Honing knives on T8 Black

[jimwillsher]

Hi all

This probably sounds lame. I have a T-8 Black, my first ever Tormek, and I am struggling to get knives really sharp.

I am sharpening to 15 degrees, and that seems okay. But when I use the composite wheel I must be doing it wrong.

Basic questions. Should I use the tool jig or hold freehand? And should I have the knife flat on the wheel to remove the burr or should I try to also place it at 15 degrees, which is really hard when handholding.

Many thanks


Jim

[aquataur]

Hi Jim,

since nobody is replying...
look at the site of (sadly defunct) forum Member Wootz: http://www.knifegrinders.com.au/

I had those very questions answered by reading his deburring booklet (pdf or whatever).
This costs a few bucks but is reasonable. He has a video there that may already answer your questions.

Another part of the equation is maintaining the correct angles throughout. On the Tormek, this boils down to one single adjustment: the universal bar´s (USB) distance to the grinding wheel. This is most easily calculated by one of the programs that are available for free on this forum.

It lead me to the right steps, and now I have knifes with great sharpness.
Far beyond perfection perhaps, but that is not the objective.

have fun,

-Helmut

[Crabnbass]

You could use the angle master to find the approximate spot where 15 degrees is on your honing wheel. I am hesitant to recommend spending more money on an already expensive sharpening system, but a FVB is an extremely useful tool in taking your honing to the next level.

I would also like to add that it is easy to get discouraged with results in early attempts with the Tormek, I know I did. There is little substitute for patience and practice. With time and effort, you will see things get exponentially better.

[Sir Amwell]

Free handing on a leather honing wheel is more forgiving than the composite wheel.
That said I would recommend honing on either at a precise angle in the jig using a frontal vertical base. Using any calculator to achieve this is relatively simple.
I would then recommend a further honing step on a leather honing wheel or a hanging leather strop to completely remove any residual burr. This should give you the sharpness you are looking for.
As previously suggested, there is a learning curve to Tormek use and I feel the T8 black package might not be the sharpening nirvana it's maybe promoted to be without some leg work. 
Others will surely comment to aid you on your journey. Good luck and don't rush!

[Ken S]

Welcome to the forum, Jim.

It sounds like the grinding part of sharpening is going well for you. I would recommend seriously studying the Tormek online class on basic honing. Here is a link:

https://www.youtube.com/live/40AoJ8UBprI?feature=share

Several other of the classes also include honing. I have watched most of the online classes several times, and continue learning from them.

Do not get discouraged and do keep us posted.

Ken

[jimwillsher]

Wow, thank you very much everyone. I must admit, I do wish I'd gone for the t-8 rather than the t-8 black; I've already bought a conventional stone and found it to be better than the diamond wheel, and that meant I've also had to buy the truing tool. You live and learn.

An FVB is not something g I've looked into so I'll research that. And thank you for clarifying the angle, from the videos it looked like honing was done with the knife flat, but now I know the angle needs to be maintained I'll have another go.

Many thanks for your help everyone.


Jim

[jimwillsher]

The FVB that a couple of replies have mentioned, is there a particular model you recommend I look at? I'm UK-based.

Many thanks.

[cbwx34]

The FVB that a couple of replies have mentioned, is there a particular model you recommend I look at? I'm UK-based.

Many thanks.

Check these:

ColvinTools

SchleifJunkies

(Not sure which would be better based on where you are.)

[aquataur]

Wolfknives (Feines Werkzeug) in Germany. Unbeatable Price.

[tgbto]

+1 for the FVB, especially as the more abrasive CW will be less forgiving freehand as has already been mentioned. Also do you use your CW slightly wet? I find the feedback better, and the result less agressive.

[jimwillsher]

Thanks for the headsup on Wolfknives, I'll have a look. Yes I use the CW slightly wet, and it definitely does have a different feel. My issue is getting the correct angle so hopefully a FVB will help.

[tgbto]

It will most certainly help. Angle consistency notwithstanding, it is easier to hone for extended periods when you just have to manage the sliding, not the lifting. You can also easily go very slowly or very quickly, without altering your honing angle.

As for freehand honing, which I do only when I have to, I find that there's some kind of a sweet spot in between when then blade glides (angle too low) or when it scrapes (angle too high) : the honing wheel barely catches the burr, and so there is a slight increase in drag/pull from the wheel. The feeling changes, as does the sound. I find it harder to find on the composite wheel, as you don't get those tiny black lumps of honing compound that start to rise from the wheel, so the change in feeling/sound is more subtle.

[aquataur]

I did some freehanding in early days according to the method shown by Tormek. You can choose your working position to an extent. My results were inferior.

After studying Wootz´works, I am convinced that you need to be precise with deburring too, because either your angle is too low, or too high (either useless or ruining your edge) or just right. It is too easy to have the wheel catch the blade and then be off the right spot.

That settled, I found that using the USB on the horizontal position for honing does not work in many cases.
The position you need is obstructed by some machine component.

Using a FVB breaks you free from that limit. I knitted my own which works a treat, but in the lights of above offers, it is not really worth. The main cost factor is the XB-100. Note that having a rod with a standard metric screw is not of much use, but again you don´t need it since you use the precise screw on your USB.

[Dan]

...I found that using the USB on the horizontal position for honing does not work in many cases.
The position you need is obstructed by some machine component.

Using a FVB breaks you free from that limit. I knitted my own which works a treat...

Would you mind elaborating on how the FVB allows better access for honing, espescially for longer knives?

I also made a FVB which works perfectly although I still couldn't get enough space for honing knives at precise angles. I find the Grinding wheel is still in the way.

I ended up with another solution which allows me to hone knives. I got a 200mm diameter leather wheel from Shleifjunkies (excellent service, BTW) and mounted it on the slow geared drive of my cheap bench grinder. I then made a new support for the USB so that I can grind on the Tormek and then hone efficiently on this wheel.
I use Calcapp (thanks CBW,finally got my head round using it!) to get the required grinding and honing angles and now I don't do the manual honing method at all.

If anyone is interested, I could post a photo to explain, if it helps.

Danny

[tgbto]

I also made a FVB which works perfectly although I still couldn't get enough space for honing knives at precise angles. I find the Grinding wheel is still in the way.

This is why one should keep the spacer that comes with a Tormek, or buy/build one. A piece of 20mm PVC pipe cut at the proper width (50mm ?) works a charm. This way you can replace the grinding wheel with the spacer when honing long knives.