Troubleshooting First Time T8 Knife Sharpening

[MartinC]

I am new Tormek user and have just finished setting a stock T-8, along with a Japanese Stone. I have also purchased the FVB, using the angle finding software from Knife Grinders (or will be) and have watched several videos on how to use the system.

I (currently) do not have a BESS tester, however I may look at getting one sooner than later, just to help quantify how I'm doing with mastering the system.

I have sharpened a mid-quality set of knives using, at least what I think, is a good protocol. For the first round, I did not have the FVB, so I honed freehand. The results will carve paper with no problems, and the wife is happy with what I have done. I suspect that I can do much, much better and I want to learn how to get the as sharp as possible with the setup that I have.

I have a cheap 40x digital microscope and have a few pictures that I would like to see if anyone can help me troubleshoot and make better. In looking at them, my first thought is I did not spend enough time with the course wheel to remove all the nicks. Does that sound reasonable.

Does anyone have pictures of a knife that was done with a similar system, just to help me understand what is possible?

Thanks

[RickKrung]

Martin,

First, welcome to the forum.  It sounds as though you are off to a good start.  Please do read up on as much of the content here regarding your question(s).  Spend a lot of time practicing with the basic, standard wheel and honing wheel. 

The singe best accessory that I have is the Kingmas 60x hand microscope.  Way more valuable than a BESS tester and possibly even more valuable than an FVB and app software.  You can set angles with the Anglemaster and/or use the black marker for matching angles between setups, but viewing the bevels and apex as I progress is critical, in my experience, and no magnifier but this one serves the purpose as well.  I examine the entire length of each side of every knife, often after each grinding wheel, or as I work with them, more so with the coarse ones, so I can see that I've removed all the nicks, etc.  It allows me to see the burrs as well as feel them. 

For angle control, you have the tools, you just need time practicing and developing the muscle memory.  I think you should watch Knife Grinder's videos and ignore nearly all the general crap on YT.  And you should definitely get and study KG's Deburring Book.

Rick

[tgbto]

It probably starts by defining to what you consider sharp enough. KG's excellent book shows that initial sharpness is not the main factor for edge retention, edge angle is, so long as it is honed properly.

So it boils down to two things :

A.  Deburring properly, and in my short experience, there is no magical solution. I haven't yet come across a hand microscope that is not flimsy, doens't run through batteries like crazy, doesn't strain my eyes, and works well on very thin sujis.
I use a combination of feeling for the burr/running the blade across the thumbnail to feel for nicks, and more recently a BESS tester which I agree is far from necessary. It is nice, no question, and gives a relative indication, but hair shaving is still very dependable, and WAY cheaper.

B. Setting the proper edge angle. Knowing that some of my knives will be excellent @12.5dps, and just ordinary @15dps, while some others won't stand being sharpened @12.5, for reasons well documented by Wootz (KG). Sometimes it's 18dps instead of 15. So you have to be quite precise in your measurements, and the AngleMaster won't help you as it usually doesn't measure edge angle except for knives with significant bevels, or very thin knives. The sharpie trick won't do either for setting the angle (though it will help once that is done, or if you just want to keep the factory angle). The excel spreadsheet by JVH has become the cornerstone of my grinding sessions, it is free and incredibly efficient if you are ready to invest a bit of time in understanding it and setting it up. I begin the session by a quick measurement of the wheels, and then everything is much quicker than even the sharpie trick.

Cheers,

Nick.

[cbwx34]

I am new Tormek user and have just finished setting a stock T-8, along with a Japanese Stone. I have also purchased the FVB, using the angle finding software from Knife Grinders (or will be) and have watched several videos on how to use the system.

I (currently) do not have a BESS tester, however I may look at getting one sooner than later, just to help quantify how I'm doing with mastering the system.

I have sharpened a mid-quality set of knives using, at least what I think, is a good protocol. For the first round, I did not have the FVB, so I honed freehand. The results will carve paper with no problems, and the wife is happy with what I have done. I suspect that I can do much, much better and I want to learn how to get the as sharp as possible with the setup that I have.

I have a cheap 40x digital microscope and have a few pictures that I would like to see if anyone can help me troubleshoot and make better. In looking at them, my first thought is I did not spend enough time with the course wheel to remove all the nicks. Does that sound reasonable.

Does anyone have pictures of a knife that was done with a similar system, just to help me understand what is possible?

Thanks

If the "wife is happy" you're doing fine.

I'm not sure what "nicks" you're referring to, if you mean the grind marks, i don't think it's a problem.  It looks like you honed the very edge a little more than the rest of the bevel, but that is often the method done to remove the burr.  My only thought in looking at your pics, is you could lower the angle a bit?  (Hard to tell for sure without more details, just looks like a relative narrow bevel).  I think mostly you just need practice.  Practice different angles, different finish levels (for example, you might find a knife sharpened on the stock wheel will work better in the kitchen vs. one polished on the SJ wheel), different deburring techniques, etc..   As your experience grows, you'll see the improvements in actual use.

[RichColvin]

Wootz (aka Dr. Vadim Kraichuk) wrote a great book that's worth reading on this topic:  Knife Deburring.  Also, his web site (http://www.knifegrinders.com.au/) is worth exploring for more on the science of and his experience with sharpening.


Or, for more general information, check the http://www.SharpeningHandbook.info web site.


Good luck,
Rich

[MartinC]

Thanks for the guidance!