Messages

Rick:
As I feared, while the Pin Vice clamps and allows sufficient clearance at the grind wheel face. The back end of the Drill bit is not supported sufficiently to provide the required centricity for sharpening.
Essentially the drill bit requires total support in the same way the DBS-22 supports bits larger then 3mm.
So this means a clamp similar in nature to the DBS-22 drill bit clamp perhaps a simplified slip in sub assembly which will cradle the drill bit in its full length from 3t5 mm of the grinding wheel to the fullest length of the bit shank.
A Pin Vice or a collet only provides clamping and support at the forward end of the drill bit which becomes very apparent when you begin the sharpening process of the sub 3mm drill bits.
This is a bit disappointing however perhaps someone else will step forward with another suggestion to aid us all in the pursuit of Sub 3mm drill bit sharpening
Thanks for Listening

[Drill Sharpening, the basics Harold Hall]

Starting from the beginning
Drill Sharpening, the basics  Harold Hall
http://www.homews.co.uk/page354.html
Small drill bits, <<1mm
https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=166364&p=1
Four Facet Sharpening of Small Twist Drills
http://www.modelenginenews.org/meng/smalldrilljig.html
Drill Sharpening Etc.
https://www.gadgetbuilder.com/DrillSharp.html
I received the set of 4 Starrett Pin Vices I found the one that fits the 1/8 in (3mm) drill bit
I used the DBS-22 Depth Guage to adjust the drill bit protrusion so that the Pin Vice clamp is ahead of the DBS-22 Drill Bit Clamp.
Placed the assembly on the DBS-22 slide for a trial fit for clearance of the drill bit and the Pin Vice vs the grinding wheel.
Low and behold we may have a viable solution for sub 3mm drills.
The Pin Vice appears to clear the grinding wheel and the Adjustment clamp of the Pin Vice does sit in front of the DBS-22 drill bit clamp.
Tomorrow I will attempt to sharpen the 1/8 inch drill bit using this assembly.
Thanks for Listening

Rick:
You are correct in regard to the shape of the Pin Vice and the issue of the drill bit slipping when mounted in the pinnace. As You said I intend to turn down the handle of the pinnace so it is totally round and allows sufficient clearance for the bit to sharpened. I will have a better idea when the Pin Vice set arrives tomorrow as to the amount of modification required to the Set Up. Regardless, your concept of using a Pin Vice for the Sub 3mm drill bits i believe is the correct approach. The Starette pin vice also uses a very precision clamping process and should result in the more accurate of the ones I have been looking at. The Harold Hall process of using a collet while extremely accurate, his jig is far more complicated than the Tormek DBS-22 set up. Plust Harold Hills set up was geared more to ward the model building which due to the scale of work requires a higher degree of accuracy than that of the Tormek approach.

After talking to Rick via email. The use of some means such as a pin vice to simulate a larger drill bit for the DBS-22 drill bit clamp. I have ordered a set of pin vices via Amazon and will continue on with Rick's idea. Rick has a great idea that just must be pursued. I even contacted Mats at Tormek Support and he also agrees there is a need for a simple means to sharpen sub 3mm drill bits

I have been spending a lot of time with my new Toy the DBS22. The thing I most appreciate about it is the support from Tormek themselves and all the forum members who are more than happy to share their experiences.
What truly amazes me about the DBS-22 is how long it has been around an I am only finding out about it nearly ten years late.
My poor drill bits are giving me the stink eye I can tell you. I have abused my drill bits something terrible. It is a good thing Dormer new that people like me exist and seem to have built drills that actually last.
Now that I have the DBS-22 I intend to sharpen every drill prior to using it, If I have not already done so. Just sitting down and sharpening a drill bit just to say you have done it does not really prove anything. Sharpen a drill bit for a specific task will bring rewards in the form of consistent chips that virtually fly out of the metal, in a good way, not in a dangerous manner. So far nothing I have drilled since learning how to sharpen my drill bits with a 4-Facet point has never failed to amaze me with the seemingly effortless process it is now to drill a clean hole. Ken S is right on his comment about creating a Setup Checklist. In my case I use a single page complete with the Illustration from the DBS-22 Manual and its descriptive write up, so in a few short pages I have the complete Setup for each step of the process. There is noting worse than missing a step and having to retrace each step to find out where you went of the rails. With the DBS-22 once you have the process firmly in your mind following the Checklist becomes natural and the consistent results are the reward.
Now Getting my old hands to follow the process can at times be a different story. The lie thing about the Tormek is it is a slow turning water cooled grinding wheel. However do not equate slow turning to slow grinding. you will be amazed just how fast the proper stone cuts metal and all without any discolouration or micro-cracks of the drill bit or tool bit being sharpened. With the Tormek you have time to watch the drill bit facet forming and with practice catch any area which may be going of the rails such as not keeping the drill bit aligned with the Drill Bit Clamp which will result in a deformed Facet which can be tidied up quite easily with a little practice.
The DBS-22 is a pleasure to use and gives in return huge returns in the Drill press under pressure.
Thanks for Listening

