Tormek T4 or T8 - ULTIMATE!

[JustADudeInSweden]

I have not been in the sharpening world for long but with the little experience I have with my new T4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bI6Erij5Lk8) ...

and after looking at the Tormek machine history (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKHyTAx4ExA),


can't help but wonder, why has Tormek not produced a machine (T4 or T8) with two wheels (regular on one end and SJ (stead of honing wheel) on the other) and call it the "T8 Ultimate"?!

No more changing wheels - and for many, they arn't even using the honing wheel or have one on a seperate machine so it wont be a big loss...

Am I missing something?

[3D Anvil]

No personal experience, but I believe Knife Grinders Australia and probably others have produced add-ons to use the machines (or at least the T8) with two wheels.  But I believe their system would only work with CBN or diamond wheels which don't require water.

[highpower]

I don't see where that would be much of a benefit personally. With the Tormek Easy Lock you can change a wheel in under a minute. Adding a second stone would have it's drawbacks. The added weight and load on the drive system would likely require a larger / stronger motor which would increase costs. Also remember that the motor and drive wheel are located on that side of the machine. Adding more water run off to those areas would also create a need for more water protection, once again increasing the cost. (IMHO)

[nevertakeadayoff]

I hate changing stones, it interrupts my process. I've  been considering getting another Tormek even though I don't sharpen a lot of knives often.

Also, sometimes I change the stone and it wobbles. Sometime it doesn't.

[cbwx34]

...
Also, sometimes I change the stone and it wobbles. Sometime it doesn't.

Haven't done it personally, but some users will put a mark on the shaft and on the stone, so when they remove/reinstall it, they can line it up in the same location... to prevent this.

[JustADudeInSweden]

I hate changing stones, it interrupts my process. I've  been considering getting another Tormek ...

Perhaps I've been looking at this wrong...  looking at your above statement I wonder how much a "T8 Ultimate" would eat into the sales of people buying a second machine.

Also, sometimes I change the stone and it wobbles. Sometime it doesn't.

Tormek had a video on this, put it on it's side and then install the stone, it should center it with no wobble.
I installed mine out of the box on it's side and no wobble :yay:

No personal experience, but I believe Knife Grinders Australia and probably others have produced add-ons to use the machines (or at least the T8) with two wheels.  But I believe their system would only work with CBN or diamond wheels which don't require water.

Yes. I've seen vids on youtube with dry "attachments", no second water tray..

[Ken S]

Torgny Jansson made a single wheel sharpening grinder for his father fifty years ago. The single wheel grinder is an integral part of the Tormek philosophy. The stone grader and the leather honing wheel came later. Almost every Tormek leaving the factory has included a leather honing wheel as partof the original package. Doubtless some users do not use the leather honing wheel. I would be very surprised if the overwhelming majority of Tormek users were not regular users of the leather honing wheel.

The SJ Japanese wheel leaves a fine finish. It is Tormek's most expensive accessory. I would be surprised if more than 20% of Tormek owners actually have one.

Given the cost of developing, manufacturing, and marketing of creating a two grinding wheel "super model", i believe just purchasing a second Tormek would be a better choice.

Ken

[nevertakeadayoff]

I hate changing stones, it interrupts my process. I've  been considering getting another Tormek ...

Perhaps I've been looking at this wrong...  looking at your above statement I wonder how much a "T8 Ultimate" would eat into the sales of people buying a second machine.

Also, sometimes I change the stone and it wobbles. Sometime it doesn't.

Tormek had a video on this, put it on it's side and then install the stone, it should center it with no wobble.
I installed mine out of the box on it's side and no wobble :yay:

No personal experience, but I believe Knife Grinders Australia and probably others have produced add-ons to use the machines (or at least the T8) with two wheels.  But I believe their system would only work with CBN or diamond wheels which don't require water.

Yes. I've seen vids on youtube with dry "attachments", no second water tray..

LOL YEP

I imagine most people use the honing wheel. I would be using it if I didn't LOVE the Jap stone!

Well, I hate to admit it... it always wobbles, especially the Jap stone.

