T4 and acknowledged water spillage issue

[Macjl]

I am the very new owner of a T4 with the straight edge jig. I bought a Tormek because of the company's assertion of being the very best in water cooled sharpening technology. At UK£350 I would hope so!! I have no issue with the overall quality and effectiveness. i'm a happy bunny! EXCEPT when I am sharpening my 2 3/8th plane iron. Water everywhere when the iron is moved over the left off the stone. The water level in the trough is not over full by the way. £350 and I have to pack rags and sponges around the base of the machine to protect my workbench! Why am I ticked off? Because Tormek acknowledged the problem (refer to their manual) and produced a water chute specifically for this problem. But not for the T4!!!!!!! Are T4 users not meant to use Stanley 4 1/2 planes? Since Tormek know that there is an issue I simply cannot understand why they have refused to offer a simple jig solution for the T4 community. Is it lack of interest in us or just arrogance? I don't wish to offend but if Tormek is, as they consistently say, the No.1 company in this field, this unacceptable quality issue must be addressed and quickly. I'll buy the water chute jig. I don't expect something for nothing. I do expect a responsible and professional reaction from a top company. Any and all comments would be appreciated, especially from a Tormek representative.

[cbwx34]

I am the very new owner of a T4 with the straight edge jig. I bought a Tormek because of the company's assertion of being the very best in water cooled sharpening technology. At UK£350 I would hope so!! I have no issue with the overall quality and effectiveness. i'm a happy bunny! EXCEPT when I am sharpening my 2 3/8th plane iron. Water everywhere when the iron is moved over the left off the stone. The water level in the trough is not over full by the way. £350 and I have to pack rags and sponges around the base of the machine to protect my workbench! Why am I ticked off? Because Tormek acknowledged the problem (refer to their manual) and produced a water chute specifically for this problem. But not for the T4!!!!!!! Are T4 users not meant to use Stanley 4 1/2 planes? Since Tormek know that there is an issue I simply cannot understand why they have refused to offer a simple jig solution for the T4 community. Is it lack of interest in us or just arrogance? I don't wish to offend but if Tormek is, as they consistently say, the No.1 company in this field, this unacceptable quality issue must be addressed and quickly. I'll buy the water chute jig. I don't expect something for nothing. I do expect a responsible and professional reaction from a top company. Any and all comments would be appreciated, especially from a Tormek representative.

I'm not a plane iron sharpener, (and not a Tormek rep)... but I'm wondering if a small tray or shelf container... like in the attached picture, might help with your problem?

[Macjl]

Thank you for your excellent suggestion. Greatly appreciated.
Should Tormek customers have to improvise tho?
I don't think it is appropriate that we have to go to Homebase and look for a tray the right size to accommodate a failing in the way a £300 product has been brought to market.
I'm looking forward to a post from Tormek soon.
Thanks again for your reply.

[Elden]

Welcome to the forum. May I suggest that you utilize the " contact and support " from the home page of the Tormek site? At times Sitg will reply here, but we are told the support is the more excellent way to get a response from headquarters.

Edit:
I looked up the address.

support@tormek.se

[Macjl]

Thanks for the advice. Will do.
I'd really like to know if there are others out there who share my lack of understanding on this issue.

[Ken S]

Macji,

I can feel your frustration. I have two planes wuth 2 3/8" wide blades, a 1909 vintage 607 Bedrock and a #6 Stanley only slightly newer. I also have a T4. The last time I sharpened one of these blades, I used my T7. I will put sharpening one of them with the T4 on my to do list and report. Unfortunately, my to do list is presently unusually long. I will do this and report back.

Ken

[cbwx34]

Thank you for your excellent suggestion. Greatly appreciated.
Should Tormek customers have to improvise tho?
I don't think it is appropriate that we have to go to Homebase and look for a tray the right size to accommodate a failing in the way a £300 product has been brought to market.
I'm looking forward to a post from Tormek soon.
Thanks again for your reply.

I don't think the tray has to be very particular size... just something there to catch the water.

I see your side... although I don't see the "water runoff" as being particularly hard to deal with... so I don't see it really as being a black mark against a quality machine... if that makes any sense.  Even, as you stated, it's only one tool that seems to be causing the issue  (although longer knives will too).  Maybe try sharpening on the other side (wheel turning away)... this keeps water from building up on the tool and running off.  It's what I do for knives sometimes.  (Like I said, don't do plane blades, so just a suggestion).  I suppose it would be nice ot have an accessory available to address it.  (Always a continuing development process I suppose).   

[jeffs55]

Thanks for the advice. Will do.
I'd really like to know if there are others out there who share my lack of understanding on this issue.

For what it is worth, this is an issue on the Supergrind as well. This is pre T7 so pre T8 as well. Just put your T4 into a sheet pan or cafeteria tray and dry the tool when through. At least you will keep water off your table. Sorry.

[Macjl]

I appreciate all of your replies and suggestions. Thank you very much.
However, my point is that we are all talking about "making do". That is not acceptable. Tormek needs to offer us a solution that does not require us to "make do" on their premium, world-leading product.
Their silence is deafening by the way !!!!

[brettgrant99]

...
Their silence is deafening by the way !!!!

I would not expect an answer on the forum.  Did you call them or their distributor?  No product is perfect.  Since this issue is so egregious to you, perhaps you should consider returning it and finding a solution that will work for you rather than to keep complaining about it.

I think that I will tune out now.

[Stickan]

I appreciate all of your replies and suggestions. Thank you very much.
However, my point is that we are all talking about "making do". That is not acceptable. Tormek needs to offer us a solution that does not require us to "make do" on their premium, world-leading product.
Their silence is deafening by the way !!!!