Having gone through this exact same problem.
My initial attempt I thought I got the Primary Facet exactly as per the manual.
SO What to do, I found worked for me was editing the Instruction Manual for a 16 page Illustrated Instruction Manual to an 89 Page expanded Illustrated Instruction Manual.
Then I had to follow the Manual exactly as written.
It was very tedious and very time consuming.
I found that my Primary Facet was not ground perfectly, however with more patience, and slowing down, I was able to get the Primary Facet exactly as described.
Note this involves ensuring the final grinds are aligned with the line on the Drill Bitt Holder.
When I then moved onto the Secondary Facet grind, I noticed it was the heel of the bit that showed the Secondary Facet Grind that began to appear.
As Ken S said, slow down and sneak up on the Secondary Facet. The Secondary Facet seems to happen much faster than the Primary so go very slow, and ensure as you inspect you work to touch up the drill bit alignment as from my experience, gores very fast and the least bit off alignment you will see the facet look very lopsided very easily. this is cured by careful attention to the alignment.
That First Secondary Facet is a real thrill as you see it develop and are able to vary it back and forth with the drill bit alignment, This is where the use of the magnifier really helps. A tiny adjust meant, a single pass and you will see the facet development.
Patience and consitintancy pays off in 4-Facet dividends.

At first I could not understand the why for the mod. At first I thought Tormek may have changed the dimensions of the base plate. I was wrong. I looked again carefully as to the reason for the mod. Before the mod the movable portion of the Jig over runs to base plate. With the mod the movable portion of the Jig is more balanced on the base plate. So it looks like I will have to do this modification to balance to movable portion on the static baseplate.
This is just a wonderful piece of kit and while it works very well the way it is, this mod should make the overall balance and the resulting grind a much more smooth operation and keep more of the movable portion operating on the centre of the baseplate.
Thanks again to everyone who share their experience to make our lives easier.
How ever My thought is why does Tormek not make the base plate a little wider and modify the mount to allow for the shifting of the baseplate so the grinding operation stays dead centre on the baseplate centred on the Grinding wheel.
Thanks for Listening.

The key for me, was sticking to the process as illustrated and written. I had difficulty, with the Instruction Manual as written, really only because there was to much on one page. The Manual is well written, very very few intensional mistakes. I did point out some to Mats at Tormek, who replied I was correct and that the Swedish version did not word it in the manner expressed in English.
The Key for me is, SLOW DOWN, ONE STEP, ONE STEP, ONE STEP.
Initially this may seem like you are just plodding along.
Believe Me, IF You Follow Exactly As The Manual Says, You Are Making Good Progress.
The End Results Will Show All your Adherence To Detail.
The Jig IS Simple, The Process Is Simple, Learning to Follow The Exact Process Can At First Seem Tedious, However When You See Your First Drill Bit With 4 Perfect Facets, You Will Forget All The Drudgery of the Process.
You will Want to turn on the Drill Press and Start Drilling Holes.
I have a Lathe project which requires an extensive amount of Hole drilling which have to be very precise.
So My First Thought Was How Or Where to Find Sharp Accurate Drill Bits.
Purchasing New Drill Bits Is Pricey, What About Sharpening My 40 year Old Premium Grade Drill Bits.
I did not what a Single Purpose Drill Bit Sharpening Device that gathers dust when not in use.
I began hearing good Things about the Tormek Drill Bit Sharpener.
Since I Already Owned a Much Upgraded Tormek 2000 Machine, Look at the DBS-22 Jig.
I watched several YouTube Videos. I was hooked.
When it arrived and I opened the box. I knew I had made the right choice.
No Second Rate attachment, This is a Real No Holds Bared Jig designed to sharpen Drill Bits.
Yes, I struggled to learn how.
With the help of forum Members and Factory Support, I attacked the process as an opportunity to learn and grow. As I am now retired at 79 I guess it is time for me to learn something right.
The DBS-22 Is a First Rate Accessory which compliments the Tormek Sharpening System and now has a permanent place in my shop.
Thanks for Listening

[Intent]

My First Attempt, turned out reasonable on the Primary Facet. When I reset for the Secondary I found I did not have a full grasp of not just the concept but the total setup and grinding process.
When I started the Secondary Facet grind, I found the Primary Facet totally disappeared.
Where did I go wrong.
I spoke with Ken and Mats at Tormek, I obtained a pdf copy of the DBS-22 Instructions.
I then spent 2 days and edited the Instruction Manual to give me One Process One Drawing per Page.
OK So I now have an 89 Page Instruction Manual, SO What!!
I started Over Square One, Using the New One Page, One Process Instruction Manual, No other illustrations to confuse my thought process.
Tormek has done an excellent job in the Design and Illustration/Documentation process, It just does not work for me. Why?
I need to be forced into the one Step, One Process, One Drawing, One write up way of Thinking/Working.
OK So What!
The Point here is I am no different than most other people.
What I need is to follow the Illustrated Manual Exactly as Illustrated and Written.
When I started Over and Followed the Intent of the Original Instruction Manual Every thing worked.
Each and Every Step, in the Process, saw exactly as is illustrated in the Instruction Manual.
The Primary Facet when ground was exactly as depicted in the Illustrated Instruction Manual.
Next, this is where I ran right of the rails on my first attempt.
Using the New One Step, One Illustration, One Write Up Process.
The Secondary Facet started to show progress with the first pass across the grinding wheel. My initial grind was the reverse of what I thought. The Initial grind was coming from the Heel. and working toward the Primary Facet.
Caution if you see the developing Facet looking uneven, this is corrected by ensuring the Cutting Edge is aligned using the magnifier with the centre mark on the Drill Bit Holder.
I did follow Ken's reminder to "Sneak" up on the Secondary Facet.
As The Secondary was beginning to form it did not have that two step overlapping look.
So I took it even slower,
This paid off as the Secondary Facet slowly began to form and I saw after each pass, the development of the multi Faceted Drill Bit.
Wow, as I slowed down and took my time and paid careful attention to each pass the Secondary Facet just began to form and as it crept up on the point and I began to see the two distinct facets over lap as in the Illustrations in the Instruction Manual it became exciting to achieve the Factory like finish right before my eyes on my machine in my shop, in my hands.
Thank You Tormek

