Honing trouble

[Brad Moser]

I bought a Tormek Supergrind 2000 back in 2000 or 2001 at a Woodworking show in Tulsa Ok.  I use it mostly to sharpen lathe tools, planer/shaper knives, chisels and knives.  In the last year or so, I have noticed that i have a harder time honing the edges to a mirror shine. It just seems like I can't that ultimate edge that I used to get. While trying to figure out what I was doing wrong or different, I would try different amounts of pressure, more honing compound, less honing compound etc.  When using firm pressure, I thought maybe I was ruining the edge by rounding it over.  When using more gentle pressure, I can't get rid of the grinding marks.  The honing wheel is in good shape/not dried out. 

I try to maintain the grinding angle while honing but the edges seem sharper after grinding but before honing.

Does anyone have any ideas on what I may be doing wrong or different than was doing before?  I have considered getting a finer grit stone since I cant seem to hone anymore. 

[jeffs55]

Sounds to me like the edge is too rough for the honing wheel. Is the stone graded to the finer grit? Is the honing wheel a little damp so as to hold the abrasive on it? I am a rookie so I cant be much help. However, I do have a 8000 grit Jap waterstone and am very happy with it. It is a polishing devoce just like the leather honing wheel. You know that it is for the final edge. You could never sharpen from dull with it.

[Jeff Farris]

Brad,

Like jeff55 my first reaction is that you are skipping the intermediate step of using the stone grader on the grindstone.  The honing wheel cannot remove the scratches of the 220 grit.  You need to refine the grind with the grind stone graded, then go to the honing wheel.

If the tool is sharper before honing than it is after, you're rounding over the edge by working at too abrupt an angle.

[boehme]

My first guess was going to be that you might be rounding over the edge on the leather honing wheel.  Now, I lean more towards thinking that you may not have used the smooth side of the stone grader or perhaps the grinding wheel is dished out so that when you grade it, only part of it is being graded to the fine grit -- when the stone grader gets old and nearly worn out, it will be badly rounded over and not easily make contact with the entire wheel when you are trying to grade it smooth -- and, if the grinding wheel is dished out in the center from sharpening all of your bowl gouges, the problem of grading it becomes even worse.  The bevel of the tool should be essentially polished when it comes off the grinding wheel after using the stone grader to give it a fine grit finish.  Another possibility is that you may be using too much pressure when doing the final bit of sharpening and causing deep scratch marks in the bevel.  When I first started using my Tormek about seven  years ago (it sounds like we bought ours around the same time), I thought that it was smart to polish the bevel until it would shine like a mirror.  I learned from Jeff Ferris at a later WW show that I was honing way too much.  While a mirror finish looks cool, it is not a good idea.  The object of honing is NOT to shine up the bevel, but to refine the cutting edge of the bevel.  That essentially means removing the wire edge and not much more than that.  Although I miss being able to see my reflection in the bevel, I now realize that I was being rather anal about the whole thing and that the honing process should only take a few seconds -- maybe 15 seconds -- 20 seconds max.  Anything beyond that is just going to cause your tool's nice sharp edge to go downhill.

[boehme]

One other thought is to use a black marking pen on the bevel before honing so that you can check that you are honing at the correct angle.  Setting the angle on the honing wheel works the same way as it does with the grinding stone.  You should be getting full bevel contact.

[Brad Moser]

Thanks all for the ideas and suggestions.  I'm certain that I have re-graded the stone to the finer grit but I will definitely re-grade it to be certain.  I don't have any edges to reshape anymore (thanks to my Tormek) so I typically only use the finer grade while sharpening.  I will also be more mindfull of the pressure I use on my final pass of grinding to make sure I am not bearing down extra hard.
I may be getting caught up to much in the idea of polishing the cutting edge of my tools and knives so I will make a quick pass on the honing wheel to take care of the wire edge and leave it at that.  I'll update you all on the results.

Thanks,
Brad

[Brad Moser]

Hello all.  After reading the suggestions a couple of days ago and while waiting to have a chance to try them, I was reading some of the archived topics on the forum and saw where it is recommended to grade the stone to the finer grit for as much as 40-45 seconds. I knew I was not doing it that long, I had gotten into the habit of using the stone grader until I heard a change in pitch of the grader on the stone, maybe 5-8 seconds so I knew you guys were onto something. I had a chance to try it tonight and I graded my stone to the finer grit for a good 45 seconds. It worked! You guys had it pegged.  Thanks for the help.

I just ran across this forum a few days ago and appreciate this valuable resource. I may not post often since there are so many folks on here more knowledgable than I but I will be a regular visitor to take advantage of the information passed on here. 

Thanks again for the help.

Brad

[Elden]

Jeff tells us of the necessity of being persistent with the fine side of the stone grader. This old thread covered that very well.

I cannot exert as much down pressure on the grader as most, so I have to use a longer grading time.

[Herman Trivilino]

And Jeff's most recent tip about having the fine side of the stone grader concave from wear was a big help to me.  I was afraid I had ruined mine because of the concave shape and I always used in such a way as to try to not make the concavity any worse.

Now I push that concave surface against the grindstone with confidence and it smooths it out nicely.

[Elden]

As well using the edge of the grader.

[Herman Trivilino]

As well using the edge of the grader.

For getting the grindstone back to the rough grit, yes.  See my post in this thread:

http://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=1542.0