Messages

CB,

Unfortunately, I must agree with you again. When facebook arrived, so many people dropped off the planet with email. I already spend too much time online with the forum. I hate to spend any more time with facebook and instagram. However, that seems the way to keep current...grumble, grumble.

Ken

The reality is, the social media platforms are also replacing the forums.  (This has nothing to do with Tormek, it has happened elsewhere).  You might have to "rebudget" your time.

I let my wife answer that..... 

This Forum has had a steady growth the last years and I believe its becasue of you users with a higher wish of understanding how things work.
For many user this forum is to advanced for what they need to know and they are ok by getting info from our handbook, DVD, Web-page or easier social medias.

Sincerely,
Stig

Hi,
There is many platforms to keep information going all the time.  Tormek has dedicated staff to work on the social media platforms, with the exception of this forum at this time.

This forum should be a Tormek forum, used by users and not with to much influence by Tormek. Also, this Forum is more advanced than the social media where is not allowed to use to many letters or streaming.

When it comes to dedicated questions, please use support@tormek.se as we will be able to set more time to answer an e-mail than to keep track of all questions that are in a topic.
Since I am basically the man to answer Tormek questions here and I am travelling intensively during several periods a year, an email will be answered faster from received by e-mail mail than on the forum.

Sincerely,
Stig

I think if a company rep writes... "I have never felt that I need another solution"... there might be room for a little doubt.

But, on a positive note, I also received a test unit of Rick's modified Stop Collar, and am enjoying trying it out.  I'll post a review here in a few days, when I try it on a few more knives... but I don't foresee any issues.  Very nice job on the welds... everything lines up nicely... he does quality work.
[/quote]

I see you point :-)
We always want to be the company who brings new jigs and solutions for the customers. The largest task is to make a jig that works as good as possible for a kind of tool instead of having more jigs in our system that would sell in a small amount.
This forum has been great for those who solved a problem and made their own jig or adaption of a jig.

Those who how actually met me in real life here on the Forum, I think and hope that I made the impression that we always are listening to new ideas. And that my interest in sharpening is way deeper than only being a company rep.
So when I write that I never felt that I needed another solution, that's the fact for me personally.

The stop collar do look very nice made and I hope that it will help you with the difficulties you have had with our jig.

Sincerely,
Stig

Hi,
One solution with short blades is to mount the jig as close to the handle as possible and pivot the handle on the knife upwards while sharpening and not follow the curve on the blade.

Sincerely,
Stig

True, but this depends on how much curve there is in the belly to tip area.  If there's a lot, lifting the handle will raise the angle as you approach the tip, and can also, ever so slightly, start to reshape the tip area to a more 'blunt' tip... (in other words, increase the angle between the spine and bevel, as you look at the knife from the side.  It's hard to notice at first).

The goal will be to get a edgeline that is constant. Some knifes need a crossing between lifting the handle and following the shape of the blade when you are sharpening them. And knowing this comes by experience. Using a marker and see how you need to use the different methods is a good start to understand how to sharpen most knifes.
Personally and after some thousand knifes I've sharpened I am able to use the jig solution we have. I have never felt that I need another solution except with the thinner blades which the SVM-00 jig helped with.

Sincerely,
Stig

Hi,
One solution with short blades is to mount the jig as close to the handle as possible and pivot the handle on the knife upwards while sharpening and not follow the curve on the blade.

Sincerely,
Stig

Hi,
The shipment left Sweden in end of December and should be in the states.
I will contact them today to sort this out.

Best,
Stig

Hi all,
For info, the EA-240 is a discontinued product and has been for over ten years.This web-dealer had got hold on one of our warranty wheels. We normally have spares so it last for 20 years. They will remove this article from their website.
We found that leather and compound was a better solution than this composite wheel as the edge got sharper and less problems with rounding the edge.

Sincerely,
Stig

Hi,
The stonegrader will wear down. It should last as long as one stone.
To prevent it to get hollowed, us the stonegrader in different places, and move it on the stone frequently.

Sincerely,
Stig

Hi,
Years ago we actually used a composite wheel on the larger machine.
Using a composite wheel on for instance a chisel that has a one-side edge with a flat back-surface can easily round the edge and needs a long learning curve.
Moving to leather and compound had several positive effects as sharper edges as it gets more polished with compound and the soft leather gives the user more control to not round the edge.

A diamondwheel should not run in water without any protection, such as Honerite gold or similar.

Since the T-2 is a low speed machine, diamond is very suitable and can be used dry and the composite honing-wheel  is easy to use on a knife as the need for compound is not needed. This machine is good in an environment where you need an easy solution to keep knifes sharp 24/7.

Testing with the Bess method would not give users the same score as we all have individually levels and experience using the Tormek machines.
The difference between "good enough" to "very good" is sometimes just 10 seconds of use on the honingwheel which experienced users knows but I have met experienced furniture-builders on the highest level who has not used the honingwheel becasue they started using it wrong. After a short class with me they have come to an level which they previous did not think they could get.

So if a user who has not done the honing correct would do a bess test and put that online as a test, it could actually give people the wrong impression about how sharp it actually can get.
And for those who really know how to use the honingwheel and do a bess test, many users can not get the same result as they maybe did not spend enough time on the honingwheel or even rounded the edge a bit. Inexperience or just learned doing it not as described in the handbook.

On this Forum the experience of sharpening is on a high level but still we would probably get different Bess scores if we met and did a test.