[Perform the following Rites Precisely As Inscribed in the Ancient Swedish Rhunes:]

I received my DBS-22 yesterday.
Having watched many Youtube videos, and how in my view people have gone off track, I sat and read the instruction manual. It is a very set by step process. One in which a person could get out od sequence, more likely just get impatient and skip an important step.
I did get a little confused on how to set the cutting depth for the Primary Facet. I had to reposition P several time until I was satisfied, I was following the instruction but had difficulty with which way to rotate P to set the maximum grinding depth. First pass was not flat. readjusted my hands to conform to the illustration. Try again, Voila. A nice flat Chisel type facet. Repeat and I now have two exactly the same Primary Facets.
Wow! That was an experience. very unlike some of the YouTube Horror Stories.
HERE IS MY SECRET
There is no reason the Tormek DBS-22 device cannot deliver a perfect drill bit on the first attempt:

Perform the following Rites Precisely As Inscribed in the Ancient Swedish Rhunes:

1.   Floor-Dry must circle the entire sharpening area without a break to prevent the entry of all Dark Forces of Oil and Corrosion.
2.   The Ancient Swedish Mystical Rhunes must be followed in Precise Sequence to enable the Thaumaturgic Incantations to grant Entrance to Drill Nirvana

I know you needed a laugh.

You would sharpen a Japanese knife basically the same way as a Western knife.

Here's a discussion of the issue: http://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=236.0

It always seems I am late to the party.
I built Herman's HK-50 Jig and have been using it ever since with my Japanese Knives.
Both single and double bevel.
using the manufactures recommended bevel set up the Jig for the appropriate grind angle.
I use either the SG-250 or the SB-250 to establish the Knife bevel and polish the blade bevel with the SJ-250
If you polish the blade using the SJ-250 on a frequent basis you will never need to get out the SG or SB stones.
I have one really hard steel blade FUJIWARA MABOROSHI GYUTO 180MM the SG-250 would not touch the steel but the SB-250 established the blade bevel in two passes and the SJ-250 has been polishing the edge ever since.
Using the Tormek with the HK-50 jig replicates the Japanese water stone sharpening technique with the precision of the Tormek.

LED Conversion has another advantage in the shop, heat, currently many use halogen spot lamps which are extremely hot when used up close. I have been using the new LED lamps and the light output is not quite up to the same level however the lamp can be moved closer to the object without experiencing any significant heat build up.
One other interesting fact is the use of LED as illumination for digital microscopes has enabled significant improvement in observations where heat has been a serious issue in the past.
My current shop using T5 fluorescent lamps and LED projector bulbs is brighter and significantly cooler, and draws less than half the previously AC power.

Herman:
My wife just finished a complete rebuild of our Kitchen and ALL of her new lighting is LED.
There is no question the LED lighting is efficient and draws very little power compared to the compact fluorescent or the filament bulbs. The only current down side of the LED's is the purchase price.

Herman:
I agree on the light issue. In my shot I have 3 T5 Lights, the Electrician asked if I knew what I was doing as these are really bright.
The magnifier is also a good idea.
I am thinking along the idea of a shaped tray base where the slash water ends up in a hose drain to something like a 2 Litre  milk bottle, as it has a handle.
My current thoughts on lights are either the T5 Fluorescence or the new LED lights as a spot light up close and personal style.

Herman:
Thanks for your input. Your comment of 3/4 inch plywood is exactly what I intend to use. I do not intend to use the Rotating Base either, as I intend to build the Stand on a wheeled base with lock downs. Good point on the vinyl flooring as it does provide a non slip surface. I am also thinking of building the top with an adjustable platform so I can control the run off of the splash water into a drain which can be dumped or recycled as required.
I have found the use of the three stones a huge benefit. I am able to replicate the Japanese knife sharpening technique of at least 3 stone grits and provides a Shaping (remove dents and gouges, establish Working Edge Bevel) Sharpening and Polishing functions.
I will let you know how my progress goes and if there is a way I can forward photos to you let me know and I will attempt to comply.