SE-77 & TTS-100

[RichColvin]

I've been re-sharpening my chisels a lot lately.  I think there must be a way to use the TTS-100 Turning Tool Setter to make the sharpening process faster.  Using the diagrams below, I'd like to come up with a formula for the projection based on the desired angle.

There are 3 key measurements:
  * When using the B hole on the TTS-100, I measured that the USB is set to be 17 mm away from the grindstone. 
  * The distance from the USB to the SE-77 where the top of the chisel is held is 25 mm.
  * The width of the SE-77 is 35 mm.

The values I measured for P (projection) are:

   20° bevel angle, P = 49 mm

   25° bevel angle, P = 44 mm

   30° bevel angle, P = 38 mm

But, I would prefer to have a formal to calculate this.  So this is a request of my geeky friends to help me find such a formula.  Anyone?

[Ken S]

Rich,

Why do you need a formula? I started using my TTS-100 around 2010 to set my chisels and plane blades. I used one of the two holes in the TTS-100 to set the Distance from the grinding wheel to the support bar. The two metal wheels auto correct for wheel diameter changes. (This is also why the same settings work for the T4 and T8.)

I placed a blank piece of labelmaker tape in one of the three Projection slots. Use the Anglemaster to set the bevel angle by adjusting the Projection, not the microadjust. This would normally be clumsier than using the microadjust; however, you only have to do it once for each angle setting. The Anglemaster works fine for the large flat plane with chisels and plane blades.

My piece of label tape tape from 2010 is still going strong. As a side benefit, it does not interfere with sharpening turning tools.

Ken

[Dutchman]

...
But, I would prefer to have a formal to calculate this.  So this is a request of my geeky friends to help me find such a formula.  Anyone?

Rich,
In my document "More math ..." (see link in my 'signature' to find it) I solved this problem for the "cbwx34-fix", but basically the same problem.

[RichColvin]

Rich,

Why do you need a formula? I started using my TTS-100 around 2010 to set my chisels and plane blades. I used one of the two holes in the TTS-100 to set the Distance from the grinding wheel to the support bar. The two metal wheels auto correct for wheel diameter changes. (This is also why the same settings work for the T4 and T8.)

I placed a blank piece of labelmaker tape in one of the three Projection slots. Use the Anglemaster to set the bevel angle by adjusting the Projection, not the microadjust. This would normally be clumsier than using the microadjust; however, you only have to do it once for each angle setting. The Anglemaster works fine for the large flat plane with chisels and plane blades.

My piece of label tape tape from 2010 is still going strong. As a side benefit, it does not interfere with sharpening turning tools.

Ken

Ken,

I want it to be as easy to use as the 55/65/75 mm slots in the TTS-100, at least for the commonly used angles of 20°, 25°, & 30°.  So I am planning to 3D print a stop for those angles.

I like the way the TTS-100 is so integrated with the SVD-186 for wood turning, and I want to use the same approach for quick-and-dirty resharpening of bench chisels.

But, for other bevel angles, I want to have a simple calculator for the projection.


Ton,

Thank you for the input.  I'll look thru your notes. 

Kind regards,
Rich

[jvh]

I've been re-sharpening my chisels a lot lately.  I think there must be a way to use the TTS-100 Turning Tool Setter to make the sharpening process faster.  Using the diagrams below, I'd like to come up with a formula for the projection based on the desired angle.

There are 3 key measurements:
  * When using the B hole on the TTS-100, I measured that the USB is set to be 17 mm away from the grindstone. 
  * The distance from the USB to the SE-77 where the top of the chisel is held is 25 mm.
  * The width of the SE-77 is 35 mm.

The values I measured for P (projection) are:

   20° bevel angle, P = 49 mm
   25° bevel angle, P = 44 mm
   30° bevel angle, P = 38 mm

But, I would prefer to have a formal to calculate this.  So this is a request of my geeky friends to help me find such a formula.  Anyone?

Hello,

you can do such calculations in TormekCalc using What-If Analysis / Goal Seek, see pictures.

Calculations for SE-77 jig are supported, constants are stored in Jigs sheets, projection should be measured as in your drawing.
Since t USB is measured in TormekCalc from the top of the USB, the desired value is 29 mm (17+12 mm).

