding or make a new jig will in to many cases make it more difficult to sharpen some types of knifes. I have never felt that I needed an upgrade becasue my obstacle has been in my head or hands.
I think that sharpening knifes is the task that needs most experience or longest learning curve when working with our jig system. For the regular user who has 5-10 knifes at home there is not many problems and its a 30 minutes learning curve to do a good job but when it comes to sharpen knifes in a business, you need to learn a lot about blades and how different brands and steel works.
We don't have many problems with the knife jig, question being asked about it is often solved by giving tips about how to use it.
I think it feels most natural to claim its something wrong with the jig when cases like this comes, but how can we be sure that the knife itself is 100% correct or made with a 50/50 grind when it's tapered? Most Japanese knifes are sharpened with a 30/70 edge offset which would show even worse when taking pictures of the angles on both sides.
There is a learning curve that is a bit longer when it comes to knifesharpening becasue the jig is only a help to keep the correct protrusion and even how to follow the edge up against the tip is a learning curve. All the different shapes and angles used for the different kind of user area is something that takes a while to learn.
In general, when I sharpen knifes, I use the marker method to sharpen someones knife with the same angle it had when he/she got it. If they would have a reason to change the angle i would use the WM-200.
What I am saying is pay more attention to the tool that is being sharpened.
Sincerely,
Stig
Quote from: Stickan on January 30, 2018, 08:51:34 AM
Hi,
I think that there might be focus on the wrong thing here.
Personally I have not had many problems sharpening knifes during my years working for Tormek. But I got work-hours with experienced sharpeners in-house and my free-time to learn how to do it properly. Today knifes are my favourite tools to sharpen and I have become a bit of a knife junkie :-)
The jig is designed to be able to sharpen as wide range of knifes as possible.
Rebuilding or make a new jig will in to many cases make it more difficult to sharpen some types of knifes. I have never felt that I needed an upgrade becasue my obstacle has been in my head or hands.
I think that sharpening knifes is the task that needs most experience or longest learning curve when working with our jig system. For the regular user who has 5-10 knifes at home there is not many problems and its a 30 minutes learning curve to do a good job but when it comes to sharpen knifes in a business, you need to learn a lot about blades and how different brands and steel works.
We don't have many problems with the knife jig, question being asked about it is often solved by giving tips about how to use it.
I think it feels most natural to claim its something wrong with the jig when cases like this comes, but how can we be sure that the knife itself is 100% correct or made with a 50/50 grind when it's tapered? Most Japanese knifes are sharpened with a 30/70 edge offset which would show even worse when taking pictures of the angles on both sides.
There is a learning curve that is a bit longer when it comes to knifesharpening becasue the jig is only a help to keep the correct protrusion and even how to follow the edge up against the tip is a learning curve. All the different shapes and angles used for the different kind of user area is something that takes a while to learn.
In general, when I sharpen knifes, I use the marker method to sharpen someones knife with the same angle it had when he/she got it. If they would have a reason to change the angle i would use the WM-200.
What I am saying is pay more attention to the tool that is being sharpened.
Sincerely,
Stig
Stig.
My experience with Tormek is not abundant. I started using Tormek just a year ago and I started the sharpening business with it. And so far, I've sharpened at least 1000 kitchen knives and dozens of high-end knives with Tormek and a knife jig.
I know there's a problem when I use a jig on a thick high-end knife, but I do not want it to matter. In this case, you can set the angle again every time you turn the knife over.
But I have to sharpen very many kitchen knives. So shortening the sharpening time is more important than anything else. So I do not want to check and adjust the angle every time I turn the knife upside down.
I tested with two Victorinox Chef knives and two high-quality German knives at a much higher price. But the results were the same.(Strangely, sometimes the jig is working properly and the angles on both sides are equal.)
About Tormek I don't seem to be a very lucky man.
1. My first Tormek was damaged during shipment and had to be replaced.
2. The second Tormek's TT-50 did not go into support, so I had to fix it myself.
3. The knife jig broke down and had to be replaced.
So I suspect a jig, not a knife. Maybe the two SVM-45s I have are all defective.
I want to check one thing. Is the tilted collar of the jig designed intentionally?
I am the first to say that you have had bad luck with your purchase when it comes to the issue with the SVM-45 and TT-50. How shipping are done is sadly a bit out of my control even if we recommend to always ship with extra boxes and inlays to protect the machine.
I know that you are sharpening many knifes and I did mean to offend you in any way. My answer was a general view from my perspective.
Since I started working with Tormek we have replaced a handful of jigs and when we have measured them, they are within tolerances. One was slightly bent which we of course replaced as we did with your jig too.
Normally we would ask a customer to send the jigs to Sweden for inspection and measure them. In your case, this being your job, and you are far away from Sweden, makes this a bit more complicated.
