New Tormek User Question

[meanpilot]

Good evening Gents, new user from Florida.  I bought the T4 about 6 months ago and had a few sessions with it and really am impressed with the quality of the system.  I've watch the beginner and advanced knife sharpening videos and know I have a long way to go before I master all the skills necessary but the fun is in trying. 

I made a newbie mistake and bought the SJ-200 Japanese Waterstone thinking it would overcome poor technique and get me to a sharper blade quicker.  It does do a great job and the mirror finish is spectacular but I know I'm missing something, meaning I don't think the blade is as sharp as it should be.  My routine includes setting the WM-200 for 14 deg for a Wustoff knife set and starting with the SG-200 conditioned to the fine setting.  After a few passes each side I change wheels to the SJ-200 and finish it off.  I manage a decent edge but it still doesn't seem as good as it should.  Recently I noticed that the SG-200 has a bit of a wobble and I'm already down to about 195mm diameter.  I know I have to work on consistent light, constant pressure on both sides but I have to address the SG-200 wobble first. 

So my question is, am I a ham fisting and totally doing things wrong or do I need to pay more attention to maintaining a square wheel.  If it's the latter then what is better to keep the wheel true the TT-50 or a flat 1000 grit diamond plate? How about cleaning the SJ-200 which seems to get black very quickly.

I appreciate any comments to help me through my beginner stages.

Thanks

Tom

[micha]

Hi Tom,
welcome to the forum.

I think you already have the right attitude. Learning to master the basics with the standard gear is essential. That, however, doesn't prevent us from experimenting with other gear and/or techniques.

Regarding the SJ-200, I think you should be aware of the possibly different diameters of the SG and the SJ stone. If your SG is slightly smaller, the SJ won't reach the very edge of the knife without a slight correction of the USB height. Do you use any of the Tormek calculators? That might be a good start.

The wobble in your wheels and the squareness of these are something you should take care of, but in this case not the reasons for your observations, I suppose.
For truing, I'd suggest the TT-50 for the SG and the diamond plate for the SJ (both for truing and cleaning.)

Mike

[Ken S]

Welcome to the forum, Tom.

You are off to a good start. The basic and advanced knife online classes are an essential learning aids. I have watched both several times and continue to learn more with each watching. I would also suggest watching the bushcraft class. While the technique is identical with the T4 and the T8, the bushcraft class is specifically oriented to the T4. One of the user questions explains and dispels the myth of the "thirty minute duty cycle". The only difference between the regular T4 and the bushcraft version is the color. The bushcraft green is target marketed for outdoors users.

Good grinding practice with any grinder, wet or dry, includes truing the wheel regularly. One of the most common beginner (and not so beginner) mistakes is the "my precious Tormek grinding wheel syndrome". I confess that I was one of its victims. It took me a long time to finally true my wheel. I finally realized that grinding wheels, like tires or brake parts on a vehicle are long term consumibles, designed to gradually be worn down and replaced. I learned to true my wheel very gradually with very shallow cuts. The first cut barely touches only the highest part of the wheel. I advance the cutter only a fraction of a microadjust number. once you master this process, you can go faster with deeper cuts if you wish. I happen to enjoy seeing the wheel gradually become true. Once you have a cut across the entirs width and circumference of the wheel, stop. The "one more for good measure" only wears your wheel.

Whenever I sense that something is not quite right, I make a very light test truing cut. More than once this is the problem. The out of true gremlin can be very sneaky.

The temptation to include using the 4000 grit wheel as a beginner is very strong. It is a polishing wheel, not a sharpening wheel. Master the SG and the leather honing wheel first. Once tyou raise a consistent burr, make a couple passes across the grinding wheel with very light pressure. This will lighten the scratch pattern, simulating a finer wheel and reduce the size of your burr.

If you are raising a good burr, I suspect your loss of peak sharpness may be caused by rounding over edge with the leather honing wheel. Skillful use of the leather honing wheel is an important skill to master. The online classes demonstrate this well. Focused practice helps. Many recommend using "cheap knives from thrift stores". I recommend acquiring a couple Victorinox Fibrox handle knives. They are well made with good steel and reasonably priced.

