Chord-Tangent Angle Compensation

[benhung]

Hi,

New to the forum. I made a Chord-Tangent angle compensation sliding-diagram by GeoGebra. Don't know it's useful or not. I post it on forum for someone who is interesting.

Regards.

Benjamin

https://www.geogebra.org/m/abdqd8dj

d : Grindstone diameter.  α : angle.  t : blade thickness

-------------------------
Dutchman's Angle Setup Formula Diagram:
https://www.geogebra.org/m/wwuqbvhh

I add Dutchman's Angle Setup formula here. This is his origin model, also my calculator.  Present his theory only, can not be apply if you can not find out real Projection & Jig rotate radius.

-------------------------
TTS-100 Type - Jig calculator
https://www.geogebra.org/m/csmvmayb


20230505 Update:

This Diagram show how I find projection (k) & radius (f), not difficult.

https://www.geogebra.org/m/haxutcdv

Add USB base adjustment to Angle Setup Diagram.

https://www.geogebra.org/m/wndeq2gn

aslo post it on Dutchman's Link.

-------------------------
20230510 Update:

Tormek SVM-45 Version Calculator

https://www.geogebra.org/m/uk8cpnq7

Projection is Dutchmen's Projection (6mm different).

-------------------------
20230516 Update:

Tormek SE-77 Calculator

https://www.geogebra.org/m/cdc2mfcc

If you don't use chord angle as second bevel, set thickness t as 0.

-------------------------
20230521 Update:

Add parameter input box of "Blade Angle Setup", "SVM-45" and "SE-77" version.  Big thanks to cbwx34 for reviewing, testing & suggestions.

[Dutchman]

It helps if you describe what the use is and how you use it.

[cbwx34]

Hi,

New to the forum. I made a Chord-Tangent angle compensation sliding-diagram by GeoGebra. Don't know it's useful or not. I post it on forum for someone who is interesting.

Regards.

Benjamin

https://www.geogebra.org/m/abdqd8dj

d : Grindstone diameter.  α : angle.  t : blade thickness

It looks like a "calculator" representation of what is described by Jan in this thread?


https://forum.tormek.com/index.php/topic,3244.msg19184.html#msg19184

I too, would be curious how you use it.  (What do you mean by "angle compensation"?)

Pretty cool though!

[benhung]

Hi Ton,

I'm glad I can make conversation with you. I would like to say "Thank you!". Your booklet "More math for the Tormek grinder" help me a lots. I pick up some of you concept, made a motion diagram to help me setup T8.

I post the link bellow to show the amazing jobs you did, and how helpful it is. It also present the beauty of math that's described in your booklet. I try my best to draw the diagram same as your booklet's Figure 10 to show my respect.

I'll remove the link couple of days later. It's your concept, I don't think I have the right to show it in public without your permission.

Benjamin

https://www.geogebra.org/m/wwuqbvhh

I modify the link as English version.

[benhung]

It helps if you describe what the use is and how you use it.

I don't know how to describe, also don't know it useful or not?

By some reason, the angle of my chisel's blade has to be "given-angle + chord-tangent angle". Actually, I can not feel the difference. The difference is tiny, but it always be there. This situation irritates me a lot. You ask how I use it. I don't know. Maybe... the answer is "I use it to fix my stubbornness".

[benhung]

It looks like a "calculator" representation of what is described by Jan in this thread?

Hi,

New to the forum. I made a Chord-Tangent angle compensation sliding-diagram by GeoGebra. Don't know it's useful or not. I post it on forum for someone who is interesting.

Regards.

Benjamin

https://www.geogebra.org/m/abdqd8dj

d : Grindstone diameter.  α : angle.  t : blade thickness

It looks like a "calculator" representation of what is described by Jan in this thread?


https://forum.tormek.com/index.php/topic,3244.msg19184.html#msg19184

I too, would be curious how you use it.  (What do you mean by "angle compensation"?)

Pretty cool though!

Hi cbwx,

Yes, it is just a calculator. It's not too hard to get chord-tangent angle's value, but has to take some massive steps. It's a small tool. If someone feel it useful, pick it up. If not, just let it be there.

Also thank you for your kindness, share your excellent jobs to newbies like me.

Benjamin

[tgbto]

https://www.geogebra.org/m/wgnjeedv

Hello,

It's nice to have it on geogebra, we can play with it and *see* how it varies. However, if red 'k' is the projection distance, shouldn't it also be set back 6mm along [GJ] on the off side of J ? And the typical 'f' distance would also be 6mm as the USB has a 12mm diameter, not radius. It is still usable this way if we make the corrections, so nice job anyway!

[cbwx34]

...
I'll remove the link couple of days later. It's your concept, I don't think I have the right to show it in public without your permission.

