Is the SB-250 black stone a good choice for all-purpose ?

[niquedouille]

Hello to the Tormek community, I'm new here, but I know a bit about sharpening. I have studied cabinet making and worked as a joiner for about 15 years.
I am now building my workshop at home and recently decided to swap my Leman AFF 251 sharpening machine for a Tormek T8. I need to sharpen my 500 mm blade from my big planing machine, and the Tormek device doesn't fit on the Leman (I used to use Tormek devices on the Leman).

I have a choice to make about the stone : SG-250 or SB-250 with a little extra (+65€).

On the Leman, I was a bit frustrated everytime I had a chisel or knife or whatever tool I needed to sharpen, that had a little dent or need a bit more work. The water stone is a slow process in that case and I missed my old grinder that could do the job in 30 seconds..

It seems the SB-250 black stone should be better at this. I'm using a lot of old pieces of wood, and my tools often meets an hidden nail. Even though most of my sharpening work is on good condition tools, it's a pain in the ass to spend 20 minutes on one chisel to get a straight edge when it could take 30 sec on a dry grinder.
I will also sharpen my planing machine blades (500 mm long), which I believe are in HSS, and also my drill bits.

These reasons push me towards the black stone.. but am I mistaken ? Will it gives my chisels, knives, scissors and planer blades a very sharp finish as the SG-250 would ?

I'd like to have only one stone. At least for the next few years, as I'm already investing a lot in machinery.

Thank you all for reading and your futur advice, and excuse me for my english, I'm french.
Jean-Baptiste

[Ken S]

Welcome to the forum, Jean-Baptiste.

I refer you to this video by our late friend and member, Vadim Kriachuk of Knife Grinders. The first part discusses using the SB-250 with the composite honing wheel.This combination seems very workable to me.

https://youtu.be/tVTg0HVgoKo?si=HWO35dz5ax4ABqBj

My honest, complete answer is that you will probably eventually want both grinding wheels and both honing wheels. The SB/composite combination will give you superior results with HSS,harder alloys, and heavy grinding. It will perform adequately with finer grinding. The SG/leather honing wheel combination will perform adequately with harder steels and heavy gringing, but will render superior results with finer grinding.

The traditional sound advice is to start with the SG and leather honing wheel. in general, I agree with this advice.In your case, I would start with the SB and composite wheel, with the intention of adding the SG and leather honing wheel as soon as possible.

Keep us posted.

Ken

[RichColvin]

Jean-Baptiste,

If you are sharpening a lot of HSS tools like used in woodturning, then the SB-250 is definitely needed.   If the majority of your tools are not HSS or other similarly hard metals, then the SG-250 is a better choice.  I found that re-grading the SB grindstone is more difficult than re-grading the SG grindstone.

Rich

[niquedouille]

https://youtu.be/tVTg0HVgoKo?si=HWO35dz5ax4ABqBj

In your case, I would start with the SB and composite wheel, with the intention of adding the SG and leather honing wheel as soon as possible.

Well, it seems like a "yes and no" answer 
The guy in the video says the SB-250 cannot be regraded with the sp-650.. Rich Colvin says it's more difficult than with the SG-250.. that's annoying. Impossible or difficult to do seems like a no go to the SB-250 which would then have an exclusive use for hss tools.

If you think I'd need the SG-250 later, then it seems that the sb-250 could be an all-purpose stone.. and though, why not start with the SG-250 and buy the DF-250 600 diamond stone later for the HSS tools ? Regarding what you, Rich Colvin, and the guy in the video say, I don't see the advantage of the SB-250 benefits towards the DF-250.

[John Hancock Sr]

why not start with the SG-250 and buy the DF-250 600 diamond stone later for the HSS tools

I am in pretty much the same situation as you. I found the SG-250 would glaze with the HSS planer blades and was taking upwards of an hour or so. I ended up with all three diamond wheels but that is somewhat of a luxury. The DF-250 is perfectly fine for drills, if somewhat slowish on chipped planer blades and large drill bits. The SG-250 is more than adequate on plane irons and chisels.

[tgbto]

It will also depend on how you get ahold of the T-8 in the first place. The standard T-8 comes with the SG, the T-8 Custom is basically barebones.

If you got yourself a bargain on a used T-8 with no stone, then it will get down to what kind of finish you want. A trued SB will take quite some time to get nice and even, and will never give you the fine-graded-SG finish. SB on knives will have a much different feedback than the SG, I personally don't like it. Also the SB is not meant to be faster than the SG on standard steel (see this wheel comparison page, and whatever video went in depth over wheel selection)

Now if you're eyeing a T-8 custom with either stone, I think you should look at the overall price of the T-8 Custom plus stone, plus jigs, plus truing tool, plus honing wheel, plus honing compound (if non-composite honing wheel), ... And you might solve your dilemma by going with standard T-8 with SB/DF stone.

