I am the very new owner of a T4 with the straight edge jig. I bought a Tormek because of the company's assertion of being the very best in water cooled sharpening technology. At UK£350 I would hope so!! I have no issue with the overall quality and effectiveness. i'm a happy bunny! EXCEPT when I am sharpening my 2 3/8th plane iron. Water everywhere when the iron is moved over the left off the stone. The water level in the trough is not over full by the way. £350 and I have to pack rags and sponges around the base of the machine to protect my workbench! Why am I ticked off? Because Tormek acknowledged the problem (refer to their manual) and produced a water chute specifically for this problem. But not for the T4!!!!!!! Are T4 users not meant to use Stanley 4 1/2 planes? Since Tormek know that there is an issue I simply cannot understand why they have refused to offer a simple jig solution for the T4 community. Is it lack of interest in us or just arrogance? I don't wish to offend but if Tormek is, as they consistently say, the No.1 company in this field, this unacceptable quality issue must be addressed and quickly. I'll buy the water chute jig. I don't expect something for nothing. I do expect a responsible and professional reaction from a top company. Any and all comments would be appreciated, especially from a Tormek representative. :'(
Quote from: Macjl on November 20, 2017, 04:33:35 PM
I am the very new owner of a T4 with the straight edge jig. I bought a Tormek because of the company's assertion of being the very best in water cooled sharpening technology. At UK£350 I would hope so!! I have no issue with the overall quality and effectiveness. i'm a happy bunny! EXCEPT when I am sharpening my 2 3/8th plane iron. Water everywhere when the iron is moved over the left off the stone. The water level in the trough is not over full by the way. £350 and I have to pack rags and sponges around the base of the machine to protect my workbench! Why am I ticked off? Because Tormek acknowledged the problem (refer to their manual) and produced a water chute specifically for this problem. But not for the T4!!!!!!! Are T4 users not meant to use Stanley 4 1/2 planes? Since Tormek know that there is an issue I simply cannot understand why they have refused to offer a simple jig solution for the T4 community. Is it lack of interest in us or just arrogance? I don't wish to offend but if Tormek is, as they consistently say, the No.1 company in this field, this unacceptable quality issue must be addressed and quickly. I'll buy the water chute jig. I don't expect something for nothing. I do expect a responsible and professional reaction from a top company. Any and all comments would be appreciated, especially from a Tormek representative. :'(
I'm not a plane iron sharpener, (and not a Tormek rep)... but I'm wondering if a small tray or shelf container... like in the attached picture, might help with your problem?
Thank you for your excellent suggestion. Greatly appreciated.
Should Tormek customers have to improvise tho?
I don't think it is appropriate that we have to go to Homebase and look for a tray the right size to accommodate a failing in the way a £300 product has been brought to market.
I'm looking forward to a post from Tormek soon.
Thanks again for your reply.
Welcome to the forum. May I suggest that you utilize the " contact and support " from the home page of the Tormek site? At times Sitg will reply here, but we are told the support is the more excellent way to get a response from headquarters.
Edit:
I looked up the address.
support@tormek.se
Thanks for the advice. Will do.
I'd really like to know if there are others out there who share my lack of understanding on this issue.
Macji,
I can feel your frustration. I have two planes wuth 2 3/8" wide blades, a 1909 vintage 607 Bedrock and a #6 Stanley only slightly newer. I also have a T4. The last time I sharpened one of these blades, I used my T7. I will put sharpening one of them with the T4 on my to do list and report. Unfortunately, my to do list is presently unusually long. I will do this and report back.
Ken
Quote from: Macjl on November 20, 2017, 08:18:07 PM
Thank you for your excellent suggestion. Greatly appreciated.
Should Tormek customers have to improvise tho?
I don't think it is appropriate that we have to go to Homebase and look for a tray the right size to accommodate a failing in the way a £300 product has been brought to market.
I'm looking forward to a post from Tormek soon.
Thanks again for your reply.
I don't think the tray has to be very particular size... just something there to catch the water.
I see your side... although I don't see the "water runoff" as being particularly hard to deal with... so I don't see it really as being a black mark against a quality machine... if that makes any sense. Even, as you stated, it's only one tool that seems to be causing the issue (although longer knives will too). Maybe try sharpening on the other side (wheel turning away)... this keeps water from building up on the tool and running off. It's what I do for knives sometimes. (Like I said, don't do plane blades, so just a suggestion). I suppose it would be nice ot have an accessory available to address it. (Always a continuing development process I suppose). ;)
Quote from: Macjl on November 20, 2017, 09:32:19 PM
Thanks for the advice. Will do.