Hi,
I have sent you an email.

As usual, contacting support@tormek.se is always better to get a faster answer. We have a 24h response time there. The Forum will take longer for me to check as I am often " On the run".
This Forum is a great place to get help from our experienced members when it comes to "hands on" tips and tricks and the members thoughts and skills regarding our products.

In general, water leads all kind of ways and some tools will make water to get around the machine instead of in the through. When it comes to design, there is always give and takes, there is no 100% solution for all tools you might have in a workshop. We try to make the machine and jigs to cover most of the tools that needs to be sharpened. It might come with a disadvantage as getting water-spillage for example. We have accessories for this, like the RM-533 rubbermat, that is the same mat as on the sharpening station, it will stop water getting on a table or workbench.
Or simply using a serving tray.

Best,
Stig

[Macjl]

Thanks for coming back to me Stig.
I appreciate it.
Weirdly I had the rubber mat delivered today. I bought this to see if it alleviates the water loss.
I'll give it a go. I'm sure it will help. Thanks.

[Macjl]

In response to brettgrant 99, I think you should read my initial post more carefully. I am far from thinking the T4 is "egregious". As you know, egregious means outstandingly bad or shocking. I quote myself, "I am a happy bunny". You have used the  word wrongly.
FYI I did indeed contact the distributor before coming to the forum. Shaun of G&S Specialist Timber could not have been more helpful and friendly and did all he could to get a satisfactory response. I would unreservedly recommend this company to anyone.
I make absolutely no apology for complaining (I hope politely and respectfully). It is often the only way to highlight an issue of concern and to understand how best to deal with it.
I am not complaining about your post by the way!! Thank you for the comment. I shall be keeping the T4.
I shall tune out now.

[Ken S]

Macji,

Do not tune out, and certainly do not apologize for complaining. As I promised, I have run a test. I just sharpened the 2 3/8" wide blade from my Stanley number six plane. I used the T4, SG-200, and standard water trough. I used the SE-77 and added a slight camber. Incidentally, whenever I test anything involving a Tormek product, Tormek never gets a free pass.

I routinely place the Tormek on the Tormek Rubber Work Mat. I know there are less expensive options, however, the Tormek Mat is very well made and works very well.

The test consisted of sharpening this one blade. At the end of the test, there was no water on the mat from the grinding wheel. The few drops on the rubber mat were from the stone grader. I did find a bit of water directly under the water trough on the T4 frame. This drop was small, only about half an inch or twelve millimeter.

I do not doubt what you say. I think I know what is causing the problem. I normally suction most of the water out if the water trough with a turkey baster. (This works very well; I recommend everyone purchase a turkey baster for his Tormek.) Today I forgot and just hand carried the trough to the sink. I looked at the water level. It was about half of the maximum line. I think the problem is that you are overfilling the trough. I start the motor and fill until water starts to flow on the grinding wheel. I let the motor keep running. Soon the grinding wheel will have absorbed enough water that the top of the wheel becomes dry. Add water, just enough to get the water flowing a little again. You may have to repeat this a couple to several times. When the water flows without being absorbed, you are ready to sharpen. I learned this from watching Steve Bottorff, a real deal Tormek expert at a woodworking show. Both Tormeks, T4 and T7 ran all day without needing to be refilled, and I did not see water beneath either. I don't recall any wide planes being sharpened that day. Watching Steve left quite an impression with me.

I try not to travel too far across the stone with the blade. This may or may not effect the water.

I email Stig frequently. He has answered me from many places, including Chicago, Finland, and Poland, usually from an airport. I know his travel schedule is extensive. He is always good about answering.

With the forum, very few of us own a T4. That is not a criticism of the T4. A substantial number of forum members are longtime SuperGrind users. Chances are, your Tormek will last beyond your lifetime. This certainly includes the T4. For many years, the larger size was the only model available in the US. This was primarily due to electric power differences. Also, the US market was primarily woodturners, whereas the European market was more oriented toward knives.

I upgraded to the larger trough for my T7. Frankly, I have never used the water slide. I don't sharpen planer blades and my longest kitchen knife is eight inches or two hundred millimeters.

I hope this is a satisfactory answer for you. Do not hesitate to ask questions!

Ken

[cbwx34]

I think the problem is that you are overfilling the trough. I start the motor and fill until water starts to flow on the grinding wheel. I let the motor keep running. Soon the grinding wheel will have absorbed enough water that the top of the wheel becomes dry. Add water, just enough to get the water flowing a little again. You may have to repeat this a couple to several times. When the water flows without being absorbed, you are ready to sharpen. I learned this from watching Steve Bottorff, a real deal Tormek expert at a woodworking show. Both Tormeks, T4 and T7 ran all day without needing to be refilled, and I did not see water beneath either. I don't recall any wide planes being sharpened that day. Watching Steve left quite an impression with me.

Ken

Ken,

Is Steve sharpening edge leading (on top of the stone), or his usual setup?  I simply cannot duplicate this, on knives anyway, edge leading, without water building up on the knife and running off to the side.

This morning I tried to duplicate what you posted... letting the stone absorb water, then leaving just enough water in the trough to barely touch the stone... to the point of the stone just breaking the surface.  I still get water building up on the knife and running off to the side.  (Even with no water in the trough I see this... unless I turn off the stone and let the excess drain out).

Trying to figure out why this doesn't work for me.

Thanks!

Edit:  I should add... I can control it by not "tipping" the knife too much, so the water drops off at the edge of the stone, and not on the machine or off the edge onto the table... maybe that's really the technique?