I suggest that you and me continue this by using support@tormek.se and keep looking on to this issue until you are satisfied with the result.
Best,
Stig
Quote from: Stickan on January 30, 2018, 08:51:34 AM
Hi,
I think that there might be focus on the wrong thing here.
Personally I have not had many problems sharpening knifes during my years working for Tormek. But I got work-hours with experienced sharpeners in-house and my free-time to learn how to do it properly. Today knifes are my favourite tools to sharpen and I have become a bit of a knife junkie :-)
The jig is designed to be able to sharpen as wide range of knifes as possible.
Rebuilding or make a new jig will in to many cases make it more difficult to sharpen some types of knifes. I have never felt that I needed an upgrade becasue my obstacle has been in my head or hands.
I think that sharpening knifes is the task that needs most experience or longest learning curve when working with our jig system. For the regular user who has 5-10 knifes at home there is not many problems and its a 30 minutes learning curve to do a good job but when it comes to sharpen knifes in a business, you need to learn a lot about blades and how different brands and steel works.
We don't have many problems with the knife jig, question being asked about it is often solved by giving tips about how to use it.
I think it feels most natural to claim its something wrong with the jig when cases like this comes, but how can we be sure that the knife itself is 100% correct or made with a 50/50 grind when it's tapered? Most Japanese knifes are sharpened with a 30/70 edge offset which would show even worse when taking pictures of the angles on both sides.
There is a learning curve that is a bit longer when it comes to knifesharpening becasue the jig is only a help to keep the correct protrusion and even how to follow the edge up against the tip is a learning curve. All the different shapes and angles used for the different kind of user area is something that takes a while to learn.
In general, when I sharpen knifes, I use the marker method to sharpen someones knife with the same angle it had when he/she got it. If they would have a reason to change the angle i would use the WM-200.
What I am saying is pay more attention to the tool that is being sharpened.
Sincerely,
Stig
Perhaps you are right that this isn't the thread for it, but I'll stand by what I've said before. The knife jig is in need of an upgrade... at least in two main areas...
Self Centering Clamp: I'm sure you don't want specific examples here, but nearly every quality guided sharpener that uses a clamp has gone to, (or at least offers) a self centering clamp. It eliminates the majority of problems with a clamp that is fixed on one side including: not properly clamping FFG (tapered from spine to edge and/or heel to tip) knives, not properly clamping blades of different widths, and grinding at two different angles, to name a few.
A Stop Collar Revision: The current "wide" Stop Collar" on the jig, frankly defies logic... especially sharpening on a wheel. Having essentially two pivot points can alter the position on the wheel, which changes the angle. The fact that the question... should I: pivot the blade, lift the handle, or pivot and lift, to sharpen can't be agreed upon is because the answer is simpler... the collar should be replaced. Especially for the smaller EDC (folding pocket), and smaller hunting camping knives, the current jig configuration does not properly sharpen the knife, and you have to compromise to do so. Do little more than cut the collar down as some have done, and the difference is clear, and the reasons obvious.
I don't see how either of these will, as you stated, "make it more difficult to sharpen some types of knives". Longer knives? Keep the collar on the SVM-140.
While on the subject... I'll also add that, for me anyway, the "upgraded" jig was a step back. The O-ring doesn't adequately hold the collar in place (and where I live, I suspect will soon dry out and crack like most others do) :(, and the added weight dampens the "feel" and control (mainly the "light touch" I'm always mentioning) of the knife on the wheel.
Of course, none of this addresses the "tilted collar" issue of the current thread, but since you brought this up here... I'll continue to advocate for a "better jig". Hopefully you'll not see it as criticism, but in the desire to make the Tormek a better sharpener. (Thumbs up emoji needed here). ;)
Quote from: Stickan on January 30, 2018, 01:20:02 PM
I am the first to say that you have had bad luck with your purchase when it comes to the issue with the SVM-45 and TT-50. How shipping are done is sadly a bit out of my control even if we recommend to always ship with extra boxes and inlays to protect the machine.
I know that you are sharpening many knifes and I did mean to offend you in any way. My answer was a general view from my perspective.
Since I started working with Tormek we have replaced a handful of jigs and when we have measured them, they are within tolerances. One was slightly bent which we of course replaced as we did with your jig too.
Normally we would ask a customer to send the jigs to Sweden for inspection and measure them. In your case, this being your job, and you are far away from Sweden, makes this a bit more complicated.
I suggest that you and me continue this by using support@tormek.se and keep looking on to this issue until you are satisfied with the result.
Best,
Stig
Thank you so much, Stig.
I have been aware of several instances where members had problems with the Tormek or its jigs or accessories. Whenever the member contacted support, I no not remember an occasion when the service has not been outstanding. Tormek really does believe in excellent customer service.
