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On a practical basis, how many knives would really benefit from having a convexed edge compared with the shallow concave standard edge of a Tormek wheel?

Ken

This may sound as a question from a Newbie, and, well, let it be.
I have years of experience with German or French blades, but Orient is new to me.
I recently bought some Takamura Hamono VG-10 knives, pretty thin blades, which are sold as convex grind.
I use a T8, with Japanese stone, when required.
Will it make any difference, for the user, when I have to re-sharpen them ?
Thanks in advance.
EriVan

A couple novice questions here, concerning the burr on knives.  I have been using a T-8 for some months now, mostly on kitchen knives.  Sometimes I can get a knife pretty sharp (cuts paper), but other times not so much. I generally shoot for 30 degrees (15 on each side).  Whether I make a single pass per side, or several passes on one side, then several passes on the other, I seem unable to detect the fabled burr.

I run my thumb or finger nail across the edge, anticipating a rough edge/catch, but I just don't feel it.  I went out and bought several magnifying loupes, but honestly don't see anything, either.

Last month, I went to a knife maker who demonstrated sharpening a knife on a type of belt device, and the burr on that knife was obvious. So I must be doing all sorts of things wrong. 

I think I have exhausted every video on Youtube and have poked around this forum as well, so any guidance on any of these questions is really appreciated.

Questions:
[1] Using the knife jig, do you press the blade firmly on the stone, or just lightly rest it against it?
[2] How many passes (back and forth) do you generally make until you feel a burr?
[3] Do you make several passes on one side, then flip the blade, or alternate every pass until a burr forms?
[4] I tend to keep the stone at the higher grit.  Should I be using the coarser grit?
[5] Is there such a thing as a general sense of how many passes (per side) it generally takes to sharpening kitchen knives? Five? Twenty five? I've honestly gone way past that sometimes in my frustration.  Feel like I'm flying blind....

Thanks for any info.

Dear Fellow sharpener,

I'm new to the Tormek community but not that much to the sharpeners one.

You ask very clear and meaningful questions. Here are my (poor - lame - personal) answers.

To me there is no clear cut rule about when or what to do with a knife, when sharpening.

Most of the times, I myself sharpen, as you mentioned, kitchen knives. And I sharpen on one side until I feel a burr on the opposite site. BTW about this don't forget to look at what one of our mates here on the Tormek forum published about detecting the but on a bread knife with a cotton bud.

Then comes the question of what steel you sharpen. I usually sharpen German high end steel knives. Which is great and easy to do on the standard Tormek stone. After that, some friends come and ask me if I could sharpen there knives... Well, guys...  The knives are most of the times in a terrible condition and basically made of poor quality steel.

In those conditions, I sometimes cannot feel a burr rising.

About the grit : I mostly use my stone on the lower grit and then take the blade to a wheel that is not endorsed by Tormek... ;-)

How many passes on each side : IMOO just try to  balance the passes.  I have not read any clear opinion about that. I ten to do as follows : very dull knife (my friend's ones - not mine) 10 to 20 soft passes per side, checking for the burr to rise every five passes.Once the burr rises, two passes on one side, then two on the other, then one on each side, very softly. And then the next part of the show on my other machines...

Have fun ! And above all, keep aking and learning.

Regards,

Hello everybody,

Just a short message to ask :  any news about this ?

Rgds.

Ken,
I couldn't agree more.
Perfection - in my own opinion - doesn't exist anyway.
Try to reach it, and there always will be some 'helpful' user to tell you you didn't quite reach it.
So, never mind.
Sharpen your knives at your best level and try improving everyday. Keep learning.
My level, about 30 years ago, was a real shame, considering the (even limited) improvement I made since then.
My bevels are not always even on all the length of the blade, and especially at the tip, OK.
But : I now sharpen knives for professional cooks (including high French cuisine) and they are really happy with the sharpness I deliver them.

And that's one more reason to thank you and all the forum contributors !

Rgds. 

Jan,

"Tormekian Belly", I like that. It may become the subject of doctoral theses.   

MR HD, and all other new users,

Tormekian life was less complicated when I purchased my first Tormek ten years ago. In those simpler days, we were content with just getting our edges very sharp. We had not discovered (on forum posts) that one bevel might be somewhat larger due to blade thickness. We did not feel compelled to work in tenths of a degree or obtain sub fifty BESS readings. We had one grinding wheel, the venerable SG.

Please do not misunderstand me. I am totally in favorable of the advances made by this forum. I just hate to see new users hung up on perfection. My advice for new users is to become fluent with the basic Tormek method. Use the standard SG grinding wheel. Learn how to be skilled with the truing tool and the stone grader. Become polished with using the leather honing wheel and Tormek PA-70 honing compound. You can go far using this basic technique.

Once you have thoroughly mastered this, you can choose whether to continue working this way or gradually add other technology. Give yourself the chance to become good before lusting after being better.

Ken

My 2 cents : could it be a problem with the steel quality ? I mean are you pretty sure the steel isn't the cause of the trouble ? Just asking.

My 2 cents : could it be a problem with the steel quality, I mean are you pretty sure the steel isn't the ca

Good job !
I did restore a bread knife using an "affordable"  round file from a well known Chinese website  (ask me for the link if you need). Took me a few minutes to get the scalloped side nice and clean. I then used a 2500 sanding paper for the flat side, nice and gently.