Enjoy the learning process. Since you live in the US, do not overlook Tormek Inc located in Illinois. Tormek created this branch to serve as its US agent. The Director is Stig Reitan. Stig is one of Tormek's top knife experts and a very experienced knife sharpening teacher. He also ran the support team in Sweden for many years. Both support in Sweden (support@tormek.se) and Tormek Inc are excellent resources.

Keep us posted.

Ken

[meanpilot]

Mike, Ken

Thank you both for taking time to give advice and encouragement.  I ordered the TT-50 and will go back and work on my technique once I get my SG-200 true. I'll keep you posted.

Tom

[Ken S]

Tom,

One of the benefits of this forum is our different backgrounds and variety of skills. These different points of view enrich the forum experience for all of us.
Enjoy.

Ken

[tgbto]

I would add that the point made in one of Tormek's instructional videos to always rotate the stone to the same position when mounting it for truing or grinding made a huge - and beneficial - change for me. I feel the stone going perfectly round now, I took the habit of putting it so the label text is top up.

Cheers,

Nick.

[Dutchman]

I would add that the point made in one of Tormek's instructional videos to always rotate the stone to the same position when mounting it for truing or grinding made a huge - and beneficial - change for me. I feel the stone going perfectly round now, I took the habit of putting it so the label text is top up.

Cheers,

Nick.

Then the shaft must also be set in the correct angular position.

[RickKrung]

Then the shaft must also be set in the correct angular position.

I put a punch mark on the end of the shaft for this purpose.  I used the letter "I" from a punch set, but a simple center punch dimple would work.


Rick

[Dutchman]

I made a notch on the shaft.

[Ken S]

Good thoughts. I have thought about doing similar things, but am starting to question if such accuracy with one wheel would possibly cause problems aligning other wheels (eg. an SB or SJ).

Ken

[RickKrung]

Good thoughts. I have thought about doing similar things, but am starting to question if such accuracy with one wheel would possibly cause problems aligning other wheels (eg. an SB or SJ).

Ken

I'm puzzled by your question, Ken.  First, are you referring to using the indicator mark on the shaft as the reference for lining up each wheel?  If so, the way it would work is true a wheel in a given position and when returning that wheel to that machine, make sure it is re-aligned in the same position, both the shaft and wheel.  (I went so far at one point as to put a mark on the bushing washer behind the wheel, but no longer bother trying to align that.)  It would work best if all wheels were aligned in the same manner, such as label upright and level so there would not be any confusion among them. 

It might get dicey if you used any of the wheels on different machines, however, as you probably would not have a way of ensuring that a wheel was "true" on anything but the machine it was trued on. 

If I've missed the point of your question, please clarify.

Rick

[Ken S]

Rick,
Truing multiple wheels oriented label up should be adequate.
Ken

[Artis]

Rick,
Truing multiple wheels oriented label up should be adequate.
Ken

Yes, it was on Tormek advanced knife video, they did explain why you always need to mount wheel with label facing same way.
No need to punch your shafts they are true and round.
Another reason to use diamond or cbn wheels, much smaller tolerances so don't have to worry which way label is facing.

[Pietje]

Hi!
I am also new in using a Tormek.
After the Grinding with the standartwheel check the blade with a cooonball for burr.
In my opinion it makes no sense to remove the burr with the japanese waterstone.
That will cost a lot of material of the stone.
After using the standartstone with 320 grid to reach the form you like, bring the standartstone to 1000grid. Use the Edding to mark the grind of the knife and adjust again your angle. Now doing only 2 or 3 moves per side and then flip around. This will reduce the burr. After this the letherwheel.
When the cottonbal goes smothly on the edge, than take the japnese waterstone to bring shine on the blade. Three or four moves per side shall bring you to your aim.
Do you get all of the work in one session? I´m asking, because the T4 can only work for 30 Minutes. How many time needs your T4 to cool down?

[Arthur]

My T-4 lets me ignore time.