Good job!
Ken
Hi,
As usual we take all comments of "doing it better" to us and they will be a part of our discussions when the time is ready.
Sincerely,
Stig
I first met Stig and a representative of Affinity Tool, the US importer, when the T4 was introduced. There were some very critical, even negstive comments on the forum about the T4 by members who had never seen it. I cross examined both Stig and Sam about the warrants and the motor. I was polite, but blunt. I left feeling very confident in both Tormek' commitment to warranty service and the T4 motor. Since then, every situation I have encountered (they are rare) involving warranty service has reaffirmed my belief in Tormek.
I always recommend contacting Tormek support (support@tormek.se) immediately with any service related issue. Stig and his team are very prompt and the service is outstanding. Tormek products are built for the long run, and Tormek stands behind them.
For the record, I am Tormek user, not an employee.
Ken
Quote from: Stickan on January 31, 2018, 07:51:26 AM
Hi,
As usual we take all comments of "doing it better" to us and they will be a part of our discussions when the time is ready.
Sincerely,
Stig
I feel like I just left a job interview, where they said, "Don't call us, we'll call you". :-\ ;)
But I can see you've been holding out... on Tormek 3.0?
https://youtu.be/rr1XjsHr0RY?t=20s
(Check out that self centering clamp!) ;)
cbwx,
No need for that feeling ;)
Developing jigs is always a compromise and a jig should have a long lifetime.
All comments and discussions normally lead to a better jig, like when we did SE-77 and SVD-186. They are better then the model we had before them.
So when the time comes for an update on a jig, we always try to improve them on several bits.
The updates some years ago with SVM-45 was to lower then angle so narrower blades could be sharpened and lowered the adjustment screw and make the tolerances better in the jaw. And we changed it from aluminum to Zink. Good improvements at the time and helpful in many ways. When it's time for the next update, our discussion here will be remembered.
Sincerely,
Stig
I thought the SVD-185 gouge jig combined with the TTS-100 was Tormek's most advanced combination. When I reviewed the updated SVD-186, my impression was that the 186 was enough of an improvement that I suggested that it would be a worthwhile purchase even for existing 185 users.
I have been impressed with the SE-77. Tormek advertising makes a big deal about squaring up a chisel. In my opinion, the real improvements are the sliding clamp and the camber capability. Again, for woodworkers, I think the new SE-186 is worth the purchase price for woodworkers.
I like the new SVM-45. I think switching to zinc is a step up. Frankly, I use both the older and newer designs interchangeably. As popular as knife sharpening is with the Tormek, I would not be surprised to see an even newer version in the near to mid term. Please keep in mind that this is just my gut feeling; I have absolutely no inside information on this.
I look forward to the future!
Ken
I checked 3 of SVM-45 and 3 of SVM-140. These are all new one and all have tilted collar. So I think it is intended.
Sharpco,
I believe the real issue is not the knife jig. In my opinion, the real difficulty is that you and I do not have access to the wealth of experience which Stig described in his last post. This is not because Tormek is unwilling to share this knowledge. Support will gladly answer questions which we ask. The problem is that there is no efficient program in place to efficiently share the advances in technique since the handbook was written. Tormek has done a fine job of developing new and improved machines, jigs and accessories. What is lacking is an efficient program of sharing the considerable advancements over the years in using these products.
Tormek is a small Swedish company, committed to sharing the Tormek in Sweden. Every secondary school in Sweden has a Tormek. Tormek teaches regular classes at its headquarters, and has recently built a fine new teaching area. At trade expositions in the area, Tormek shows the entire product line being demonstrated by their top employees.
You and I live in secondary marketing areas. In the US, I know of no Tormek training. At a typical trade show, one might find one rep with a T8 in a small area. Unfortunately, this is typical of many company displays. The dealer stores I have visited may have a T7 or T8 not terribly well maintained sitting on a bottom shelf. Once in a while there is also a T4 still in the unopened box.
I do not expect Tormek to set up training classes. Nor do I expect the kind of displays they do in Sweden. My cost effective solution is to utilize the expertise they have in their existing classroom/studio facility, and produce in depth training videos for present, more advanced users. These videos, while not focused on marketing, may pay for themselves in added sales and customer satisfaction.
Regarding your three points:
1) The worldwide shipping situation is terrible. Between "free shipping" and low wages for shippers, quality is abismal. Packing and shipping costs are just as much a part of item cost as machining and materials.
2) The TT-50 truing tool is a big improvement over the older model. Although I have become fluent with it, I can see room for improvement in the next version, whenever that is.
3) The present knife jig is a modest improvement over the older model. Interestingly, Tormek did not change the product name or number, as they have done with other newer designs. Based on this, I would not be surprised to see redesigned knife jigs in the not too distant future. This is just my gut feeling, not based on any inside information.