[Beaker]

I hate changing stones, it interrupts my process. I've  been considering getting another Tormek even though I don't sharpen a lot of knives often.

Also, sometimes I change the stone and it wobbles. Sometime it doesn't.

This happened to me until I implemented the strategy in this "Tormek Live Tips and Tricks" video.  See the link at t= 25:40.  If you true the stone and always replace using this procedure, you will not have this problem again.

https://youtu.be/0htKSoTBjoI?t=1540

[nevertakeadayoff]

Right on!! Thanks!

[highpower]

Well, I hate to admit it... it always wobbles, especially the Jap stone.

Wolfgang talks about how the SJ stones have a looser tolerance. https://youtu.be/0htKSoTBjoI?t=1061
Apparently due to the softer composition of Japanese stone it is difficult to obtain and keep a perfectly concentric bore. So they don't fit on drive shaft as snugly as the other stones. At least that is the way I understood his meaning. 

[tgbto]

...
Also, sometimes I change the stone and it wobbles. Sometime it doesn't.

Haven't done it personally, but some users will put a mark on the shaft and on the stone, so when they remove/reinstall it, they can line it up in the same location... to prevent this.

I do that... partially. I always put the stone on the shaft with the label up. I consider the shaft true enough for my tolerances, and I've never seen any sign that it is not on both my T-8s.

But unless we are not talking about the same thing, this solves what I call the stone being "out of round" when it is not put on the machine in the same position it was trued. The wobble is to me a side-to-side movement; one that is due to the stone having some lateral play on the shaft, that got solved for me just by making sure the shaft was all the way in before tightening the nut.

[Ken S]

I hate changing stones, it interrupts my process. I've  been considering getting another Tormek ...

Perhaps I've been looking at this wrong...  looking at your above statement I wonder how much a "T8 Ultimate" would eat into the sales of people buying a second machine.



[quote author=nevertakeadayoff link=topic=4893.msg35074#msg35074


This statement bothers me. I hope you did not mean to imply that Tormek has decided not to make a two wheel machine in order to boost sales. I have seen no evidence of that. A number of us do have more than one Tormek; however, this was due to our own choice rather than encouragement from Tormek. The Tormek philosophy has always been a single, stand alone machine. Throughout most of Tormek's history, that philosophy has always been with a single grinding wheel. Until recently, the extra wheels, including the diamond wheels, have received very little attention from Tormek.

Ken

[cbwx34]

This statement bothers me. I hope you did not mean to imply that Tormek has decided not to make a two wheel machine in order to boost sales. I have seen no evidence of that. A number of us do have more than one Tormek; however, this was due to our own choice rather than encouragement from Tormek. The Tormek philosophy has always been a single, stand alone machine. Throughout most of Tormek's history, that philosophy has always been with a single grinding wheel. Until recently, the extra wheels, including the diamond wheels, have received very little attention from Tormek.

Ken

In fact, I think along these lines... if a dedicated "knife sharpening machine" came out, (like an improved T4000)... I could see it being a pretty big deal.

[JustADudeInSweden]

I hate changing stones, it interrupts my process. I've  been considering getting another Tormek ...

Perhaps I've been looking at this wrong...  looking at your above statement I wonder how much a "T8 Ultimate" would eat into the sales of people buying a second machine.



[quote author=nevertakeadayoff link=topic=4893.msg35074#msg35074


This statement bothers me. I hope you did not mean to imply that Tormek has decided not to make a two wheel machine in order to boost sales. I have seen no evidence of that. A number of us do have more than one Tormek; however, this was due to our own choice rather than encouragement from Tormek. The Tormek philosophy has always been a single, stand alone machine. Throughout most of Tormek's history, that philosophy has always been with a single grinding wheel. Until recently, the extra wheels, including the diamond wheels, have received very little attention from Tormek.

Ken

I didn't mean any offense but as a business that would also be one of my thoughts.
I wouldnt want to cannibalize an already profitable product line - I'm not saying profits are everything; and after adding the hassle of making a new machine and marketing it can add up to be too much.