I'd really like to know if there are others out there who share my lack of understanding on this issue.
For what it is worth, this is an issue on the Supergrind as well. This is pre T7 so pre T8 as well. Just put your T4 into a sheet pan or cafeteria tray and dry the tool when through. At least you will keep water off your table. Sorry.
I appreciate all of your replies and suggestions. Thank you very much.
However, my point is that we are all talking about "making do". That is not acceptable. Tormek needs to offer us a solution that does not require us to "make do" on their premium, world-leading product.
Their silence is deafening by the way !!!!
Quote from: Macjl on November 21, 2017, 01:16:36 PM
...
Their silence is deafening by the way !!!!
I would not expect an answer on the forum. Did you call them or their distributor? No product is perfect. Since this issue is so egregious to you, perhaps you should consider returning it and finding a solution that will work for you rather than to keep complaining about it.
I think that I will tune out now.
Quote from: Macjl on November 21, 2017, 01:16:36 PM
I appreciate all of your replies and suggestions. Thank you very much.
However, my point is that we are all talking about "making do". That is not acceptable. Tormek needs to offer us a solution that does not require us to "make do" on their premium, world-leading product.
Their silence is deafening by the way !!!!
Hi,
I have sent you an email.
As usual, contacting support@tormek.se is always better to get a faster answer. We have a 24h response time there. The Forum will take longer for me to check as I am often " On the run".
This Forum is a great place to get help from our experienced members when it comes to "hands on" tips and tricks and the members thoughts and skills regarding our products.
In general, water leads all kind of ways and some tools will make water to get around the machine instead of in the through. When it comes to design, there is always give and takes, there is no 100% solution for all tools you might have in a workshop. We try to make the machine and jigs to cover most of the tools that needs to be sharpened. It might come with a disadvantage as getting water-spillage for example. We have accessories for this, like the RM-533 rubbermat, that is the same mat as on the sharpening station, it will stop water getting on a table or workbench.
Or simply using a serving tray.
Best,
Stig
Thanks for coming back to me Stig.
I appreciate it.
Weirdly I had the rubber mat delivered today. I bought this to see if it alleviates the water loss.
I'll give it a go. I'm sure it will help. Thanks.
In response to brettgrant 99, I think you should read my initial post more carefully. I am far from thinking the T4 is "egregious". As you know, egregious means outstandingly bad or shocking. I quote myself, "I am a happy bunny". You have used the word wrongly.
FYI I did indeed contact the distributor before coming to the forum. Shaun of G&S Specialist Timber could not have been more helpful and friendly and did all he could to get a satisfactory response. I would unreservedly recommend this company to anyone.
I make absolutely no apology for complaining (I hope politely and respectfully). It is often the only way to highlight an issue of concern and to understand how best to deal with it.
I am not complaining about your post by the way!! Thank you for the comment. I shall be keeping the T4.
I shall tune out now.
Macji,
Do not tune out, and certainly do not apologize for complaining. As I promised, I have run a test. I just sharpened the 2 3/8" wide blade from my Stanley number six plane. I used the T4, SG-200, and standard water trough. I used the SE-77 and added a slight camber. Incidentally, whenever I test anything involving a Tormek product, Tormek never gets a free pass.
I routinely place the Tormek on the Tormek Rubber Work Mat. I know there are less expensive options, however, the Tormek Mat is very well made and works very well.
The test consisted of sharpening this one blade. At the end of the test, there was no water on the mat from the grinding wheel. The few drops on the rubber mat were from the stone grader. I did find a bit of water directly under the water trough on the T4 frame. This drop was small, only about half an inch or twelve millimeter.
I do not doubt what you say. I think I know what is causing the problem. I normally suction most of the water out if the water trough with a turkey baster. (This works very well; I recommend everyone purchase a turkey baster for his Tormek.) Today I forgot and just hand carried the trough to the sink. I looked at the water level. It was about half of the maximum line. I think the problem is that you are overfilling the trough. I start the motor and fill until water starts to flow on the grinding wheel. I let the motor keep running. Soon the grinding wheel will have absorbed enough water that the top of the wheel becomes dry. Add water, just enough to get the water flowing a little again. You may have to repeat this a couple to several times. When the water flows without being absorbed, you are ready to sharpen. I learned this from watching Steve Bottorff, a real deal Tormek expert at a woodworking show. Both Tormeks, T4 and T7 ran all day without needing to be refilled, and I did not see water beneath either. I don't recall any wide planes being sharpened that day. Watching Steve left quite an impression with me.