I hope we will see more trainng videos soon.
Ken
This batch of new lightweight SVM-45 jigs is an absolute junk.
I tried using them yesterday and am utterly disappointed.
Not only the adjustable stop (this black plastic part) is skewed and not square to the shaft, but also the so-called self-locking ring does not lock. The projection length changes with each move because of that. I've screwed up a customer knife before realized all the problems with this knife jig.
Whoever manufactures them for Tormek has botched the order and damaged Tormek's reputation.
Tormek, as an honest company should RECALL these knife jigs and offer free replacement or compensation.
This is ID of these jigs:
(http://knifegrinders.com.au/dropbox/bad_jig.JPG)
You know what I am going to do now?
I am going to run through Tormek retailers in my city and buy the remaining jigs of the old issue, if any left.
And i do not apologize for my language this time.
Quote from: wootz on March 15, 2018, 10:17:22 PM
This batch of new lightweight SVM-45 jigs... is an absolute junk.
I tried using them yesterday and am utterly disappointed.
Not only the adjustable stop (this black plastic part) is skewed and not square to the shaft, but also the so-called self-locking ring does not lock a f*ck. The projection length changes with each move because of that. I've screwed up a customer knife before realized all the problems with this knife jig.
Whoever manufactures them for Tormek has botched the order and damaged Tormek's reputation.
Tormek, as an honest company should RECALL these knife jigs and offer free replacement or compensation.
This is ID of these jigs:
...
You know what I am going to do now?
I am going to run through Tormek retailers in my city and buy the remaining jigs of the old issue, if any left.
And i do not apologize for my language this time.
Lightweight? ???
If only a better alternative was available... ;)
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3512.0;attach=1943)
... in all seriousness, Rick's mod, while on the surface you'd think is less accurate, since it's a smaller surface on the USB... IMO is a better route. And attaching the clamp to the jig with the Stop Collar (my mod I guess), is very accurate, the only downside being it's looking like knives should be under 8", (and maybe less depending on shape).
It's pretty easy to add a "locking screw" like the old model had... I just drilled a hole slightly smaller and used the screw itself to 'tap' the plastic collar. Solve part of the problem anyway. (Or adding tape as was suggested earlier, might straighten it a bit, and stop it from turning).
1 step forward... :o
p.s. I'm finding it interesting, (and a bit mind boggling), that I seem to be able to use your Angle Calculator, even with the modified jigs. (I'm trying to figure out why...). :-\
Quote from: cbwx34 on March 16, 2018, 12:50:38 AM
Quote from: wootz on March 15, 2018, 10:17:22 PM
This batch of new lightweight SVM-45 jigs... is an absolute junk.
I tried using them yesterday and am utterly disappointed.
Not only the adjustable stop (this black plastic part) is skewed and not square to the shaft, but also the so-called self-locking ring does not lock a f*ck. The projection length changes with each move because of that. I've screwed up a customer knife before realized all the problems with this knife jig.
Whoever manufactures them for Tormek has botched the order and damaged Tormek's reputation.
Tormek, as an honest company should RECALL these knife jigs and offer free replacement or compensation.
This is ID of these jigs:
...
You know what I am going to do now?
I am going to run through Tormek retailers in my city and buy the remaining jigs of the old issue, if any left.
And i do not apologize for my language this time.
Lightweight? ???
If only a better alternative was available... ;)
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3512.0;attach=1943)
... in all seriousness, Rick's mod, while on the surface you'd think is less accurate, since it's a smaller surface on the USB... IMO is a better route. And attaching the clamp to the jig with the Stop Collar (my mod I guess), is very accurate, the only downside being it's looking like knives should be under 8", (and maybe less depending on shape).
It's pretty easy to add a "locking screw" like the old model had... I just drilled a hole slightly smaller and used the screw itself to 'tap' the plastic collar. Solve part of the problem anyway. (Or adding tape as was suggested earlier, might straighten it a bit, and stop it from turning).
1 step forward... :o
p.s. I'm finding it interesting, (and a bit mind boggling), that I seem to be able to use your Angle Calculator, even with the modified jigs. (I'm trying to figure out why...). :-\
I'm not sure where to chime in. First, I empathize with Wootz's complaints about how the new stop/O-Ring setup does not hold position. I solved that much like CB, but in my case, I drilled and tapped two holes in the body of the stop, so thumb screws can be placed to avoid crushing the O-ring. It is a partial fix, that should not have had to have happened.
Two holes drilled and tapped:
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3512.0;attach=1945)
Three jigs modified with two drilled and tapped holes:
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3512.0;attach=1947)
As for using Wootz's angle calculator with CB's or my mods, is it not just a matter of determining the projection length? More complicated in the case of CB's as I'm not sure how to measure it. There is also the matter of the shaft of the jig not contacting the USB, which would seem to me to change the angle.
