How many T-8's do I need?

[ROC]

I'm enjoying my T8.

My results are excellent as confirmed by my BESS, microscope and overall visual. 
I use the angle software and calipers to set my machine up. 

However, I'm not happy with the time it takes to achieve a stellar edge.
Changing wheels with a single machine is time consuming. 
My wheels are of different diameter, so I need to also adjust my supports.

My question for the quantity knife sharpeners...........
What would be a set-up that would enhance a faster result?

Reasonably speaking anyway.
Until I get really busy, I'm not about to buy 3 more T8's and a 2 bench grinders.

If you had two T8's, one belt sander and one bench grinder for paper honing wheels, what would be your preferred wheel set-up for knives?

I am upgrading to CBN wheels.
80
400
700
1000

Still have my Japanese stone.
Large, leather strop.
Increasing the amount of knife jigs has helped speed things up. 

Money is a consideration, but, I know it'll cost a good amount of $$ to expand and speed my operations up.

Let me hear your opinions. 

Thanks in advance

Roland

[John S]

Roland,

I am not sure there is a legal limit on owning Tormek machines.

Personally I own a T8, Supergrind 2000, T4 and a 10" clone wet grinder.  On straight kitchen knife sharpening I use three 10" machines. I have three different grit stones on them. My T4 will either hold my very coarse wheel or become my felt wheel spinner.  I have not decided.

Additionally I have a 1x30 inch variable speed belt grinder (with eight progressively finer belts) as well as a paper wheel grinder/buffer. Both of those tools are about the cheapest models I could find.  I'll get better quality sander and paper wheel equipment if I find the return on investment will support them.

I started a spreadsheet to evaluate used supergrind machines i'm considering vs new machines. It needs refinement but it contains variables that force you to enter what you think a warranty is worth to you and shipping costs of the new and old machines. You also enter your perceived value of new vs an older machine.  I want to enter values of accessories that come with the used gear deals too. I like cold hard undisputable numbers. You'd be surprised how often the new machine is the better value at today's used machine prices.

I look for good used Tormek machines constantly but I find the price people are asking for the old tired green Tormeks exorbitant when you consider the need for upgrading so they are suitable for purpose, I can pay the same price for a T-8 custom and set it up as my needs dictate. The accuracy of the T-8 is so much greater than previous machines and clones. T-8 custom will be the next machine I purchase unless a cherry condition older model falls in my lap for cheap.

P M me and I can tell you more about my modus operandi.

John

[John_B]

When I got a new T-8 shipping was at no extra charge. This may be a way for seller to offer a break to buyer on a price controlled item.

I actually would like a second one but there are other things I also want.

[Ken S]

Roland,

Terry Beech, a Tormek legend, has done very well with one very old Tormek which he purchased used. Here is a link to a video about him:

https://youtu.be/8zQDmQ_n7wg

You can improve your time by carefully choosing your grinding wheels. Diamond and CBN wheels are constant diameter. I would avoid purchasing wheels which are not 250mm. "253mm wheels" are really ten inch, a needless complication. If your wheels are the same diameter, you should not need to adjust the height of the support bar.

[cbwx34]

Roland,

Terry Beech, a Tormek legend, has done very well with one very old Tormek which he purchased used. Here is a link to a video about him:

https://youtu.be/8zQDmQ_n7wg

...

Don't forget about SteveB...

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUy0dLEXa0nTMubaVUMAEKg

His setup is seen in some of his videos.   (Additional info on his website sharpeningmadeeasy.com)

[SharpenADullWitt]

I have a T2000, a T7, and a T2.  The T2 is what I use for knives.

One or two would work, but when you have different diameter wheels, YES, you have to adjust the supports to keep the angles.  That and my experience with the T2, make me want the diamond wheels.  Not sure which is better, the course diamond wheel, or SG wheel for rough shaping.

[RickKrung]

I have a T2000, a T7, and a T2.  The T2 is what I use for knives.

One or two would work, but when you have different diameter wheels, YES, you have to adjust the supports to keep the angles.  That and my experience with the T2, make me want the diamond wheels.  Not sure which is better, the course diamond wheel, or SG wheel for rough shaping.

I have one T8 and find it adequate.  I frequently sharpen up to six knifes at a time, generally at the same angle.  I do have the diamond wheels, but include two to three other sized wheels in my sharpening process:
1) 10" traditional grinding wheel, 1" wide, run in the water bath for rough shaping,
2) Tormek SJ wheel for deburring,
3) 10" rock hard felt wheel with 1µ diamond paste for deburring. 