I try not to travel too far across the stone with the blade. This may or may not effect the water.
I email Stig frequently. He has answered me from many places, including Chicago, Finland, and Poland, usually from an airport. I know his travel schedule is extensive. He is always good about answering.
With the forum, very few of us own a T4. That is not a criticism of the T4. A substantial number of forum members are longtime SuperGrind users. Chances are, your Tormek will last beyond your lifetime. This certainly includes the T4. For many years, the larger size was the only model available in the US. This was primarily due to electric power differences. Also, the US market was primarily woodturners, whereas the European market was more oriented toward knives.
I upgraded to the larger trough for my T7. Frankly, I have never used the water slide. I don't sharpen planer blades and my longest kitchen knife is eight inches or two hundred millimeters.
I hope this is a satisfactory answer for you. Do not hesitate to ask questions!
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on November 21, 2017, 09:54:57 PM
I think the problem is that you are overfilling the trough. I start the motor and fill until water starts to flow on the grinding wheel. I let the motor keep running. Soon the grinding wheel will have absorbed enough water that the top of the wheel becomes dry. Add water, just enough to get the water flowing a little again. You may have to repeat this a couple to several times. When the water flows without being absorbed, you are ready to sharpen. I learned this from watching Steve Bottorff, a real deal Tormek expert at a woodworking show. Both Tormeks, T4 and T7 ran all day without needing to be refilled, and I did not see water beneath either. I don't recall any wide planes being sharpened that day. Watching Steve left quite an impression with me.
Ken
Ken,
Is Steve sharpening edge leading (on top of the stone), or his usual setup? I simply cannot duplicate this, on knives anyway, edge leading, without water building up on the knife and running off to the side.
This morning I tried to duplicate what you posted... letting the stone absorb water, then leaving just enough water in the trough to barely touch the stone... to the point of the stone just breaking the surface. I still get water building up on the knife and running off to the side. (Even with no water in the trough I see this... unless I turn off the stone and let the excess drain out).
Trying to figure out why this doesn't work for me.
Thanks!
Edit: I should add... I can control it by not "tipping" the knife too much, so the water drops off at the edge of the stone, and not on the machine or off the edge onto the table... maybe that's really the technique?
CB, I am wondering if putting the grinder housing in a horizontal position and keeping the blade slightly pressed towards the trough could resolve your issue?
Jan
Jan,
Interesting photo.
CB,
Apparently more testing must be done. With an unusually busy schedule, I sharpened the 2 3/8" plane blade mentioned in the original post. Hopefully Steve will reply. He has used his T4 with many more knives than I have.
Work continues........
Ken
Ken,
Thank you very much for your kind and comprehensive reply.
I'm going to try your recommended approach tomorrow and test out my new mat at the same time.
Judging by the way you emphasise the minimalist approach to the water level, I certainly have been overdoing it but never past the maximum line.
I complained and I learned!!! Perfect.
I'll let you know how I get on.
Thanks once again.
Mac
Quote from: Jan on November 22, 2017, 06:44:54 PM
CB, I am wondering if putting the grinder housing in a horizontal position and keeping the blade slightly pressed towards the trough could resolve your issue?
Jan
Thanks for the reply.
I'm more trying to figure out why I'm not seeing a reduction in water buildup on the knife, and subsequent runoff, based on the water level. Whether there is basically no water in the trough (but stone saturated), a minimal amount to just touch the stone, or the trough full... when I put a knife against the stone, water "builds up" and then runs off to the side. I don't even see a significant difference in the amount.
The runoff itself doesn't really bug me... like I figured out this morning (because I was paying attention to this specific issue), I can control it for the most part by how much I tip the blade... probably similar idea to what you're describing. But adjusting water level itself... just can't figure out why I see no difference.
Good comments. From my unscientific viewpoint, I don't think the volume in the tray is what matters. I think what is important is the amount of arc of the grinding wheel which is submerged and bringing up water. I like to keep the flowing water to a minimum, so I keep the water level as low as possible.
Keep up the critical thinking.
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on November 22, 2017, 10:04:54 PM
Good comments. From my unscientific viewpoint, I don't think the volume in the tray is what matters. I think what is important is the amount of arc of the grinding wheel which is submerged and bringing up water. I like to keep the flowing water to a minimum, so I keep the water level as low as possible.
