I’m New! SG-250 vs Diamond Wheel Questions

[CeeDubb]

Hello all! I'm new here to the forum.

I just picked up T8 yesterday. What started as a simple desire to sharpen my blades turned into a sharpening obsession. I have a feeling that I'll turn this into a lifelong "side-hustle" and cater to those that are as passionate about their blades as I am.

For practice I grabbed an inexpensive kitchen knife to reprofile and even after grading the SG-250 to #220, it doesn't seem to be efficient (or consistent) in removing material. Am I correct to assume the DC and DF Wheels will do a better job?

I'm quite sure I'll be grabbing the gamut of wheels:

SB-250 ($255)
SJ-250 ($445)
DC-250 ($365)
DF-250 ($350)
DE-250 ($350)

Which wheel would be the most useful as a first purchase? I've paused all new knife purchases until I get all the Wheels and become fairly proficient at sharpening. 

Thanks in advance!

[cbwx34]

Hello all! I'm new here to the forum.

I just picked up T8 yesterday. What started as a simple desire to sharpen my blades turned into a sharpening obsession. I have a feeling that I'll turn this into a lifelong "side-hustle" and cater to those that are as passionate about their blades as I am.

For practice I grabbed an inexpensive kitchen knife to reprofile and even after grading the SG-250 to #220, it doesn't seem to be efficient (or consistent) in removing material. Am I correct to assume the DC and DF Wheels will do a better job?

I'm quite sure I'll be grabbing the gamut of wheels:

SB-250 ($255)
SJ-250 ($445)
DC-250 ($365)
DF-250 ($350)
DE-250 ($350)

Which wheel would be the most useful as a first purchase? I'm paused all new knife purchases until I get all the Wheels and become fairly proficient at sharpening. 

Thanks in advance!

The answer you'll probably get is "none of the above"... yet.

The stock wheel is pretty capable, especially on regular knives.  Two things come to mind... the stone grader is often not used enough and correctly by new users (myself included), to truly make the wheel coarse.  Also a bit of pressure can be applied when sharpening... while most advice is not to use a lot of pressure and "let the stone do the work", the stock wheel sometimes benefits from a little more, especially when reprofiling, or on really dull knives.  (This doesn't apply to diamond wheels, never use a lot on them).

If you haven't already, watch some of the Tormek videos on sharpening, and give the stock stone a bit more use before moving on.

[John_B]

When I first started I also got inconsistent results with the SG-250 and the leather wheel with paste. It took looking at the edges with a loupe magnifier to prove to me that I was not developing a bur along the entire length of the blade. I would feel a burr and assume I was ready do do the other side or hone. Careful inspection revealed that I was not getting a burr along the entire knife. Correcting this and repeatedly grading the SG-250 coarse corrected this. My second revelation was that I was not as good as I thought I was at honing. Some knives were sharp while it seemed like others were duller after honing. Here I found that practice and muscle memory development helped a lot. I could get knives sharper than out of the box but they were still short of what others were able to achieve. The final step for me was using the FVB (Front Vertical Base) for guided honing. With this attachment I was able obtain razor sharp edges honing at the proper angle based on the blades steel.

While I would truly like to buy all the diamond or CBN wheels instead, however, I have not found a need. My current customers have by knife standards fairly common blades. None of them are exotic steels that require diamond or CBN to sharpen properly. I also firmly believe that if you do not learn the basics and often not so basic techniques you will just be doing things wrong on a different stone. You also need to decide for yourself how sharp an edge you really want or need. Like all endeavors achieving the last 20% can be a rabbit hole requiring the investment of time and money.

[CeeDubb]

The answer you'll probably get is "none of the above"... yet.

The stock wheel is pretty capable, especially on regular knives.  Two things come to mind... the stone grader is often not used enough and correctly by new users (myself included), to truly make the wheel coarse.  Also a bit of pressure can be applied when sharpening... while most advice is not to use a lot of pressure and "let the stone do the work", the stock wheel sometimes benefits from a little more, especially when reprofiling, or on really dull knives.  (This doesn't apply to diamond wheels, never use a lot on them).

If you haven't already, watch some of the Tormek videos on sharpening, and give the stock stone a bit more use before moving on.

I will give the SG-250 a bit more grind time. The goal is to get totally familiar with that wheel, but I know I'll be annoyed with it within the next week or two. I think I'll buy wheels in the following order:

1. DF-250 (Probably the most versatile)
2. DE-250 (More refined edges)
3. SJ-250 (Mirror polish them edges)
4. DC-250 (Quicker fixing of blade)
5. SB-250 (Handle any of the Supersteel blades that need fixing)

I'm interested in folks' experiences with the different wheels and how they use them.

Thanks!

[Ken S]

Excellent replies from CB and John. I agree.

