Tormek Advanced knife online class coming very soon

[Stickan]

Hi,
Somewhat surprised reading that the angle master would not work when used on knives and especially standard kitchen knives.
This is my main method when I set new knives up, and after that, I use the marker method. After I set knives up at a wanted angle, and sharpened them, I used the CATRA Laser goniometer which showed that I achieved my goal.

Best,
Stig

[cbwx34]

Hi,
Somewhat surprised reading that the angle master would not work when used on knives and especially standard kitchen knives.
This is my main method when I set new knives up, and after that, I use the marker method. After I set knives up at a wanted angle, and sharpened them, I used the CATRA Laser goniometer which showed that I achieved my goal.

Best,
Stig

It's only been talked about many times since I've been here... not sure why you're "somewhat surprised".

In fact, as I typed this, I recalled having this conversation with you at least once....

https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=4236.0

... and I know I've brought it up before, for example...

https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=3777.0

... as have others.

The AngleMaster does not compensate for blade taper from spine to edge.  Works OK on kitchen knives, cause they're isn't that much taper... and the CATRA device isn't accurate enough to catch the difference.

[tgbto]

I didn't feel like bringing it up, but since it's up...

I think everything works when you set up a blade, even eyeballing it. In the videos they mostly use it as a rough estimate then end up checking with the sharpie. The kenjig or spreadsheet method is both more accurate and faster when you want a given angle. Which probably only matters if you change stones or want a controlled honing method.

[Stickan]

cbwx34,
Happy that you can use other ways of measurements that give you the result you need for your knives.

tgbto,
Most times when we do demos or sharpens knives on a tradeshow, we replicate the original edge mostly. Using the marker method is a great way to replicate most edges.

Best,
Stig

[tgbto]

Most times when we do demos or sharpens knives on a tradeshow, we replicate the original edge mostly. Using the marker method is a great way to replicate most edges.

It seems to me that's about the only thing that works when you want to replicate the edge from heel to tip.

As for the debate with the anglemaster, the concern I have is that it introduces a systematic error. Not a random one related to the precision of the measurement scale or the vernier or some roundings here and there, but one that is here because the taper angle of the blade is not taken into account by the process. Even with kitchen knives, something that will offset your angle each time by 2° is problematic when on the other hand one talks about "12° is a bit acute, 15 is OK and 20 is too much". Because then it translates to "with the angle master 10°  is a bit sharp, 12° is on the daring side of OK, and 15 is on the safe side of OK".

[Ken S]

When I purchased my first T7 in 2009, the only good online video instructions were those made by Jeff Farris, who was the US Tormek rep. Jeff was a very experienced, expert Tormek user. Among Jeff's teachers was Torgny Janssen, the inventor of the Tormek. Jeff's videos are well done and demonstrate what I consider traditional Tormek technique. They are designed to produce very sharp edges with essentially the equipment included in the original box. (Admittedly, for the knife video, one needs to purchase the SVM-45 knife jig.)

Fast forward, I have watched Stig skillfully sharpen chisels and knives using the same traditional Tormek technique used by Jeff almost twenty years ago. Black markers and Anglemasters have worked for many years.
Those earlier days were much simpler. The  SG-250 was the only Tormek wheel in the US.
Today we have more choices. The extra cost can be modest or quite expensive if one opts to start with a set of CBN or diamond wheels. As always, the Tormek is a versatile machine. For me, the Tormek is a sharpening machine for woodworking tools, which also works very well for knives. Knife people may feel differently.
Until knife designers finally make flat knives, the Anglesmaster will work more easily with more advanced tools like chisels and plane blades.   

Ken

[tgbto]

Just to be sure : I certainly don't pretend I can get my knives as sharp as most Tormek enthusiasts, let alone consummate professionals such as Jeff or Stig. 

It may just be a question of what we mean by "the anglemaster has worked for many years". If this tool is used for setting the edge angle, well at 15° it will set a 14° angle on knife A, a 13° angle on knife B, and a 13.5° angle on knife C, plus/minus a random error due to eyesight and tolerances. A method based on Dutchman's calculations and a stone-to-usb measurement may put a 15.3° angle, or a 14.7° angle, or a 14.9° angle, due to eyesight and tolerances.

The anglemaster may give you a very sharp knife, no doubt, just not one set at the angle you desire, even on very simple geometries such as a paring knife or a thick santoku. I bought a Tormek and am very happy with it because it allows me to increase my sharpening precision and consistency. I will continue to favor methods that help with that, which is the reason I'm so passionate about a statement that "in the end it doesn't matter".

Cheers,

Nick.

[cbwx34]

...
It may just be a question of what we mean by "the anglemaster has worked for many years". If this tool is used for setting the edge angle, well at 15° it will set a 14° angle on knife A, a 13° angle on knife B, and a 13.5° angle on knife C, plus/minus a random error due to eyesight and tolerances. A method based on Dutchman's calculations and a stone-to-usb measurement may put a 15.3° angle, or a 14.7° angle, or a 14.9° angle, due to eyesight and tolerances.
...

Problem is... on some knives the spine to edge taper can be 4-5° on each side.  So, imagine if you think you're putting a 15° edge on, and you're putting a 10-11° edge on it?  Sometimes it does matter...

I don't have a problem with the AngleMaster itself... the problem is, Tormek doesn't acknowledge this and just tell people how to deal with it.  Like I said in the earlier thread I referenced... when they had the opportunity, instead they swapped out the knife.  It's an obvious issue that is inexplicably ignored.