How to make chisel edges square

[Ken S]

Please note that the squaring procedure is done using the inside face of the grinding wheel. As the inside face is never used for grinding, it is probably square with the outer rim.

It would seem prudent to check the squareness of the grinding wheel before initially using it.

This procedure is an example of how Tormek technique has evolved over the years. Tormek has never intentionally tried to keep these developments secret.
However, before the online classes, Tormek had no efficient way to share them with "the masses" (us). Over the years, through hanging around Stig at shows and many emails with support, I have been able to learn about some of these developments. I was always frustrated because this word of mouth method seemed inefficient. I have been delighted with the online classes. I have watched all of them at least twice, several of them multiple times. I learn more each time I watch them.

The SE-77 opens up many new possibilities, especially with controlled cambering of plane irons. These new capabilities also bring a longer learning curve. In my opinion, it is a good trade.

Ken

[Sir Amwell]

Thanks all for your help. I managed to get good square edges by being patient. Repeatedly using the marker method to check progress. That last batch of chisels turned out well.
Thanks for the link Ken. Hadn't seen this particular part of the Tormek video and it makes sense. A good tip to remember.
As for the post before about how we can be sure the stone is square when we true using the support bar?
Well I think the reply from Ken answers that. In more detail:
True the stone.
Check it's square to the back of the stone.
If it's not then Stigs method won't work.

[tormekal]

Can this procedure be used with diamond stones? 

[Ken S]

Good question. Stig's tip of placing the chisel against the side of the wheel should work very well with diamond wheels.

Two things to be aware of:
Never use the TT-50 truing tool or the stone grader with diamond wheels. Never, or you will ruin the wheels.
Using the side of the chisel to check for square presumes that the chisel itself is square.

Stig's tip is fast and accurate. I continue to keep my markers and square handy. Incidentally, I emailed support about the possibility of adding the small, very handy square included with the 50th Anniversary model in the product lineup. Tormek has not made a decision about stocking it as an accessory, or what the price might be.

Ken

[tormekal]

defintely won't use truing tool on dimaond stones.  Reason i asked is that on my T4 one side of the diamond stone is plastic that goes towards the motor so wasn't sure if thats a good reference point
That little square is nice, I ended up getting one from amazon.  tiny japanese machinist square, seems to work great. 

[Ken S]

 Tormekal,

Stig's tip works with the diamond wheels, if a minor variation is introduced. The plastic inside face is square, but slightly indented. Placing a gift card or something similar will compensate for this indentation. (It's OK if it makes the indentation a bit proud. The plastic spacer card becomes the reference surface.

Ken

[tgbto]

Are we sure though, that the support is exactly perpendicular to the side of the stone ? Because we true parallel to the support

I tried to take measurement this weekend. On an admittedly reduced sample consisting in the two T-8s I own. I tried to measure with both a digital protractor and a machined square.

Here's my take on this : though USB and inner stone wall don't seem to be *perfectly* perpendicular, they are perpendicular within the precision of the digital protractor, and meet at an angle that is ever so slightly obtuse on both machines. About barely enough to let light shine through the tiny gap between the square and the USB on the side opposite to the housing. So as far as I am concerned, I'll consider those two are perpendicular.

[eld0n]

Are we sure though, that the support is exactly perpendicular to the side of the stone ? Because we true parallel to the support

I tried to take measurement this weekend. On an admittedly reduced sample consisting in the two T-8s I own. I tried to measure with both a digital protractor and a machined square.

Here's my take on this : though USB and inner stone wall don't seem to be *perfectly* perpendicular, they are perpendicular within the precision of the digital protractor, and meet at an angle that is ever so slightly obtuse on both machines. About barely enough to let light shine through the tiny gap between the square and the USB on the side opposite to the housing. So as far as I am concerned, I'll consider those two are perpendicular.

EDIT: I just realised that the out-of-squareness of my plane blades does not have anything to do with my grinding wheel not being perpendicular to the USB, since the grinding surface should at any rate be parallel to the USB and thus, the SE-77. However, I refrain from deleting my post in case someone has another troubleshooting suggestion.