But, in the case of my Pin Pivot Collar, it is measured exactly the same as with the stock collar, directly from the knife edge to the front surface of one of the (vertical) pins.
I am not using my Pin Pivot Collar at the moment. I am learning how to use the stock collar and how to lift the knife as the curve climbs the stone to maintain the bevel angle and width. This is a beef I have with provided instructional info (manual and videos) because as far as I can tell, the need for lifting the blade along the curved tip is shown in the videos, but is never mentioned, let along explained why it is important. (I believe the lack of info on the need to lift is why I botched one of my Leatherman Wave blades, that I have since fixed with lifting) (I did a word search in the downloaded PDF version of the Tormek manual and the work "lift" does not occur anywhere in the knife sharpening section. The only places it occurs is in other jigs regarding changing positions or orientation.)
I do not want for Wootz's complaint(s) to get lost in talking about how to fix the jigs by adding screws or using alternative stops.
I think the design flaw issues he raises need to be addressed by Tormek.
Rick
Quote from: RickKrung on March 16, 2018, 01:26:27 AM
As for using Wootz's angle calculator with CB's or my mods, is it not just a matter of determining the projection length? More complicated in the case of CB's as I'm not sure how to measure it. There is also the matter of the shaft of the jig not contacting the USB, which would seem to me to change the angle.
But, in the case of my Pin Pivot Collar, it is measured exactly the same as with the stock collar, directly from the knife edge to the front surface of one of the (vertical) pins.
You're right... I should have clarified... I'm able to use it, even with the Stop Collar jigs that slide onto the USB (like the one in the picture, or the one on the KME clamp I modded). On your setup... it works the same as the regular collar.
Quote from: RickKrung on March 16, 2018, 01:26:27 AM
I am not using my Pin Pivot Collar at the moment. I am learning how to use the stock collar and how to lift the knife as the curve climbs the stone to maintain the bevel angle and width. This is a beef I have with provided instructional info (manual and videos) because as far as I can tell, the need for lifting the blade along the curved tip is shown in the videos, but is never mentioned, let along explained why it is important. (I believe the lack of info on the need to lift is why I botched one of my Leatherman Wave blades, that I have since fixed with lifting) (I did a word search in the downloaded PDF version of the Tormek manual and the work "lift" does not occur anywhere in the knife sharpening section. The only places it occurs is in other jigs regarding changing positions or orientation.)
I do not want for Wootz's complaint(s) to get lost in talking about how to fix the jigs by adding screws or using alternative stops.
I think the design flaw issues he raises need to be addressed by Tormek.
Rick
The whole point of modding the collar, is to avoid lifting the handle to follow the curve (if by that you mean lifting without rotating the knife?). It works, but not the best way (my opinion of course). (But maybe a topic for another thread). :-\
I agree about the design flaw issue... but something tells me a fix may be a long time coming? ::)
Guys, I apologies for my tone in my last post.
I do love Tormek, and trust its quality, like a son trusts his father.
And like when a son finds out his father is not ideal, I had sort of a childish reaction, that I am now ashamed of.
I actually bought 2 new jigs, and one is fine, and works perfectly well, but the other has the skewed adjustable stop that doesn't hold, it is lighter in weight, and dimensions are slightly different.
I therefore think this different jig is either a defective production batch or counterfeit.
Quote from: RickKrung on March 16, 2018, 01:26:27 AM
...snip...
I'm not sure where to chime in. First, I empathize with Wootz's complaints about how the new stop/O-Ring setup does not hold position. I solved that much like CB, but in my case, I drilled and tapped two holes in the body of the stop, so thumb screws can be placed to avoid crushing the O-ring. It is a partial fix, that should not have had to have happened.
Two holes drilled and tapped:
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3512.0;attach=1945)
...snip...
Rick
Interesting how, when you think you know what you are doing, or, if you don't even think that and just do something that messes with someone else's carefully engineered/designed tool/instrument and you end up messing it up somehow.
Case in Point: The two drilled and tapped holes I put in the SVM adjustable collar bodies. Great idea, it seemed. Still seems that way at one level, except, I was noticing that the stop was now difficult to get past the O-ring at a certain point, and the O-rings were getting torn up and dragged down the threads some when the stop was rotated off the threads.
Well, it turns out that putting in that forward hole (closest to the wide plastic disc) disrupted the integrity of the internal diameter in that area. Now, as the hole rotates over the O-ring, the rubber has somewhere to go other than under uniform compression. Up it pops into the threaded hole and rides there as the stop is rotated. The Stop doesn't really want to move because of that, and when it does, it tears up the O-ring.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3512.0;attach=1949)
I did find that screwing the knob in to about where the screw head is even with the ID, the O-ring is compressed back into compliance and the stop will thread on or off without further incident. Works but it is a bother and if forgotten enough, it will ruin the O-ring.
