A different way of setting up the Tormek machine

[Ken S]

Ken,

"The guy in the video" is the late Vadim Kriachuk, better known here as "wootz" a highly regarded, longtime member. Wootz was the inventor of the FVB. You can learn a lot about his techniques by studying his Knife Grinders you tubes on his channel of that name. Once you understand and work with it, the math is not "high-falutin'".

Ken

PS you should be aware that Vadim passed away earlier this year. Knife Grinders web site has not been updated to indicate that they no longer sell most of their products, including their FVB. Their software is still available; however, they claim it only works with their products. As much as I liked wootz, at this point, I would look for another source for an FVB and software.

[cbwx34]

I found this video on YouTube .... https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UckPmizllk0 The guy in the video shows how to use an FVB in conjunction with the FVB software. While the video is very enlightening in some ways I can't really say that I understand what he's doing exactly in order to arrive at the correct sharpening angle. He sure makes it look extremely complicated !! This guy is obviously a professional and I like the end result that he's able to achieve toward the end of the video. It's kind of discouraging in a way because I don't really understand the software and all of the high-falutin' mathematical computations.

Keep it simple... there's no need to understand the math involved.  Measure the wheel, measure the distance between the Stop Collar and the blade edge, plug it and the angle into one of several calculators available (see links in my signature), and set the USB height based on the answer.  (And don't get caught up trying to take measurements in the hundredths...) 

If you do want to see the math, download Dutchman's book on the subject.  You don't need to understand it all to use it... but it will give you an idea where all this came from.

[Ken98660]

Thanks you guys ... I really appreciate the help !

I know how to put a fairly decent edge on a knife using the freehand method on a bench stone, but the Tormek is something that's totally new and different. I never paid a great deal of attention to the honing stage of knife sharpening until now. It was my usual practice to simply grind a burr on a coarse stone and then to finish by swiping a couple of passes on a fine stone. It has always been my experience that the more that I would run my knife on a fine stone, the duller it would become. It never occurred to me that honing on a strop or on a fine stone is the key to getting a really sharp edge.

[Ken S]

Ken,

Here is a link to a good learning reference about honing:

https://youtu.be/40AoJ8UBprI

Enjoy.

Ken

[tgbto]

If it sounds complicated then it is. The purpose of software is to help you, not to confuse you.

There are basically two ways to approach the sharpening angle computation via software :
- measurement to some reference on the machine (and you need accurate measurement of some dimensions)
- measurement to the wheel itself (and it works with or without FVB, it would even work in a snap with Wolfgang's dual-MB-100 "spaceship" setup).


You can look at @cbwx34's signature or This thread for more.

Cheers,

Nick.

[cbwx34]

Forum member RichColvin has a page on his website, that, along with a picture, is a good example of how a calculator works (measuring directly to the wheel)...

https://sharpeninghandbook.info/indexCalcProj.html

(Just note that this calculator measures to the bottom of the support bar, while most (like Calcapp) measure to the top).

[Ken98660]

I don't understand something. The gentleman in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNQR9vMCXac appears to be honing a chisel on the Tormek model T-8 with a sharpening jig and with the universal support in the horizontal position, however, he doesn't appear to be using a Front Vertical Base. Can someone please explain this to me ? I was operating under the assumption that an FVB is necessary when honing with a jig with the universal support in the horizontal position.

[Ken S]

Good question, Ken.

The Front Vertical Base is designed to provide clearance between the support bar and the locking screw on the knife jig. This is only a problem when working on the bevel where the locking screw is under the jig. It is also only a problem when the jig travels far enough for the locking screw to bump into the horizontal support bar.

Unlike knives, a chisel only has one bevel. The locking screws are always above the jig and well clear of the support bar. The FVB offers no advantage with sharpening chisels. In fact, the Anglemaster works very well setting the angle with the flat backs of chisels.

The FVB is a convenient accessory for setting bevel angles for honing knives.

Ken

[Ken98660]

Good question, Ken.

The Front Vertical Base is designed to provide clearance between the support bar and the locking screw on the knife jig. This is only a problem when working on the bevel where the locking screw is under the jig. It is also only a problem when the jig travels far enough for the locking screw to bump into the horizontal support bar.

Unlike knives, a chisel only has one bevel. The locking screws are always above the jig and well clear of the support bar. The FVB offers no advantage with sharpening chisels. In fact, the Anglemaster works very well setting the angle with the flat backs of chisels.

The FVB is a convenient accessory for setting bevel angles for honing knives.

Ken

Thank you, Ken, for answering my question. I have another one for you, if that's alright ....

Let's say that I'm using the T-8 machine with the FVB setup. Is there any reason why I can't simply use my angle master to locate the correct sharpening angle ?

[Ken S]

Ken, another very good question, and one with strongly felt differing opinions. I do not feel that I am the best person to answer it. My knife sharpening is limited to my personal (mostly kitchen) knives. I use these knives as my learning laboratory. I have slightly more than a rational person would have; however, I do not sharpen professionally or in high volume.

I have developed my own method of setting my knife jigs. An online search for "kenjig instructions" will bring up the PDF I wrote several years ago. I need to update it. Recently, I have found that my T1 and T2 satisfy my everyday knife sharpening requirements. We have more active (and vocal!)knife sharpeners on the forum. I am certain you will receive more replies.

Ken

[cbwx34]

...
Let's say that I'm using the T-8 machine with the FVB setup. Is there any reason why I can't simply use my angle master to locate the correct sharpening angle ?

On a knife or are you now talking chisels?

If knives... just keep in mind that the AngleMaster doesn't account for blade taper from spine to edge.  So, depending on the knife, you can be off several degrees.  Using something like a calculator or the Kenjig eliminates this error, and also is more accurate and just as important, more consistent.  You can also better match the angle between sharpening and honing.

After a short use, I also found using an app/calculator easier than dealing with the Anglemaster.

It just depends on the results you want.