[niquedouille]

Now if you're eyeing a T-8 custom with either stone, I think you should look at the overall price of the T-8 Custom plus stone, plus jigs, plus truing tool, plus honing wheel, plus honing compound (if non-composite honing wheel), ... And you might solve your dilemma by going with standard T-8 with SB/DF stone.

No, I'm looking at a package of the T8+SB-250 (and accessories) versus T8+SG-250.
T8+SB is 764e
T8+SG is 757e but packed with htk-806 is 902€, so it's a better deal as I like this htk kit.

Then I'll go for the SG and get an other appropriate stone later on for HSS, drill bit and planing blades.

[Dan]

Bonjour Niquedouille,
il y a des bons prix chez Marcin, livraison en France compris.
ici par exemple, le modèle T8 à moins de 700 euros
https://coutelleriemarcin.com/fr/tormek/1428-tormek-t-8-t8-meule-d-affutage-a-eau-220v-manuel-carnet-en-francais--1379540009286.html
Je n'ai pas des liens avec eu mais il semble qu'ils sont une boite fiable.
Perso, j'ai acheté mon T8 (qui était en promo) sur le site de Dieter Schmidt en Allemagne.
Je suis largement très content de mon achat.
J'utilise la pierre standard SG-250 avec les très bons résultats sur mes ciseaux, lames de rabots et couteaux de cuisine. Je le trouve assez rapide pour les ciseaux.
Si je veux redresser les parties endommagées, c'est vite fait, doucement (avec un trompe fréquent dans un peu d'eau pour éviter de le surchauffer) sur un petit touret à mouler pas cher puis je passe à la Tormek pour une bonne finition.

C'est vrai que la Tormek n'est pas l'outil pour enlever la matière rapidement.

Je ne peux pas faire commentaire sur les lames longues de raboteuse mais s'il s'agit d'un acier très dur, un meule diamante peut être plus utile...à ajouter plus tard??

Cordialement,

Danny

[Ken S]

Danny,

I am interested in your reply; however, I can not get the trnslate program to work properly. Would you please include an English translation.

thank you.

Ken

[Dutchman]

My translation:
Hello Niquedouille,
Prices are good at Marcin, delivery to France included.
Here for example, the T8 model for less than 700 euros
https://coutelleriemarcin.com/fr/tormek/1428-tormek-t-8-t8-meule-d-affutage-a-eau-220v-manuel-carnet-en-francais--1379540009286.html
I don't have any relations with them but it seems that they are a reliable company.
Personally, I bought my T8 (which was a special offer) on Dieter Schmidt's website in Germany.
I am very happy with my purchase.
I use the standard SG-250 stone with very good results on my chisels, planer blades and kitchen knives. I find it quite quick for scissors.
If I want to straighten the damaged parts, it's done quickly, gently (with a frequent dip in a little water to avoid overheating it) on a small, inexpensive bench grinder then I use the Tormek for a good finish .
It's true that the Tormek is not the tool for removing material quickly.
I can't comment on long planer blades but if it's a very hard steel, a diamond wheel may be more useful...to be added later??
Sincerely,
Danny

[Dan]

Yes Dutchman, more or less exact
Just a little correction or two:
Hello Niquedouille,
Prices are good at Marcin, delivery to France included.
Here for example, the T8 model for less than 700 euros
https://coutelleriemarcin.com/fr/tormek/1428-tormek-t-8-t8-meule-d-affutage-a-eau-220v-manuel-carnet-en-francais--1379540009286.html
I don't have any relations with them but it seems that they are a reliable company.
Personally, I bought my T8 (which was a special offer) on Dieter Schmidt's website in Germany.
I am very happy with my purchase.
I use the standard SG-250 stone with very good results on my chisels, planer blades and kitchen knives. I find it quite quick for chisels.
If I want to repair damaged parts, it's done quickly, carefully (with frequent dipping in a little water to avoid overheating it) on a small, inexpensive bench grinder then I use the Tormek for a good finish .
It's true that the Tormek is not the tool for removing material quickly.
I can't comment on long planer blades but if it's a very hard steel, a diamond wheel may be more useful...to be added later??
Sincerely,
Danny
  

[niquedouille]

Hello Dan,
Yes I've seen the price on this website but pecked with the htk 806 it's more expensive than dictum, and I like this kit.

Custom T8 seemed like a good thing but it ends up a lot more expensive with less accessories.

I will, indeed, get the Tormek mount to use the Tormek devices on my grinder. But my grinder has a very aggressive stone and I'll probably have to change it as well. Also get a diamond done later on for the planing blades as I think the grinder would deform the blade too quickly.

[Dutchman]

...
Just a little correction or two:
...

Quite an improvement

[Ken S]

I do not mean to sound like an English only person. As I know no French, the deficiency is mine. I did try unsuccessfully to use our forum's translate program. Again, I suspect the problem was my lack of knowledge.

For better or worse, this forum is primarily English language oriented. That is not a comment about any language, it is just the language most of us happen to speak.

.Ken

[niquedouille]

T8 with sg250 is on its way..  
I'll add a DF 250 later on! Thanks all for advices.