I might be wrong as I have not tested the Bess method but I do know by experience that we all have slightly different way of doing things that would probably show when you are measuring sharpness with one method.

Best,
Stig

So, to summarize...

• All things being equal, (and assuming both used correctly), the leather wheel will give a better result?
• You apparently don't want BESS scores published?

Fair summary?

cbwx34,

The leather honing wheel gives a better result.

I have no problem with BESS scores being published but as I wrote, the result do depend of the skill of the person sharpening. That would be on any method of sharpening being used. Someone who have a higher skill of sharpening and honing/stropping would even get a better score.

Best,
Stig

Hi,
Years ago we actually used a composite wheel on the larger machine.
Using a composite wheel on for instance a chisel that has a one-side edge with a flat back-surface can easily round the edge and needs a long learning curve.
Moving to leather and compound had several positive effects as sharper edges as it gets more polished with compound and the soft leather gives the user more control to not round the edge.

A diamondwheel should not run in water without any protection, such as Honerite gold or similar.

Since the T-2 is a low speed machine, diamond is very suitable and can be used dry and the composite honing-wheel  is easy to use on a knife as the need for compound is not needed. This machine is good in an environment where you need an easy solution to keep knifes sharp 24/7.

Testing with the Bess method would not give users the same score as we all have individually levels and experience using the Tormek machines.
The difference between "good enough" to "very good" is sometimes just 10 seconds of use on the honingwheel which experienced users knows but I have met experienced furniture-builders on the highest level who has not used the honingwheel becasue they started using it wrong. After a short class with me they have come to an level which they previous did not think they could get.

So if a user who has not done the honing correct would do a bess test and put that online as a test, it could actually give people the wrong impression about how sharp it actually can get.
And for those who really know how to use the honingwheel and do a bess test, many users can not get the same result as they maybe did not spend enough time on the honingwheel or even rounded the edge a bit. Inexperience or just learned doing it not as described in the handbook.

On this Forum the experience of sharpening is on a high level but still we would probably get different Bess scores if we met and did a test.

I might be wrong as I have not tested the Bess method but I do know by experience that we all have slightly different way of doing things that would probably show when you are measuring sharpness with one method.

Best,
Stig

cbwx,

No need for that feeling 
Developing jigs is always a compromise and a jig should have a long lifetime.
All comments and discussions normally lead to a better jig, like when we did SE-77 and SVD-186. They are better then the model we had before them.
So when the time comes for an update on a jig, we always try to improve them on several bits.
The updates some years ago with SVM-45 was to lower then angle so narrower blades could be sharpened and lowered the adjustment screw and make the tolerances better in the jaw. And we changed it from aluminum to Zink. Good improvements at the time and helpful in many ways. When it's time for the next update, our discussion here will be remembered.

Sincerely,
Stig

Hi,
As usual we take all comments of "doing it better" to us and they will be a part of our discussions when the time is ready.

Sincerely,
Stig

I am the first to say that you have had bad luck with your purchase when it comes to the issue with the SVM-45 and TT-50. How shipping are done is sadly a bit out of my control even if we recommend to always ship with extra boxes and inlays to protect the machine.
I know that you are sharpening many knifes and I did mean to offend you in any way. My answer was a general view from my perspective.

Since I started working with Tormek we have replaced a handful of jigs and when we have measured them, they are within tolerances. One was slightly bent which we of course replaced as we did with your jig too.

Normally we would ask a customer to send the jigs to Sweden for inspection and measure them. In your case, this being your job, and you are far away from Sweden, makes this a bit more complicated.

I suggest that you and me continue this by using support@tormek.se and keep looking on to this issue until you are satisfied with the result.

Best,
Stig

Hi,
I think that there might be focus on the wrong thing here.
Personally I have not had many problems sharpening knifes during my years working for Tormek. But I got work-hours with experienced sharpeners in-house and my free-time to learn how to do it properly. Today knifes are my favourite tools to sharpen and I have become a bit of a knife junkie :-)

The jig is designed to be able to sharpen as wide range of knifes as possible.
Rebuilding or make a new jig will in to many cases make it more difficult to sharpen some types of knifes. I have never felt that I needed an upgrade becasue my obstacle has been in my head or hands.

I think that sharpening knifes is the task that needs most experience or longest learning curve when working with our jig system. For the regular user who has 5-10 knifes at home there is not many problems and its a 30 minutes learning curve to do a good job but when it comes to sharpen knifes in a business, you need to learn a lot about blades and how different brands and steel works.

We don't have many problems with the knife jig, question being asked about it is often solved by giving tips about how to use it.

I think it feels most natural to claim its something wrong with the jig when cases like this comes, but how can we be sure that the knife itself is 100% correct or made with a 50/50 grind when it's tapered? Most Japanese knifes are sharpened with a 30/70 edge offset which would show even worse when taking pictures of the angles on both sides.

There is a learning curve that is a bit longer when it comes to knifesharpening becasue the jig is only a help to keep the correct protrusion and even how to follow the edge up against the tip is a learning curve. All the different shapes and angles used for the different kind of user area is something that takes a while to learn.

In general, when I sharpen knifes, I use the marker method to sharpen someones knife with the same angle it had when he/she got it. If they would have a reason to change the angle i would use the WM-200.

What I am saying is pay more attention to the tool that is being sharpened.

Sincerely,
Stig

Hi,
When purchasing original Tormek wheels there is no need to use something between our SG and SJ stones.

Best,
Stig