Dear all,

I am new here and consider myself a beginner when it comes to sharpening with the Tormek. I own a T4 that I bought used. Upon purchase, I noticed that the grinding surface was not square to the sides of the stone. I figured that was an error on the part of the previous user and proceeded to true the stone as per the many instruction videos on YouTube.

Now, the issue is that none of my blades come out square. I fact, they are so much out of square that the lateral adjustment on my planes is insufficient to get a straight cut. Of course, user error on my part is highly likely, and I hope we can work out what I am doing wrong.

First, I noticed the two lines on the SE-77 were not aligned, though the discrepancy was minimal. Changing that didn't help.

Then, I re-trued the grinding stone, seeing as I had sharpened some knives and other non-square edges in the meantime. When finished, I noticed that the again, the grinding surface was out of square. I do not remember whether it was out of square in the same sense as when I bought the T4.

Then I tried pushing down on the threaded section of the USB when locking it in place, as I have seen in instruction videos. That did not seem to improve things.

After reading this thread, I began to wonder whether the USB was not perpendicular to the stone, and voilà: looks like that is the case. I notice that pursuant to tgbto's description, a bit of discrepancy is probably normal. However, in my case, the gap is quite significant. Granted, I am using an old square, which however appears to be somewhat true. Also, the 'slant' of the stone corresponds to the non-squareness of the grinding surface (hope that makes sense).

Could the positioning of the USB relative to the stone be the cause of my problem? As far as I can tell, the USB is not bent and perfectly straight. I am reluctant to remove the stone because the last time, changing the position of the wheel resulted in considerable truing and I don't want to waste more SG than necessary.

I am confident that I clamp my edge properly in the SE-77, ie there is no light shining through between the back of the blade and the jig and I make sure the blade is firmly pushed against the 90 degree stop of the jig.

Thanks a lot in advance for any thoughts and suggestions you might have 

[John Hancock Sr]

A couple of thoughts. If the machine was abused (dropped et al) before getting to you then square is not guaranteed.

Tormek recommend that when removing and  placing the wheel always do that with the label up so that you always put the stone on in the same orientation which can compensate for out of square.

The key parameters for square is the USB parallel to the wheel. So long as the outer surface and the USB are parallel your jig should give you a square grind. To do this Place the wheel on the machine label oriented up then true the stone.

For this next step use a relatively narrow blade, but not too narrow, since it will be a quicker process to test your setup. Say a 1/2" or 12mm would be ideal. Place the blade into the SE-77 hard against the stop on the right (viewed from the rear of the jig ie. the chisel handle side), slide the second securing screw upto the chisel and secure the screws so that the top of the jig is parallel to the bottom. Check from both sides of the jig that the tool is tight against the square edge inside the jig. I sometimes find that after I place the tool and tighten it it slips marginally and I have to untighten slightly, readjust then retighten. At this point you should be able to use a small square to check that the the of the chisel (all this assumes that the chisel has parallel edges of curse) is at right angles to the face of the jig. If not then that may be your issue.

Now start sharpening. After the edge starts to form use your square to check for square. if you find that it is sharpening out of square then you can use the "Two smaller adjustment screws" to adjust the angle either way. In theory if you have done everything above then you should be into the semis without dropping a set. But if there is any skew this this will adjust for it.

The issue may be that either the shaft is slightly bent, the case is distorted or the stone is out of square. In any case trueing the stone will compensate for all of this.

Another check you can do is after trueing the stone lower the USB until it almost touches the stone, draw a fine line across the stone parallel to the USB then when you put the jig onto the USB with the chisel in it check that the edge of the chisel is parallel to the line you drew, assuming that the chisel edge is square to start with.

When I first used the Tormek I fund that I had issues getting edges square and I think it is because I was not meticulous enough with the setup I outlined above. Even now I get the odd chisel or plane blade that is ever so slightly out of square. But In my experience if you are careful with your setup then you should get square grinds even on problematic machines.

[eld0n]

Thanks a lot for the helpful reply, John - and sorry for taking so long to react. Life has a tendency to get in the way of the important things, for instance sharpening on a Tormek or checking this forum

I will try the procedure you recommend and hope that with a bit of practice, my results will improve and I will get square edges.

Best regards and thanks again!