New Products From Knife Grinders

[BeSharp]

Looks like Wootz is carrying some new products:

1) a 250mm x 50mm rock-hard felt wheel with diamond emulsion. Looks to be a bargain price, as I was quoted $55 USD for shipping from the US to Canada by another supplier.
2) a device that, "DISCLAIMER: This is not a Tormek part, and use has not been evaluated by Tormek. If your Tormek machine fails for whatever reason, telling that you used it with the "RPM increaser" may void the warranty.

Still no kangaroo strops. Perhaps Wootz should also start raising kangaroos? (Ok, just kidding).

[RickKrung]

That is very interesting and a little bit exciting. I'm very glad to see it.  Nice that Wootz is providing a "package", particularly that it has a 12mm arbor bore.  The price converts to about $146 US at current exchange rates.  If this includes shipping from AU to the US, that is a good price. 

DuroFelt is the only place I've found that offers a 2" wide x 10" rock hard felt wheel, but it has a 1" arbor bore.  They do provide some bushings, but likely not an exact fit for 12mm and some futzing would be required.  $150 US and would have some shipping. 

Durofelt also offers a 1" wide x 10" rock hard felt wheel, for $71 US, which, for a more cost conscious person might be more attractive.  I am using a 1" wide x 10" dia. rock hard felt wheel with 1 micron diamond paste and really like it.  I no longer use the leather honing wheel for knives, but my first stage of honing is the SJ wheel.  It has a 1" arbor bore that I had to make an arbor bushing for and flange washers. 

If Knife Grinders' price includes shipping, it is a better deal on several levels - total cost, OD diameter, bore ID, and included diamond spray.

Rick

[cbwx34]

...
2) a device that, "DISCLAIMER: This is not a Tormek part, and use has not been evaluated by Tormek. If your Tormek machine fails for whatever reason, telling that you used it with the "RPM increaser" may void the warranty.
...

Ah... the "speed 'er up" device.

I'm still rockin' the same piece of Blue Painter's Tape that's in the picture!     (Has held up way better than I expected.  YMMV).

p.s.  Haven't tried this one (yet), but there's an interesting alternative to buying an entire felt wheel here.

[RickKrung]

...snip...
p.s.  Haven't tried this one (yet), but there's an interesting alternative to buying an entire felt wheel here.

Interesting alternative to a whole wheel.  Checked it out.  I do not mean to "trash" CB's idea, just a comparison and an "analysis". 

One would need a 36"x36" sheet of felt to fit around the 8" leather wheel "bare" wheel.  Even at the thinnest, that is $136, plus shipping (McMaster-Carr and click on "Hard Felt".  And then there would be the adhesive and "gluing process".  Seems like a toss up on cost/effort and one would only have an 8" honing wheel.  Only way I see it as being better on cost is to get the 12"x12" piece of felt and "piece" it together around the 8" wheel ($20 plus shipping) and that would leave the wheel with three "joints", if that is any sort of an issue (probably not). 

Still, it is a viable option, either way and allows one to proceed with a more "stock" honing system, one where the honing wheel stays on the machine and one doesn't have to switch out the grinding wheel to do the honing (although I always took off the grinding wheel to allow full access to the leather honing wheel, so that is moot, in my view). 

Rick

[cbwx34]

...
Only way I see it as being better on cost is to get the 12"x12" piece of felt and "piece" it together around the 8" wheel ($20 plus shipping) and that would leave the wheel with three "joints", if that is any sort of an issue (probably not). 
...

From reading it... that's what he did.

[RickKrung]

...
Only way I see it as being better on cost is to get the 12"x12" piece of felt and "piece" it together around the 8" wheel ($20 plus shipping) and that would leave the wheel with three "joints", if that is any sort of an issue (probably not). 
...

From reading it... that's what he did.

My Bad...   I didn't read that far in it...

Rick

[cbwx34]

My Bad...   I didn't read that far in it...

Rick

Cool that you both came to the same conclusion though... 

[Ken S]

Thoughts on the new KG felt wheel:

I think the 12mm bore makes sense. Actually, the KG felt wheels will work with any Tormek. As planned, it will work with the T7 or T8. It will also work with the T4 or T2. Since the felt wheel works without water, the water trough can be left off, allowing the 250mm wheel to clear the frame.
I wanted to verify that the threaded end of the shaft was long enough for a 50mm thick wheel with no indentation to be secured. The T4 shaft measured 55mm beyond the spacer washer. I was doubtful, until I measured the same shaft area on my T8. It measured the same 55mm length. I am quite sure Wootz would have checked the felt wheel on his T8. No more doubt; it will work with the T4 or T2.
Choosing a T4 as a second Tormek for the felt wheel has some advantages: The shaft on the T4 revolves at 120 RPM, as compared with 100 RPM with the T8. That's a 20% speed increase, with no possibility of voiding the warranty.

Ken

[Bryan D]

You can save yourself a lot of money by making your own comparable wheels using 3/4" MDF particle board or 3/4" Melamine board which is used in cabinet making. Use a circle cutter jig to rough cut to a diameter of 255 mm then glue pieces together to make whatever thickness you desire. Rotate rough wheel on a wood lathe at 400 to 600 rpm and, while rotating, use an angle grinder to smooth and reduce the diameter to 250 mm. Drill a 12 mm (31/64") hole in center for mounting on Tormek. Dress with whatever honing, cutting or polishing compound is needed. I use one of these wheels, which is 3/4" thick with a raised rounded edge, for sharpening fluted or hollow edge knives.  Some of my wheels are over 20 years old (used on 8" grinder running at 3,450 rpm) and they have not shown any appreciable wear. They hold the dressing compound perfectly. If you are using melamine, lightly grind away about 5 mm on the outside edge so there is no plastic that touches blades as you are honing. 