And I forgot to mention : I already tested it and it works just fine !

The sharpness I could reach using it is much better than what I could do free hand, no doubt about it.

Thanks again to all of you for this wonderful idea.

I finally took some time to complete the job.

Here are some pictures of how I did build my own version of the FVB.

Thanks to all of you for bringing in the ideas and pictures that inspired me !

I don't have much time these days to work on this project (have to go to work to earn our food  )

Still, what I did this evening was to grind (grit 80) the soldered nuts that became heads of the "bolts"

To be followed...

Hi to all community members,
I am currently designing and working on my own home-made FVB, based on all the wise advice I got (so far) from the community.
(Sorry, Wootz, would have loved to buy from you, but all in all, considering i'm living in the EU, the bottom line figure was...well...)
Here is a picture of my "raw material" : 1 Tormek XB100, some hardwood, and 2 threaded rods with the nuts that go with them. (sorry the rods are already soldered to the nuts, I forgot to take a picture before they were).
I'm planning to drill 12mm holes in one slice of the hardwood, then place the rods inside and carve some place for the bolts in another slice of hardwood, both pieces of hardwood being exactly the size of XB100.
Then glue/bolt both pieces and attach XB100.
I will update you when progressing.
Cheers.

I couldn't agree more, Ken.

Wootz seems to me a as a very generous person, willing to share his knowledge for everyone to enjoy and improve.

I am really thankful, as the design I'm working on is (mainly) inspired by what he did.

Thanks Wootz !

I purchased a FVB from Wootz. The price is a combination of good design, quality machining, and shipping. (In my case, from Australia to the US.) The price is substantial, but so is the product. The FVB will give you trooper service as long as your Tormek. The price also reflects low volume. The VFB is not mass produced.

When considering the price, be sure to convert it into your local currency. A strong US dollar lessened the blow for me.

Wootz has been very generous in sharing information about making your own VFB. His research has benefitted the whole sharpening community, from those who strive for the perfect edge to those who just want their farmers market sharpening to be a cut above. (Nothing negative implied.)

Thanks, Wootz.

Ken

Dear Braincramp,

Don't be sorry or worry. Please take my word for it.

And please read the following :
Once upon a time, I was 20 y.o. (that was over 30 years ago ) and I then pretended I could sharpen kitchen knives.
I bought a low-end sharpening machine and did "sharpen"...
The results were, to say the least, pretty poor.
And I went on, searching & learning.
A few years ago, I went back to the knife I had tried my sharpening "skills" on years from now.
And, believe me or not, I fully restored it, even better than it originally was.
This included a full blade polishing (sanding paper from 120 up to 2500 followed by polishing wheel with green compound and ended up with flannel wheel plus blue compound).
Mirror finish guaranteed.
Followed by hair popping sharpening.
To end the story : this is the knife (my knife) I will present to my son when he leaves home and settles in his on place.

So, don't be afraid. A knife is seldom totally ruined.

Rgds.

Thank you john,

Its probably bestif I upload a photo to show what I mean. The knives are sharp enough for most purposes. Its just that the edge isnt pretty. Just a lack of practice. Once I get the hang of the motion it should get better. Luckily for my favorite pocket knife it looked quite nice. I know my priorities. 

Let me post a photo once I am home and I'll be happy to get some advice.

Hi to all community members,
I am currently designing and working on my own home-made FVB, based on all the wise advice I got (so far) from the community.
(Sorry, Wootz, would have loved to buy from you, but all in all, considering i'm living in the EU, the bottom line figure was...well...)
Here is a picture of my "raw material" : 1 Tormek XB100, some hardwood, and 2 threaded rods with the nuts that go with them. (sorry the rods are already soldered to the nuts, I forgot to take a picture before they were).
I'm planning to drill 12mm holes in one slice of the hardwood, then place the rods inside and carve some place for the bolts in another slice of hardwood, both pieces of hardwood being exactly the size of XB100.
Then glue/bolt both pieces and attach XB100.
I will update you when progressing.
Cheers.

[Erivan]

Dear Wootz,
I read so much of you...

You're kind of a "Lucifer" to me. And please take some time to read that "Lucifer" is no evil at all, but "The lightbringer".

Just as you are.

Rgds


quote author=wootz link=topic=3980.msg27296#msg27296 date=1559556480]
Erivan, I've seen Tormek leather wheels that are too rough to be usable. This does not happen often, might be just your bad luck to get such a wheel. Well, my luck as well, as of 3 Tormeks in our workshop one came with the rough leather wheel.
It is easy to fix by sanding with #400 sandpaper on a wooden block.
Having finished sanding, wipe the wheel with a rag wet with WD-40 or any light oil to remove the sanding abrasive particles off the leather.
[/quote]

Dusmif,

I'm glad you liked it, but don't be afraid to ask if I can do more

Being a Newbie, I can only learn.

I (nearly daily) use Cr2O3 based compound.

Let me know if and how I can help.

Rgds

Thank you Erivan.
Somebody told me autosol is great, I use it to clean brass, I give it a try.
Alf