The traditional grinding wheel works way better than the coarse diamond wheel (DC) for the fast metal removal/re-establishing blunted/rounded bevels with no risk of burning the steel.  I also have a "slow-speed" grinder and a variable speed Viel belt grinder but both can result in burning if not used carefully enough. 

For setting the angles, I use the "direct to the stone" method, which I find extremely fast and accurate.  I have very little trouble with maintaining the correct angles between diameters.  I use a rubber band stretched between the USB (either one) and the machine shaft and a sighting straight edge. 

This system works equally well when I use the SB and SG stone wheels, but of course, these require resetting the angle between every wheel, whereas the diamond wheels I don't have to change across them. 

Rick

[jeffs55]

I find it somewhat amusing about a "Bess" sharpness test. How many professional knife users require or have even heard of a Bess scale? If it makes you happy then I am all for it. I do things that only I understand but splitting hair sharp is for bragging rights among a few like minded individuals. Do you people use the knife you have sharpened to the highest level of Bess? What does one use of cutting a piece of rope or a cardboard box do to the sharpness? By the way, I would never use a knife to cut cardboard unless it was all I had. If it was all I had, then I wouldn't cut it! They make replaceable blade utility knives for that.

[Ken S]

Interesting thoughts, Jeff. I have used BESS for several years. I generally just use copy paper for day to day testing; however; BESS provides a standard measurement we can accurately share.

Ken

[ROC]

Thanks for the replies. 

For now, I'll order one more T8 in the custom version with the appropriate supports and swivel base.
Also a low speed bench grinder for some felt or paper wheels. 

I get it that many have used one T8 with success, but, my brain won't let me get away from the fact that it isn't efficient. 
Money no consideration, I'd get 4-5 T8's and two bench grinders set up so I could go from an 80 grit to diamond spray honing without changing wheels.
But, I"m a broke ass so I'll have to make do with 2-3 T8's and a solo bench grinder until then. 

[ROC]

Roland,

Terry Beech, a Tormek legend, has done very well with one very old Tormek which he purchased used. Here is a link to a video about him:

https://youtu.be/8zQDmQ_n7wg

You can improve your time by carefully choosing your grinding wheels. Diamond and CBN wheels are constant diameter. I would avoid purchasing wheels which are not 250mm. "253mm wheels" are really ten inch, a needless complication. If your wheels are the same diameter, you should not need to adjust the height of the support bar.

Yessir.  Good points

[jvh]

Hello,

most have already been answered, just another point of view...

I only have one machine and in this case it is best to have more jigs + water troughs (I don't like particles from coarse wheel on fine wheels).
Diamond/CBN wheel were already mentioned, unfortunately there is no equivalent for SJ-250, so USB height change will be still necessary. Good software for batch grinding is an advantage. 

I don't see the time needed to change a wheel as a big problem, because it always takes me the most time to center the knife in the jig. If you have more machines, you need to change the USB height on each of them instead when changing the angle or protrusion length (or move the adjusted USB if machines are the same).

Another question is, what "stellar edge" do you need to have and for what kind of knives? Because this has a huge impact on time consuming.

Personally, I consider BESS to be more of a marketing tool. Yes, it can really help in personal growth, but:
- Cutting speed and acceleration change the resulting value.
- Media tension changes the resulting value.
- The axial force during test changes the resulting value.
- You get information from one point (or a few points).
- You sharpen the knife and measure the BESS. When you repeat the measurement the next day you will get a value ca +20 g higher due to the oxidation of the edge.
- After a few cuts, the BESS will increase significantly.

I mean, it's easy to forget the real use. You can prepare the knife for the test (sharper angle is better), you get a nice value, but what does it say about edge retention, edge toughness? How to compare values with others when the result depends on individual techniques?

jvh

[John_B]

Interesting thoughts, Jeff. I have used BESS for several years. I generally just use copy paper for day to day testing; however; BESS provides a standard measurement we can accurately share.

Ken

Ken, Weekly I get store advertisements in the mail. The paper is quite a bit thinner than copy paper and it requires a sharper blade to cut. The other thing I use are thermal receipts from the grocery and drug stores. These also require a sharper edge than copy paper. My wife does not like my knives so I will test the couple she likes periodically.