So... folks... Don't do this at home... At least for that forward hole. I don't know if the rear one would ever come into play or not, if the stop is ever rotated that far forward. Don't know.
As an alternative, I have in mind making something like the Lee Valley Veritas Micro-Adjust Marking Gauge, where there is a movable clamp that closes around the shaft (smooth, no threads) and has a threaded adjusting ring that moves the head and then the head is secured with a thumb screw once in the proper location. Much too complex for a Tormek production option, but definitely something I could do in my shop. I'm thinking something like the locking clamp collar from the Pin Pivot Clamp Collar, rather than a "collet" like clamp as on the Veritas gauge.
http://www.leevalley.com/us/gifts/page.aspx?p=49133&cat=53219&ap=9
BTW, I have one of these and they work great, but is probably overkill for most woodworkers. I have two others of the standard variety, with just the thumb screw, which I use for setting the SVM jig projection and the USB height based on Wootz's applet calculations. I've modified each, in different ways to be more suitable for these tasks, but that should go in a different (its own) thread.
Rick
Quote from: wootz on March 15, 2018, 10:17:22 PM
This batch of new lightweight SVM-45 jigs is an absolute junk.
I tried using them yesterday and am utterly disappointed.
Not only the adjustable stop (this black plastic part) is skewed and not square to the shaft, but also the so-called self-locking ring does not lock a f*ck. The projection length changes with each move because of that. I've screwed up a customer knife before realized all the problems with this knife jig.
Whoever manufactures them for Tormek has botched the order and damaged Tormek's reputation.
Tormek, as an honest company should RECALL these knife jigs and offer free replacement or compensation.
This is ID of these jigs:
(http://knifegrinders.com.au/dropbox/bad_jig.JPG)
You know what I am going to do now?
I am going to run through Tormek retailers in my city and buy the remaining jigs of the old issue, if any left.
And i do not apologize for my language this time.
That's what I'm talking about.
I have two SVM-45 and these all have the same problem.
I also ordered three of new SVM-45 and confirmed that they had the same problem, so I sent them back.
I am very curious how Tomak will explain the case.
Wootz, what does "lightweight SVM-45" mean? SVM-45 is not lightweight.
Quote from: wootz on March 16, 2018, 04:26:28 AM
Guys, I apologies for my tone in my last post.
I do love Tormek, and trust its quality, like a son trusts his father.
And like when a son finds out his father is not ideal, I had sort of a childish reaction, that I am now ashamed of.
I actually bought 2 new jigs, and one is fine, and works perfectly well, but the other has the skewed adjustable stop that doesn't hold, it is lighter in weight, and dimensions are slightly different.
I therefore think this different jig is either a defective production batch or counterfeit.
I can fully understand you. I found the same problem on all five SVM-45s, but I could not get enough empathy from this forum. But now I am glad that the seriousness of this problem is known through you.
Quote from: wootz on March 16, 2018, 04:26:28 AM
Guys, I apologies for my tone in my last post.
I do love Tormek, and trust its quality, like a son trusts his father.
And like when a son finds out his father is not ideal, I had sort of a childish reaction, that I am now ashamed of.
I actually bought 2 new jigs, and one is fine, and works perfectly well, but the other has the skewed adjustable stop that doesn't hold, it is lighter in weight, and dimensions are slightly different.
I therefore think this different jig is either a defective production batch or counterfeit.
Hi,
Happy to read that it was one jig that was faulty.
No one is to blame but us if something is of bad quality. Our quality checks normally prevent this but items can sometimes pass inspection without we notice that it has quality issues. Things like this always make us better.
I have sent you an email and also made our Importer in Australia aware of this so you get a jig that is as it should be.
Sincerely,
Stig
Problems can happen with any company. I evaluate a company by how it handles problems. I have known of several problems with Tormek. Some of these are real product problems; some are operator. In every case, Tormek has delivered outstanding service. I have never known Tormek to try to dodge a problem
Ken
Post edited by poster to eliminate confusion.
Quote from: Stickan on March 16, 2018, 08:56:47 AM
Quote from: wootz on March 16, 2018, 04:26:28 AM
Guys, I apologies for my tone in my last post.
I do love Tormek, and trust its quality, like a son trusts his father.
And like when a son finds out his father is not ideal, I had sort of a childish reaction, that I am now ashamed of.
I actually bought 2 new jigs, and one is fine, and works perfectly well, but the other has the skewed adjustable stop that doesn't hold, it is lighter in weight, and dimensions are slightly different.
I therefore think this different jig is either a defective production batch or counterfeit.
Hi,
Happy to read that it was one jig that was faulty.