Keep up the critical thinking.
Ken
I'm talking about the same thing here.... so volume in the tray = amount of stone submerged.
My first T7 came with the original water trough. Being a Tormek junkie, I upgraded both the water trough and the main shaft. Both were working fine; I just wanted to stay state of the art. The Advanced Water Trough came with the trough, slide and two magnetic feet spacers. These two spacers elevated the dry side of the Tormek so that any water went down the outside, away from the housing.My logical self likes this idea. My inner artist felt uncomfortable having the Tormek slightly off level. I quickly adapted.
You could try making a couple shims to elevate your dry side. Something in the three to six millimeter or eighth to quarter inch range should work. Constructing a slide out of plastic should not be difficult, nor would just be placing a wash cloth under the area next to the water trough. Before leaving bush league issues which should not be, I would suggest the old standard Tormek user practice of taping a disk magnet to the outside of your water trough. Be sure to place it where it sill not interfere with mounting the trough. A hardware store disk magnet about three auarter inch or ninteen millimeter diameter and electrical tape work fine. This will catch the steel grindings.
The T4 water trough fits the earlier 200 mm Tormek models. It is generally quite adequate. When I first received my T4, I thought Tormek would eventually redesign the water trough like the larger trough. In defense of Tormek, the T4 is a major redesign beyond the T3. The new zinc top is a substantial improvement in precision and durability. It has served as the prototype for the T8 and T2.
Not factoring in any price difference, I really like the T4. It offers the versatility of the Tormek in a much lighter, more compact package. While this makes it a joy to transport, the more compact size can also be a constraint with some longer tools. I am sure cost factored into the desision not to redesign the water trough. Tormek put the budget into the needed improvement, correcting an overheating issue. That makes the T4 a tool capable of more professional duty for all users. Unfortunately, redesigning the water trough apparently did not make the cut for selling the T4 at the desired price of $399US. Neither did including the SE-77 square edge jig or the TT-50 truing tool. While not everyone would use the square edge jig, the truing tool is essential for everyone.
I have no idea how many Tormek users have upgraded to the Advanced Water Trough. I doubt it would be a profitable accessory only item for Tormek. Hanving used the T4 for several years, it would be a tough sale to convince me to upgrade mine. Yes, I would probably do it, but only for the non logical reason of being a Tormek junkie.
I suggest you enjoy your Tormek. Enjoy it for what it is, a versatile, well designed and built tool. It is not perfect, but it is close. Use good technique to minimize water spillage with large tools and a towel or paper towel to absorb any spillage.
Ken
Ken,
Yep - finally your suggestion has been tested. That is, be as minimalist as possible with the water level in the T4 water trough. I still get a few spills but nothing like before when I sharpen my wider plane irons. Thank you for your advice a couple of weeks ago.
It might be an idea to point this out to Tormek and for them to caveat the idea of filling the water level to the maximum level on the trough. Just saying!!! It's not another criticism :)
Mac
Quote from: Macjl on December 08, 2017, 09:19:38 PM
Ken,
Yep - finally your suggestion has been tested. That is, be as minimalist as possible with the water level in the T4 water trough. I still get a few spills but nothing like before when I sharpen my wider plane irons. Thank you for your advice a couple of weeks ago.
It might be an idea to point this out to Tormek and for them to caveat the idea of filling the water level to the maximum level on the trough. Just saying!!! It's not another criticism :)
Mac
Continues to elude me. :( Glad it worked for you though. :)
CB,
If parts of the Tormek did not elude us, it wouldn't be half as much fun. I have figured out a few of the mysteries. Most recently is the blackstone, from posts. (I am embarrassed to admit it, however, I purchased my blackstone in 2010, and it has been a source of frustration until last month. I now feel confident enough to try using it again.
I think the whole forum benefits from things eluding us!
Keep moving forward........
Ken
Quote from: Macjl on November 21, 2017, 08:55:17 PM
I shall tune out now.
It may help you to know, Macjl, that I have been using a Tormek since 2002 and even though I could add the Advanced Water Trough to my machine, I don't really see the need for it. I just catch the spilled water that overflows. As you gain experience your technique will develop and you will find yourself spilling less water.
For whatever it is worth, I saw this quote in an article:
"Make sure you have a "wet" area to use the grinder in - expect to get wet!" :D
http://www.woodworkersinstitute.com/woodworking-crafts/kit-tools/ancillary-equipment/sharpening/tormek-1200
Interesting article, however I have a couple of issues with it.