I calculated with a wheel diameter of 250 mm and I got different results for the given angles.

Feel free to ask if you need further information.

jvh

[cbwx34]

I thought of something similar, a calculator with a "slider" for Projection Dist. so you can change it until the USB height matched...



... (I did this in Apple's "Numbers").

I "stole" some of the info from Tormek Calc (the Jig Radius and PD "correction") and the answers seem similar to what Rich got (although not the same), but I have no idea at this point if it's truly accurate.  Just presenting the idea.

Rich,
In my document "More math ..." (see link in my 'signature' to find it) I solved this problem for the "cbwx34-fix", but basically the same problem.

I looked at this too, but didn't see a way to change it to calculate the Projection Distance?

[jvh]

Hello,

since there were different results, I checked the TormekCalc outputs in parametric CAD and I can confirm that the results posted in Reply #4 are correct, see attached images.

For completeness, I should mention that there is a special module in TormekCalc called BevelCalc for back calculation of the grinding angle (from different USB heights, different jigs, etc.).

jvh

[cbwx34]

Nevermind... jvh straightened me out.   

[RichColvin]

Jan,


Thank you!


Rich

[cbwx34]

Jan,

Thank you!

Rich

Did TormekCalc end up matching with your results?

[RichColvin]

I plan to 3D print a jig later this week and try this approach.  I think that it will be close enough that the projection jig will be quite useful.

I'll report back once I have some results.  And if it works, I'll provide a link to the 3D print file.

Rich

[RichColvin]

It worked perfectly!   Thank you everyone for the help. 

The 3D printed parts are documented here:  https://sharpeninghandbook.info/indexJigs.html#ProjJigTTS100

Rich

[Ken S]

Rich,

Your "projector" design is clever and useful. I think we will see more 3D printed add ons for the Tormek in the future.

I started using the TTS-100 as a set up tool for planes and chisels years ago, even before working on the kenjig. I think it is an amazing device, and could never understand why Tormek has not made a slightly modified version for chisels and plane blades. Holes A and B provide two practical Distance options. The two metal revolving wheels provide automatic correction for wheel wear. I believe this is a Tormek patent. (The "proof of the pudding" is that the TTS-100 works with both 200 and 250mm grinding wheels without needing any setting changes as the Anglemaster requires.) My use of blank label tape and Sharpie marker, while much more primitive than your design, is quite functional.

Over the years, I have cobbled together several items for my Tormek. Even the kenjig, which I normally make using my bandsaw. I use my bandsaw because I happen to have it. If I did not already have it, 3D printing would be a very cost effective option. In our present high shipping cost environment, being able to use 3D printing at home or locally would be a substantial saving. Some local libraries even offer 3D printing services.

Keep up the good work, Rich!

Ken

[cbwx34]

I've not dealt with chisels much, and they're pretty easy to set with the AngleMaster, (that nice flat side... aaahhhhh)    but I figured out, based on some of the TormekCalc info, that you can use the Calcapp app (and I'm guessing most of the other apps) to set the USB height.

You set the Jig Diameter to 49.2 and add 30.1 to the measured Projection Distance.

Glad this came up... learn something new every day!   

p.s. Hats off to jvh!  And I might add, if you can, send jvh a donation and get his Spreadsheet.  Totally worth it, even if you only use it as a reference to some of the other calculators, or for example, a way to document your sharpening.

[jvh]

I've not dealt with chisels much, and they're pretty easy to set with the AngleMaster, (that nice flat side... aaahhhhh)    but I figured out, based on some of the TormekCalc info, that you can use the Calcapp app (and I'm guessing most of the other apps) to set the USB height.

You set the Jig Diameter to 49.2 and add 30.1 to the measured Projection Distance.

Glad this came up... learn something new every day!   

p.s. Hats off to jvh!  And I might add, if you can, send jvh a donation and get his Spreadsheet.  Totally worth it, even if you only use it as a reference to some of the other calculators, or for example, a way to document your sharpening.

Thanks cb.

Just for clarification, the public version of TormekCalc is still available for free, just send me a PM for the download password.

jvh