No one is to blame but us if something is of bad quality. Our quality checks normally prevent this but items can sometimes pass inspection without we notice that it has quality issues. Things like this always make us better.
I have sent you an email and also made our Importer in Australia aware of this so you get a jig that is as it should be.
Sincerely,
Stig
Hello. Stig.
I'm having the same problem. I think there is a problem with the entire jig produced sometime in 2017.
I removed my reply to avoid confusion. (mistaken information).
Ken
Quote from: SHARPCO on March 16, 2018, 12:00:28 PM
Quote from: Stickan on March 16, 2018, 08:56:47 AM
Quote from: wootz on March 16, 2018, 04:26:28 AM
Guys, I apologies for my tone in my last post.
I do love Tormek, and trust its quality, like a son trusts his father.
And like when a son finds out his father is not ideal, I had sort of a childish reaction, that I am now ashamed of.
I actually bought 2 new jigs, and one is fine, and works perfectly well, but the other has the skewed adjustable stop that doesn't hold, it is lighter in weight, and dimensions are slightly different.
I therefore think this different jig is either a defective production batch or counterfeit.
Hi,
Happy to read that it was one jig that was faulty.
No one is to blame but us if something is of bad quality. Our quality checks normally prevent this but items can sometimes pass inspection without we notice that it has quality issues. Things like this always make us better.
I have sent you an email and also made our Importer in Australia aware of this so you get a jig that is as it should be.
Sincerely,
Stig
Hello. Stig.
I'm having the same problem. I think there is a problem with the entire jig produced sometime in 2017.
Hi,
Sometimes it takes time to answer some questions. This was one.
As usual, I am going to answer the honest way.
To start with, you are wrong.
We produce thousands of the SVM-45 every year. We have less issues with this model in zink than the previous one in aluminum. 2018, so far, I have a handful of issues, one was operator problems. And this might be jigs that was purchased last year or even 2016. And some jigs that I have got sent to Sweden for inspection had traces of damage after they have been dropped to the floor, most likely from the user. Which sadly, we might find out after we replace a jig.
We stopped making the adjustable handle with a screw to lock it. The treads in the nylon got worn out as most users used to much force when they tightened it. The solution with the o-ring made even the adjustment easier.
Sadly, whatever I answer, it sounds like an defensive speech. If someone has an issue, contacting us on support@tormek.se is easier and faster to get help than to post things here. Luckily, Ken S does inform me when I need to check the Forum If I have been absent for a while.
Sharpco, I will send an email to our Korean importer to help you so you get jigs that you can accept. We don't want unhappy customers.
Sincerely,
Stig
Quote from: Ken S on March 16, 2018, 12:37:45 PM
I removed my reply to avoid confusion. (mistaken information).
Ken
???
I thought your weighing them was a good idea?
I knew "lightweight" (in wootz post) had to be a clue...
BTW, mine weighed the same as yours.... I thought you were on to something here.... at least confirm or not whether it shows the difference?
CB,
I thought so, too. However, Stig sent me an email requesting that I delete the reply as it was not the issue and it would cause confusion. I know and respect Stig enough to know that his request was honest.
Due to the shipping distances involved, fully resolving this may take some time. I have no doubt that it will be resolved.
Ken
Quote from: Stickan on March 16, 2018, 01:47:34 PM
Quote from: SHARPCO on March 16, 2018, 12:00:28 PM
Quote from: Stickan on March 16, 2018, 08:56:47 AM
Quote from: wootz on March 16, 2018, 04:26:28 AM
Guys, I apologies for my tone in my last post.
I do love Tormek, and trust its quality, like a son trusts his father.
And like when a son finds out his father is not ideal, I had sort of a childish reaction, that I am now ashamed of.
I actually bought 2 new jigs, and one is fine, and works perfectly well, but the other has the skewed adjustable stop that doesn't hold, it is lighter in weight, and dimensions are slightly different.
I therefore think this different jig is either a defective production batch or counterfeit.
Hi,
Happy to read that it was one jig that was faulty.
No one is to blame but us if something is of bad quality. Our quality checks normally prevent this but items can sometimes pass inspection without we notice that it has quality issues. Things like this always make us better.
I have sent you an email and also made our Importer in Australia aware of this so you get a jig that is as it should be.
Sincerely,
Stig
Hello. Stig.
I'm having the same problem. I think there is a problem with the entire jig produced sometime in 2017.
Hi,
Sometimes it takes time to answer some questions. This was one.
As usual, I am going to answer the honest way.
To start with, you are wrong.
We produce thousands of the SVM-45 every year. We have less issues with this model in zink than the previous one in aluminum. 2018, so far, I have a handful of issues, one was operator problems. And this might be jigs that was purchased last year or even 2016. And some jigs that I have got sent to Sweden for inspection had traces of damage after they have been dropped to the floor, most likely from the user. Which sadly, we might find out after we replace a jig.