I found this short video this morning. Stig is one of Tormek's top knife and chisel sharpeners. He is also a strong advocate of the SG-250. Here is a link:

https://youtu.be/Za2wyBAayzE

Ken

[Ken S]

The answer you'll probably get is "none of the above"... yet.

The stock wheel is pretty capable, especially on regular knives.  Two things come to mind... the stone grader is often not used enough and correctly by new users (myself included), to truly make the wheel coarse.  Also a bit of pressure can be applied when sharpening... while most advice is not to use a lot of pressure and "let the stone do the work", the stock wheel sometimes benefits from a little more, especially when reprofiling, or on really dull knives.  (This doesn't apply to diamond wheels, never use a lot on them).

If you haven't already, watch some of the Tormek videos on sharpening, and give the stock stone a bit more use before moving on.

I will give the SG-250 a bit more grind time. The goal is to get totally familiar with that wheel, but I know I'll be annoyed with it within the next week or two. I think I'll buy wheels in the following order:

1. DF-250 (Probably the most versatile)
2. DE-250 (More refined edges)
3. SJ-250 (Mirror polish them edges)
4. DC-250 (Quicker fixing of blade)
5. SB-250 (Handle any of the Supersteel blades that need fixing)

I'm interested in folks' experiences with the different wheels and how they use them.

Thanks!

Put these wheels on your wish list for 2023.

Ken

[tgbto]

Also a reminder that  the SG-250 benefits from being trued lightly but often, especially right out of the box, and after being trued it is somehow "extra coarse".

Having bought a bunch of stones early, maybe not for the same reasons as you, I find myself using the SG-250 most of the time :

- Only I and a few nerds can tell the edge has been polished with the SJ, most people find the edge beautiful after honing with the FVB with stock leather wheel and PA-70 compound
- The diamond stones work well with exotic steel, but their scratch pattern is not nearly as nice as the SG, plus I don't liek their feedback, and you have to be extra careful not to apply too much pressure. So don't expect it to replace a belt sander or bench grinder (which are more likely to let you reprofile a blade easily). You'll see in other threads that removing a lot of steel with the diamond stones is a lesson in patience.
- The SB is my go-to stone for HSS drill bits, but I don't do them often

Unless you have exotic steels with high various carbides, you may find like me that the SG does a better job. If something makes you want to try another stone when sharpening an "inexpensive kitchen knife", then there may be an issue with your technique. Remember also that the higher the angle of attack, the quicker the reprofiling. So you can begin at a high angle where you want to remove more material (edge trailing if you want to use a very high angle) and then gradually reduce it when you get closer to your target.

For the price of a Dx-250, you can easily get a small belt sander that will do quick work of your reprofiling if you're not a professional knife maker.

And I'll add: the FVB is by far the most game-changing purchase for my T8 yet.

Third edit: I see on your pick you have the belt sander I was thinking of. Why on earth would you want to reprofile a blade with the Tormek ?

[BradGE]

And I'll add: the FVB is by far the most game-changing purchase for my T8 yet.

Third edit: I see on your pick you have the belt sander I was thinking of. Why on earth would you want to reprofile a blade with the Tormek ?

Seconding tgbto... Skip the wheels purchases and get an FVB.  In terms of bang for buck it's the best aftermarket investment for Tormek knife sharpening IMHO.

[cbwx34]

Or make your own FVB....

https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=2635.0

[CeeDubb]

Thanks everyone.

I was eyeing the FVB for the past few weeks. I purchased it a few moments ago from Knife Grinders.

On a sad note... I read in another forum that Wootz (Vadim Kraichuk) recently passed away. I've been binge watching all of his Knife Grinder videos over the past few days.

Edit: Just read this post: https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=4873.0

[RichColvin]

I used the conventional grindstone wheels (SG-250, SB-250, and SJ-250) since 2003 when I first got my Tormek.  I have the diamond stones now, and find them quite good for certain activities, but I am glad I started on the traditional grindstones. 

   
• SG-250 - is a great, all-around stone and I use it often for re-sharpening my pocket knives.
• SJ-250 - is unparalleled in its ability to produce a mirror polish.
• SB-250 - longer life than the SG-250, but I'd opt for the DF-250.
• DF-250 - great for my lathe tools, especially the harder steels and carbides. 
• DC-250 - great for reshaping tools
• DE-250 - I use this for a final, smoother surface on tools needing such (e.g., certain drill bits and bench chisels)

That is my opinion, but I am not a professional sharpener.  Hope that helps.

[nevertakeadayoff]

I've been using the T4 with SG200 and SJ200 for 2 months.

I feel the coarse surface of the SG stone is very aggressive. Not sure what you're doing to get inconsistent or inefficient results.

Maybe you just need more practice? It took me some time to get the hang of

1. Keeping the blade level
2. Applying equal pressure (hard or light)
3. Lifting and turning the blade consistently everytime