The author states he would not use the smaller Tormek (or perhaps any Tormek) for sharpening chisels and planes for furniture making. Is this based on actual use or having read that an 8000 grit waterstone should be used? For decades (centuries) Arkansas stones were are still are used as the polishing stones by furniture makers. These legendary stones have no finer grit than the Tormek PA-70 honing compound. The author offers no supporting evidence for his recommendation.
I think the water spillage issue is overblown. I watched Steve Bottorff demonstrate with a T4 and T7 all day with the Tormeks just placed on cardboard over a new expensive workbench. There was some water spillage, however, it was very minimal. I think much spillage is the result of poor technique. I do use a Tormek rubber mat, however not much water spills. A turkey baster helps control spillage when removing the water.
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on December 16, 2017, 09:16:19 AM
... I watched Steve Bottorff demonstrate with a T4 and T7 all day with the Tormeks just placed on cardboard over a new expensive workbench. There was some water spillage, however, it was very minimal. I think much spillage is the result of poor technique. I do use a Tormek rubber mat, however not much water spills. A turkey baster helps control spillage when removing the water.
Ken
You've mentioned this before... but as I said earlier, if Steve is sharpening with his usual method, from the horizontal support, water runoff isn't really an issue, because it doesn't build up on the knife/tool.
Ran across this on Instagram... a guy actually made a little "rain gutter" (my term)... to help channel the water (from the machine side)...
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3433.0;attach=1447)
https://instagram.com/p/BEnC8BPgCgU
... (if you follow the link, you can see it in action).
Quote from: Ken S on November 22, 2017, 10:04:54 PM
Good comments. From my unscientific viewpoint, I don't think the volume in the tray is what matters. I think what is important is the amount of arc of the grinding wheel which is submerged and bringing up water. I like to keep the flowing water to a minimum, so I keep the water level as low as possible.
Keep up the critical thinking.
Ken
I don't think any of that matters. I believe it is simple physics. I think the amount of water on the wheel is the result of the surface tension of water. If the full width of the wheel contacts the water (and breaks the surface tension), as it exits contact with the water, the surface tension will cause the same amount of water to be carried up the wheel, regardless of how deeply the wheel was submerged in the water.
If you want to reduce the amount of water on the wheel, I believe you would need to devise a controlled water application, similar to how coolant is applied to the cutter and work pieces on machine tools (flood coolant on lathes & mills but "flood" would not different, perhaps worse). It may be as little as dripping water on the back side of the wheel without the wheel being submerged in a pool of water at all, or a small stream of water. I think the latter as without enough water, you lose the benefit/function of water on the wheel - cooling.
Rick
Quote from: RickKrung on December 16, 2017, 05:39:16 PM
I don't think any of that matters. I believe it is simple physics. I think the amount of water on the wheel is the result of the surface tension of water. If the full width of the wheel contacts the water (and breaks the surface tension), as it exits contact with the water, the surface tension will cause the same amount of water to be carried up the wheel, regardless of how deeply the wheel was submerged in the water.
If you want to reduce the amount of water on the wheel, I believe you would need to devise a controlled water application, similar to how coolant is applied to the cutter and work pieces on machine tools (flood coolant on lathes & mills but "flood" would not different, perhaps worse). It may be as little as dripping water on the back side of the wheel without the wheel being submerged in a pool of water at all, or a small stream of water. I think the latter as without enough water, you lose the benefit/function of water on the wheel - cooling.
Rick
Replying to my own post... Depth of submersion could make a difference, but again due to surface tension. Water attached to the sides of the wheel would be carried up and add to the amount of water on the grinding surface. But by how much?
Rick
Ken,
I figured his comment:
" Tormek would argue that you don't need any bench stones and that you can sharpen as well as grind. Well, you can, but for furniture making I wouldn't recommend sharpening plane blades and chisels with it."
would be met with varied responses. It seemed a little odd to me. I thought about starting a thread about it and didn't. I am sure it it would take some finesse to make a furniture maker happy. However, I think with practice one could create a truly straight cutting edge on a plane blade with the Tormek.
In regard to the water quote, I was putting that put out there for a laugh. Personally my sharpening has been mainly done outside and I was not concerned about spillage, the most of which came from handling the water through.