The nice thing about these wheels, other than low cost, is they run perfectly true at low or high speeds. The same cannot be said for many felt wheels.

[cbwx34]

You can save yourself a lot of money by making your own comparable wheels using 3/4" MDF particle board or 3/4" Melamine board which is used in cabinet making. Use a circle cutter jig to rough cut to a diameter of 255 mm then glue pieces together to make whatever thickness you desire. Rotate rough wheel on a wood lathe at 400 to 600 rpm and, while rotating, use an angle grinder to smooth and reduce the diameter to 250 mm. Drill a 12 mm (31/64") hole in center for mounting on Tormek. Dress with whatever honing, cutting or polishing compound is needed. I use one of these wheels, which is 3/4" thick with a raised rounded edge, for sharpening fluted or hollow edge knives.  Some of my wheels are over 20 years old (used on 8" grinder running at 3,450 rpm) and they have not shown any appreciable wear. They hold the dressing compound perfectly. If you are using melamine, lightly grind away about 5 mm on the outside edge so there is no plastic that touches blades as you are honing. 

The nice thing about these wheels, other than low cost, is they run perfectly true at low or high speeds. The same cannot be said for many felt wheels.

The argument to be made of course is that felt works better.    (And there is some validity to that).

I'm just not sure it needs to be made in a size only for the reason to fit on the Tormek?  Guess one question would be... how much they wear down... so you get some use/longevity that way?  Might be worth it, vs. having to remvoe and reglue strips on a wheel... depending on how long they last.

[cbwx34]

...
I wanted to verify that the threaded end of the shaft was long enough for a 50mm thick wheel with no indentation to be secured. The T4 shaft measured 55mm beyond the spacer washer. I was doubtful, until I measured the same shaft area on my T8. It measured the same 55mm length. I am quite sure Wootz would have checked the felt wheel on his T8. No more doubt; it will work with the T4 or T2.
...

Plus the fact that a (used) stone from a T-8 will fit...

[BeSharp]

You can save yourself a lot of money by making your own comparable wheels using 3/4" MDF particle board or 3/4" Melamine board which is used in cabinet making.

I've read somewhere that MDF could break off. So, one can make such wheels for their own use, but I think such possibility would discourage anyone from selling such items due to possible liabilitu.

In addition, Wootz has concluded that felt can hold diamond particles up to 10 microns. Might as well deal with one product which can carry a wide range of grits.

[Ken S]

...
I wanted to verify that the threaded end of the shaft was long enough for a 50mm thick wheel with no indentation to be secured. The T4 shaft measured 55mm beyond the spacer washer. I was doubtful, until I measured the same shaft area on my T8. It measured the same 55mm length. I am quite sure Wootz would have checked the felt wheel on his T8. No more doubt; it will work with the T4 or T2.
...

Plus the fact that a (used) stone from a T-8 will fit...

CB, You are correct that a wheel from a T8 worn to 200mm will fit the T4. (This was a forum debate a while back. The "will fit" proponents won the debate.
Out of curiosity, I measured the recess amounts in the 200 mm and 250.. wheels. The 250mm wheels are recessed 2mm more than the 200mm wheels. That and plenty of thread length explains why my SG-250 fits on my T8. This has no practical value, as the SG-250 only fits with the water trough removed.

Ken

[Ken S]

You can save yourself a lot of money by making your own comparable wheels using 3/4" MDF particle board or 3/4" Melamine board which is used in cabinet making.

I've read somewhere that MDF could break off. So, one can make such wheels for their own use, but I think such possibility would discourage anyone from selling such items due to possible liabilitu.

In addition, Wootz has concluded that felt can hold diamond particles up to 10 microns. Might as well deal with one product which can carry a wide range of grits.

Besharp,

I don't mean to be critical or take sides in this. However, I don't think we have enough information to dismiss MDF wheels. If Wootz says that felt wheels can hold diamond particles up to 10 microns, I believe him. Wootz is an established sharpener and sharpening researcher. I do not recall a comparable sharpener establishing a micron size range for MDF.
I also don't know how large a micron is needed for real world sharpening. Do we need 10 microns? I ask this only because I don't know.
I am not comfortable with your statement that you read somewhere that MDF could break off. Maybe I watch too many television court room dramas. That statement sounds like it would be here say evidence from an unidentified source. You may actually be correct; I would just like some more supporting evidence and a good source person.
I have never used MDF for sharpening. I don't know how it might compare with felt. Costwise, MDF is very inexpensive. I could see using both materials. We are in an exciting time of expanding scope for the Tormek.

Ken

[BeSharp]

I read it somewhere whilst doing my sharpening research. It might have been on Blade Forums. It might have been by the inventor of the Razor Sharp paper wheels. As I can't recall exactly, that's why I worded what I said very carefully  .   Otherwise I would have given the source.

That's also why I said it's probably  OK if someone makes it and uses it themselves. But all commercial  grinder wheels have a RPM rating. Has MDF ever been tested at high RPMs? Not that I'm aware of.

It's just my mechanical engineering training kicking in. Most people only ask, "will it work"?  We are trained to ask, "It might work, but how might it fail"?