Help please

[MR. HD]

So my t4 came in yesterday i have been playing. So her eis my questions . I have a uneven bevel . Most of the uneven bevel is towards the tip. On a good note my t4 is alot faster then my KME. Hope this makes sense. thanks guys

[jeffs55]

When sharpening a knife, there will be a wider bevel towards the tip as well as a bevel that is wider on one side of the blade than the other. It is just the way the Tormek works. This exists on all blades but is only noticeable on the thicker blades. Thick means thickness of the blade not depth from spine to edge. There is a user "Wootz" that has developed an attachment to the knife jig that will eliminate this.
http://knifegrinders.com.au/11Shop_PC.htm
It is pretty pricey in my opinion but nevertheless, I am considering buying one. Now, I assumed you were talking about a knife blade as you mentioned "tip".

[John_B]

Have you watched the video by Jeff Farris where he shows lifting the end of the knife as you sharpen the curved portion? For most knives this does a good job if you practice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYURcwkKGPs

[Jan]

In the following thread I have described a template which allows correct knife mounting in the knife jig. https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=2654.msg14139#msg14139
It works well for knives with so called Tormekian belly.

Jan

[Ken S]

Jan,

"Tormekian Belly", I like that. It may become the subject of doctoral theses.   

MR HD, and all other new users,

Tormekian life was less complicated when I purchased my first Tormek ten years ago. In those simpler days, we were content with just getting our edges very sharp. We had not discovered (on forum posts) that one bevel might be somewhat larger due to blade thickness. We did not feel compelled to work in tenths of a degree or obtain sub fifty BESS readings. We had one grinding wheel, the venerable SG.

Please do not misunderstand me. I am totally in favorable of the advances made by this forum. I just hate to see new users hung up on perfection. My advice for new users is to become fluent with the basic Tormek method. Use the standard SG grinding wheel. Learn how to be skilled with the truing tool and the stone grader. Become polished with using the leather honing wheel and Tormek PA-70 honing compound. You can go far using this basic technique.

Once you have thoroughly mastered this, you can choose whether to continue working this way or gradually add other technology. Give yourself the chance to become good before lusting after being better.

Ken

[RickKrung]

...snip...
We had not discovered (on forum posts) that one bevel might be somewhat larger due to blade thickness. ...snip...

I would like to offer a clarification, or perhaps an amplification.  I believe the unevenness of bevels on opposing sides of a blade are due to the configuration of the knife jigs, rather than just due to blade thickness.  The jigs are designed in such a way that only a very "narrow" range of blade thicknesses will receive close to uniform bevel widths.  Blades thicker AND narrower than this "range" will have the uneven bevels.  Regardless, whatever the reason, it is still quite real and annoying. 

I just hate to see new users hung up on perfection.

I wonder if the OP's question was motivated by attempts at perfection or perhaps more of a beginner's question about why the bevel width was wider at the tip than through the straighter body of the blade.  I think it is entirely valid and important for beginners to understand "why" that difference occurs and what to do about it.  Hence, the whole discussion of "lifting" and the follow-on about pivoting and the melding of those two techniques to achieve more uniform bevels over the length of their blades. 

I sure as heck did not understand any of this when I first started.  I butchered a number of knives before I understood it and it was quite a while after starting that it became evident to me.  I think the need for lifting is inadequately explained in the Tormek documentation and in their videos. 

Likewise, I think sending a beginner off in pursuit of the Pin Pivot Collar, too early, is not necessarily so helpful, particularly if they have not yet come to the understanding of the need for lifting. 

My advice for new users is to become fluent with the basic Tormek method. Use the standard SG grinding wheel. Learn how to be skilled with the truing tool and the stone grader. Become polished with using the leather honing wheel and Tormek PA-70 honing compound. You can go far using this basic technique.

Once you have thoroughly mastered this, you can choose whether to continue working this way or gradually add other technology. Give yourself the chance to become good before lusting after being better.