Elden,
I think "furniture making" is a rather broad category. While I can see the possibility of some parts of furniture being very high end, where one might want to finish with a very fine stone. One could still do the majority of this sharpening, the harder labor, with a Tormek, doing the final step or two with very fine bench stones. However, much of furniture making, even high end, involves using secondary woods. A fine mahagony Queen Anne highboy may have oak inner parts, like interior drawer parts. I can't imagine a chisel or a plane which is skillfully sharpened on a Tormek not being up to these tasks.
Some of the leading proponents of bench stones happen to sell bench stones.I mean no negative implications, just that there are different valid ways to sharpen. A top quality set of oil or waterstones can rival a Tormek in cost.
I set up my Tormek outside on my Workmate one time years ago. It was not only pleasant, it was eye opening. For the first time, I could really see my Anglemaster. I recommend this outdoor experience for all Tormekers.
Good post, Elden. Thanks.
Ken
Quote from: RickKrung on December 16, 2017, 05:56:01 PM
Quote from: RickKrung on December 16, 2017, 05:39:16 PM
I don't think any of that matters. I believe it is simple physics. I think the amount of water on the wheel is the result of the surface tension of water. If the full width of the wheel contacts the water (and breaks the surface tension), as it exits contact with the water, the surface tension will cause the same amount of water to be carried up the wheel, regardless of how deeply the wheel was submerged in the water.
If you want to reduce the amount of water on the wheel, I believe you would need to devise a controlled water application, similar to how coolant is applied to the cutter and work pieces on machine tools (flood coolant on lathes & mills but "flood" would not different, perhaps worse). It may be as little as dripping water on the back side of the wheel without the wheel being submerged in a pool of water at all, or a small stream of water. I think the latter as without enough water, you lose the benefit/function of water on the wheel - cooling.
Rick
Replying to my own post... Depth of submersion could make a difference, but again due to surface tension. Water attached to the sides of the wheel would be carried up and add to the amount of water on the grinding surface. But by how much?
Rick
Yup... my point exactly that I was trying to say a while back. Seems like no matter how little water's in the trough... it still builds up and runs off the knife (when sharpening off the vertical USB).
So if surface tension is the culprit, try a surfactant such as Amway LOC or simply dish soap?
I am interested in knowing from the experts : is water needed at the point where the cutting edge is sharpened (I.e., for cooling), or merely for keeping the wheel cool & for washing away the swarf ?
I ask as Eldon drove a thought about what would happen if too much surfactant were added and little or no water was drawn to the sharpening site.
Rich
Quote from: RichColvin on December 17, 2017, 01:17:17 PM
I am interested in knowing from the experts : is water needed at the point where the cutting edge is sharpened (I.e., for cooling), or merely for keeping the wheel cool & for washing away the swarf ?
I ask as Eldon drove a thought about what would happen if too much surfactant were added and little or no water was drawn to the sharpening site.
Rich
I'm no 'expert' but will tell you my experience... one thing I tested in this was no water at all... letting the stone soak up water, then turning it off to let the excess drain (I found that even with the trough removed, if I did it while the wheel was running, I would still get a bit of water build up/runoff)... then sharpening a knife.
I didn't notice the blade getting hot at all... but I quickly got a lot of swarf buildup, that I could see becoming more of a mess to deal with than having water runoff. :o
So, I'd say it's more for keeping things clean... cooling would be secondary... at least as long as the wheel is at least a little 'wet'. (Guess a completely dry stone could be tried... but kinda defeats the whole point). ???
Quote from: Elden on December 17, 2017, 06:34:20 AM
So if surface tension is the culprit, try a surfactant such as Amway LOC or simply dish soap?
If you do dish soap... I'd suggest very little... since the stone will stir the water...
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3433.0;attach=1449)
;)
The water is for washing away the swarf as you call it. I call it filings. After all, Rikon makes a "low speed" grinder that turns at a leisurely 1750 RPMs and has no cooling ability. The 90 RPMs of the Tormek would never heat anything to hot unless you applied tremendous pressure to the workpiece at which time the Tormek would not run anyway.
Movement of water caused by rotation of the grindstone partially immerged in water is quite complex matter. The surface tension describes cohesive forces of attraction acting between the water molecules near the water surface.
Other factor important for our considerations is the behavior at the water-stone interface. We have to know how the water adheres to the stone surface. In physics it is described by so called contact angle, which shows the stone wettability.
Stone surface roughness has an effect on the contact angle.
All above mentioned is true in stationary case. For rotating stone the contact angle is different from its value at rest.
Jan