Benjamin

https://www.geogebra.org/m/wgnjeedv
...

Well, hopefully you can leave it up, because this is very cool.

Hello,

It's nice to have it on geogebra, we can play with it and *see* how it varies. However, if red 'k' is the projection distance, shouldn't it also be set back 6mm along [GJ] on the off side of J ? And the typical 'f' distance would also be 6mm as the USB has a 12mm diameter, not radius. It is still usable this way if we make the corrections, so nice job anyway!

I could be wrong, but I think some of this is the "behind the scenes" math, and what is actually being used.  For example "f" may be the "center of the jig" to the "center of the USB", not the actual diameter or radius of the jig.

[tgbto]

I could be wrong, but I think some of this is the "behind the scenes" math, and what is actually being used.  For example "f" may be the "center of the jig" to the "center of the USB", not the actual diameter or radius of the jig.

You're seldom wrong. I, on the contrary...

[benhung]

https://www.geogebra.org/m/wgnjeedv

It's nice to have it on geogebra, ..........

...
I'll remove the link couple of days later. It's your concept, I don't think I have the right to show it in public without your permission.

Benjamin

https://www.geogebra.org/m/wgnjeedv
...

Well, hopefully you can leave it up, because this is very cool.

This diagram is origin model developed by Ton. If Ton say it's OK, I don't mind leave it there.  Also can share my work sheet (GeoGebra's GGB file) to anyone who interest.  Very easy to modify it suit for various jigs, just change the value of factors. It can suddenly turn out to be a calculator with diagram, that's the way I setup my T8.

Benjamin

[benhung]

I could be wrong, but I think some of this is the "behind the scenes" math, and what is actually being used.  For example "f" may be the "center of the jig" to the "center of the USB", not the actual diameter or radius of the jig.

hi cbwx,

You are not wrong, same as tgbto.  We are trying to find out the result, just approach it by different way.  Some way is easier, the other maybe complicate.  All of us can reach our goal when we keep it step by step.

I use a different way to approach it, assume point C is the centre of USB. When we bound jigs on USB, they are link together.  All machine parts are moving and rotating when machine is working, only Grind wheel's axle and USB are fixed. Wheel's axle is point A, jigs rotate axle is point C.  we adjust the distance of AC to get desire blade angle we want. It's done!

English is my 2nd language.  I hope I don't make things more confuse. I don't know how to upload picture  to explain it.  Sorry about that.

Benjamin

[Dutchman]

... snip
I'll remove the link couple of days later
...
https://www.geogebra.org/m/wgnjeedv
...

Hello Benjamin
Congratulations on your simulation of my angle setting formula.
I didn't understand your post, probably because I'm not familiar with 'GeoGebra'.
However, your explanation and the diagram in the new link gave the clarity I was missing.
You are right that it might explain a lot to new users especially regarding reference points. That's why I would be sorry if you removed the link. I would like you to add the link with some explanation as 'reply' to my topic, the link of which you will find in my 'signature',
Thanks in advance for your effort.

[benhung]

... snip
I'll remove the link couple of days later
...
https://www.geogebra.org/m/wgnjeedv
...

Hello Benjamin
,,,,,

 I would like you to add the link with some explanation as 'reply' to my topic, the link of which you will find in my 'signature',

Hi Ton,

Thank you again about your great concept. Please give me couple of days to make an English version.

I'm also new to GeoGebra, I started it about a week ago.  It's very easy to use. I think you can easily handle it.

I'm sorry. The web page show "Author" name by default, can not be change.  I don't have GeoGebra account. Mr. Kuan is my cousin, he help me convert work sheet to web page.

That's why I need few day to modify it. I will re-post it when it is done.

Regards,

Benjamin

[tgbto]

Intrigued by @benhung's idea, I thought I might give geogebra a try.

Here's a first shot, with the same naming conventions as in Jan's TormekCalc spreadsheet, so I could double check values. And guess what : R=125, TUSB = 78.9 and projection distance of 139mm gives ... a nice 15° angle! I assumed a fixed (top of) USB height above casing, but it would even be easier just setting TUSB.

The nice thing with GeoGebra is the only computation done uses Pythagora's theorem once. No need to master inverse cotangents like @Dutchman to set angles

[benhung]

Intrigued by @benhung's idea, I thought I might give geogebra a try.

Here's a first shot, with the same naming conventions as in Jan's TormekCalc spreadsheet, so I could double check values. And guess what : R=125, TUSB = 78.9 and projection distance of 139mm gives ... a nice 15° angle! I assumed a fixed (top of) USB height above casing, but it would even be easier just setting TUSB.

The nice thing with GeoGebra is the only computation done uses Pythagora's theorem once. No need to master inverse cotangents like @Dutchman to set angles

Well done!

Expect more sharing from you. Thanks! 

Benjamin