Ken

I agree with Ken about starting out learning the "standard" methods before becoming distracted by some of the improvements and advancements developed by forum members.  But, the regularity with which newbies struggle with the uneven bevels along the length of blades is a good example of how some aspects of what we more experienced users consider standard but that are not adequately explained as part of the standard procedures. 

Rick

[RickKrung]

...snip...
There is a user "Wootz" that has developed an attachment to the knife jig that will eliminate this.
http://knifegrinders.com.au/11Shop_PC.htm
It is pretty pricey in my opinion but nevertheless, I am considering buying one. Now, I assumed you were talking about a knife blade as you mentioned "tip".

To be fair to all users, especially those who actually contributed to the development of the "Pin Pivot Collar" (the jig referenced above), Wootz has made some hugely significant developments and contributions to knife sharpening using the Tormek, however, while he has had manufactured and sells the PPC (by permission), he had very little to do with its development.  His contribution most definitely was planting the seed of thought and need.  See below.

This thread is a good "jump into it" point.  It contains links to the all important discussion of lifting versus pivoting and to key phases in the development of the PPC, which started with member Kavik, passed through cbxw35, took a brief rest with me and the latest contribution by GKC. 

I think the discussion of lifting versus pivoting is a must read for all Tormek knife sharpeners, so the URL to it is repeated here.  Embedded within this thread is much of the development history on the PPC.

I produced the first twenty or so PPCs, of which Wootz was the first purchaser. After my stock was exhausted, Wootz requested permission for have a larger production run made, of which he has since sold out and is having another run made.

As great as the PPC is, I think Gord's simplification of it in the form of a triangular crosssection is brilliant.   

Rick

[jeffs55]

I hate having to buy a square piece of aluminum but it will be far cheaper to try that idea than to buy the pivot collar. Congrats Rick on being the inventor and I wish I had known that.

[RickKrung]

I hate having to buy a square piece of aluminum but it will be far cheaper to try that idea than to buy the pivot collar. Congrats Rick on being the inventor and I wish I had known that.

Thanks, but I cannot take the credit, at least not all the credit.  Two others, Kavik and cbwx35 preceeded me in getting it to the point where I put the pins on it. 

Good luck with making the simpler version.  Please let us know how it goes.

Rick

[Erivan]

Ken,
I couldn't agree more.
Perfection - in my own opinion - doesn't exist anyway.
Try to reach it, and there always will be some 'helpful' user to tell you you didn't quite reach it.
So, never mind.
Sharpen your knives at your best level and try improving everyday. Keep learning.
My level, about 30 years ago, was a real shame, considering the (even limited) improvement I made since then.
My bevels are not always even on all the length of the blade, and especially at the tip, OK.
But : I now sharpen knives for professional cooks (including high French cuisine) and they are really happy with the sharpness I deliver them.

And that's one more reason to thank you and all the forum contributors !

Rgds. 

Jan,

"Tormekian Belly", I like that. It may become the subject of doctoral theses.   

MR HD, and all other new users,

Tormekian life was less complicated when I purchased my first Tormek ten years ago. In those simpler days, we were content with just getting our edges very sharp. We had not discovered (on forum posts) that one bevel might be somewhat larger due to blade thickness. We did not feel compelled to work in tenths of a degree or obtain sub fifty BESS readings. We had one grinding wheel, the venerable SG.

Please do not misunderstand me. I am totally in favorable of the advances made by this forum. I just hate to see new users hung up on perfection. My advice for new users is to become fluent with the basic Tormek method. Use the standard SG grinding wheel. Learn how to be skilled with the truing tool and the stone grader. Become polished with using the leather honing wheel and Tormek PA-70 honing compound. You can go far using this basic technique.

Once you have thoroughly mastered this, you can choose whether to continue working this way or gradually add other technology. Give yourself the chance to become good before lusting after being better.

Ken