We stopped making the adjustable handle with a screw to lock it. The treads in the nylon got worn out as most users used to much force when they tightened it. The solution with the o-ring made even the adjustment easier.
Sadly, whatever I answer, it sounds like an defensive speech. If someone has an issue, contacting us on support@tormek.se is easier and faster to get help than to post things here. Luckily, Ken S does inform me when I need to check the Forum If I have been absent for a while.
Sharpco, I will send an email to our Korean importer to help you so you get jigs that you can accept. We don't want unhappy customers.
Sincerely,
Stig
This is becoming a full time job for you Stig!
This is my take... Yes there is a little play in the position of the black adjustment knob on the SVM-45 held somewhat securely by the internal o-ring, however i haven't found that minor resulting movement to change much on the bevel and the vast majority of my knives are large scandi bevels so I'd likly notice a difference before those who sharpen small secondary bevel knives - not to mention I am ridiculously obsessive and a perfectionist. I just try to keep things centered...
The beauty without having a locking screw that holds the black adjustment knob in place is that it can be quickly adjusted back and forth, which otherwise would need to be unscrewed to loosen then adjust the jig, then re tightened.
When using both the SVM-45 and 00 together, coupled with a hand made knife, you can guarantee that the minor imperfections of the knife being handmade will affect the bevel position on the stone in relation to it being held in the jig. Adjusting that black knob is essential, it's quick, easy and efficient as it is. I advise anyone struggling with this set up to watch how the sharpeners at the Dalah horse co. (demo on youtube) sharpen their tools adjusting that black knob!
I like the sound of the duct tape idea which may help remove the slop!
As I have mentioned in my other post ( I know I have only posted once before this!) the tormek and it's jigs (of course I can only comment on the ones I have used) work beautifully, sadly it's us, the user that let the machine down.
The guides that you use with the Tormek are exactly that, guides. There is still skill involved on behalf of the user!
As stated before, a learner driver wouldn't blame a car for not driving properly, it will drive, but you have to practice how to do it - it will drive beautifully if you drive it beautifully. Like anything the Tormek has a learning curve.
It looks like this discussion is getting a little heated, which is a shame and is one of the reasons I have stayed away from forums and online groups up until someone asked me via instagram to share my thoughts. Just my 2cents on this topic.
Warm regards,
Tom.
Tom,
This topic is a little heated, which is very rare for this forum. We are a group of civil, helpful people who take sharpening very seriously. I believe you have already met Stig, the head of Tormek support. This situation with the knife jig will be resolved. I have complete confidence that oir ship will soon be restored to an even keel. We have no prima donnas here; we work as a team to solve problems.
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on March 16, 2018, 06:40:11 PM
Tom,
This topic is a little heated, which is very rare for this forum. We are a group of civil, helpful people who take sharpening very seriously. I believe you have already met Stig, the head of Tormek support. This situation with the knife jig will be resolved. I have complete confidence that oir ship will soon be restored to an even keel. We have no prima donnas here; we work as a team to solve problems.
Ken
Huh. I had to go skim thru this thread... I'd barely call it "spirited". :D 8)
Quote from: Ken S on March 16, 2018, 04:43:21 PM
CB,
I thought so, too. However, Stig sent me an email requesting that I delete the reply as it was not the issue and it would cause confusion. I know and respect Stig enough to know that his request was honest.
Due to the shipping distances involved, fully resolving this may take some time. I have no doubt that it will be resolved.
Ken
Ah... cool. 8)
Quote from: Stickan on March 16, 2018, 08:56:47 AM
Quote from: wootz on March 16, 2018, 04:26:28 AM
Guys, I apologies for my tone in my last post.
I do love Tormek, and trust its quality, like a son trusts his father.
And like when a son finds out his father is not ideal, I had sort of a childish reaction, that I am now ashamed of.
I actually bought 2 new jigs, and one is fine, and works perfectly well, but the other has the skewed adjustable stop that doesn't hold, it is lighter in weight, and dimensions are slightly different.
I therefore think this different jig is either a defective production batch or counterfeit.
Hi,
Happy to read that it was one jig that was faulty.
No one is to blame but us if something is of bad quality. Our quality checks normally prevent this but items can sometimes pass inspection without we notice that it has quality issues. Things like this always make us better.
I have sent you an email and also made our Importer in Australia aware of this so you get a jig that is as it should be.
Sincerely,
Stig
This funny knife jig has been sent to Promac to forward to Tormek for inspection.
Thank you Stig for intervention.
This intervention is exactly what I have come to expect from Tormek. I have never known support to give anything except stellar service.
Please post the final conclusion.
Ken