How to achieve less than 100 bess?

[John Hancock Sr]

I did have a video on the event before my original channel was taken down.

That has to be annoying. Why was it taken down. I thought you had gone dark and only just recently found you again.

Really interesting. I have to admit that when I started I was more than a little influenced by your techniques.

[Brock O Lee]

Here's how I do it and my thoughts.

Thanks for the detailed explanation. 👍

I am curious, in your case as someone who sharpens at scale, what are you thoughts on diamond or CBN wheels? Do you get better or more consistent results on those? Do you prefer to use the SG instead?

[John_B]

You should also be aware that the BESS score can be influenced by testing technique. I never bothered to get one of the machines but instead used Vadim's equivalency testing methods to see where my edge is.

We also need to be aware that chasing extremely sharp edges is only part of the battle. At some point you need to actually use the knife in real world situations. What I found is that maintaining a useable edge is key to long term satisfaction. I keep thermal receipts handy to test my knives to see if they need some work. This is equivalent to about 300 BESS which is where many knives are new out of the box. The people I sharpen for are happy. I do have a spare leather wheel that has only been used with 1µ diamond spray. This yields an exceptionally sharp edge.

[DT]

This is the way I get below 100 BESS and I do it consistently.  I have the T4.  I only use the stock wheel.  Only graded to 250 grit using a diamond plate after leveling the wheel. I set the angle to 15°.

I sharpen one side until I detect a burr.  Then sharpen the other side until I detect a burr.

Then alternate until I cannot feel a burr.  Then I hone by hand five passes on each side.  Then test.  If I'm not below 100, I repeat the honing. I usually settle for around 85 BESS. 

I buy cheap knives to sharpen and give away.  I buy a set of 4 knives off Amazon for less than $9.  My favorite knife is Craftkitchen from Walmart for less than $6.

[DT]

I alternate the honing passes too.

[cbwx34]

This is the way I get below 100 BESS and I do it consistently.  I have the T4.  I only use the stock wheel.  Only graded to 250 grit using a diamond plate after leveling the wheel. I set the angle to 15°.
I sharpen one side until I detect a burr.  Then sharpen the other side until I detect a burr.
Then alternate until I cannot feel a burr.  Then I hone by hand five passes on each side.  Then test.  If I'm not below 100, I repeat the honing. I usually settle for around 85 BESS. 
...

I alternate the honing passes too.

I think you're spot on... it's often overlooked that it's not what a person uses, it's how you use it.

[DT]

You are probably being facetious. My method defiled logic, but I was serious.

Here are the BESS scores for the last three CraftKitchen knives I have sharpened. It takes about 3 passes on the first side to raise a burr. I use very light pressure. 

New 220
Sharpened 160
Honed 1st 105
Honed 2nd 115
Honed 3rd 85

New 160
Sharpened 120
Honed 85

New 310
Sharpened 145
Honed 75

3D your method seems similar to mine.  Go to Walmart.  Buy a CraftKitchen knife for $6.  Only use the rough grit.  Only use very light pressure sharpening and honing.  Use 15 degrees per side.  Please let me know what your BESS scores were New, Sharpened and Honed. 

Thanks.

[DT]

Honing by hand is a crap shoot for me so I bought the 123.  Keep in mind that I have the T4.  The 123 works good with the sharpening wheel but not the honing wheel. The threaded rod gets in the way when using regular size paring knives. The 123 worked on the honing wheel when I tried a 2 inch wide chef knife.

The bigger machines are wider and the threaded rod doesn't present this problem for them.

[RickKrung]

...snip... The threaded rod gets in the way when using regular size paring knives. ...snip...

Was that with or without the MB-102 or an FVB?  I've heard of that without these, but I thought using either solved that conflict. 

[DT]

I was using the MB-102.

[DT]

I've thought about buying an 8 leather wheel and using it on the grinding side. The problem is ... I can't find one with a 12mm hole.  A 1/2 inch hole is not much difference.  That would probably work.  Or a few wraps of tape might work if needed. 

I cut up some 1/2 pvc to use when the wheel is removed and it's not much different from the 12mm piece that came with the machine.

If I had it to do over with I would buy the T8.

Pay me now or pay me later.

[cbwx34]

You are probably being facetious. My method defiled logic, but I was serious.
...

If you're referring to my post... not at all.  I think your process is great (why I said "spot on").  Too often I read posts where users go thru numerous steps trying to get a knife sharp or reach a certain BESS score.  How you sharpen is similar to what I do.

...
The 123 works good with the sharpening wheel but not the honing wheel. The threaded rod gets in the way when using regular size paring knives. The 123 worked on the honing wheel when I tried a 2 inch wide chef knife.
...

Can you post a pic?  The only interference I see is with a very short "Protrusion" distance (which I'm guessing what a paring knife emulates) and low angle (around 9 deg.), the KS-123 can hit one of the locking knobs. I'm not seeing where it would hit one of the rods.

[DT]

I have pictures that I can post if someone can tell me how to post using an iPad.

The problem occurs when the 123 is mounted on the bar and is close enough to the honing wheel for the 3 legs to be able to touch the top of the wheel.  In this position, the threaded rod will not let the 3 legs touch the top of the wheel as you adjust the angle.   However, this is not a problem if the knife is wide enough and its not a problem when using the grinding wheel.

Buy a CraftKitchen knife.  Grade your wheel to course and dont change the grit. Post your new, sharpened and honed results.  I'm curious how my method works for others.

[cbwx34]

I have pictures that I can post if someone can tell me how to post using an iPad.

The problem occurs when the 123 is mounted on the bar and is close enough to the honing wheel for the 3 legs to be able to touch the top of the wheel.  In this position, the threaded rod will not let the 3 legs touch the top of the wheel as you adjust the angle.  However, this is not a problem if the knife is wide enough and its not a problem when using the grinding wheel.

Buy a CraftKitchen knife.  Grade your wheel to course and dont change the grit. Post your new, sharpened and honed results.  I'm curious how my method works for others.

Never mind, I figured out what you were seeing. (I was using a different FVB before not the MB-102).  You're right, with the MB-102 it does hit the threaded rod.  I can squeeze it in (barely), but I didn't check to see if that would affect the accuracy.  I'm thinking a 2nd washer might move the honing wheel out enough to provide the clearance needed?  Might give that a try... doesn't look like it would take much.

[DT]

Moving the wheel is a great idea.  I will take a quick look now and if it looks feasible, I will try it tomorrow.  I think I have everything I need.