Forum Policy for wanted to buy or sell topics

[Ken S]

We have had two topics posted this week wanting to directly sell Tormek products. My understanding has been that, since Tormek provides this forum for us with no charge or ads, we do not allow direct selling or buying posts. I try to be lenient with posts from beginners wanting advice on what to look for in comparing new or used. I want to see beginners get off to a good start. I realize this is somewhat iffy with our policy. If I need to, I will prohibit these posts, also.

Until Tormek advises me otherwise, no direct selling or wanting to buy posts will be allowed on this forum

Ken Schroeder
Moderator, Tormek Community Forum

[John_B]

Ken,
Do you know what the policy is on their Facebook page? All I see is a prohibition against over posting (spam).

[Ken S]

John,
I do not know. I don't remember ever visiting Tormek's home facebook. There is a Tormek users group on facebook.I am a member of this group, however, other than that, I have very little to do with facebook.
I will consult Tormek. Whatever Tormek decides is OK with me. I will post the result.
Ken

[jeffs55]

My two cents is that if it is a Tormek that is wanted or being sold, why not? They pay for it and it is still their product so it only further promotes their product.

[Ken S]

Jeff,

I think open discussion is healthy. I am considering your two cents and will add my two cents. Tormek is set up to sell its products through a network of authorized resellers (dealers). Part of the agreement is a policy of Minimum Advertised Prices. This helps maintain a level playing field among the dealers

Unlike some other Tormek or sharpening related platforms, we are not subjected  to annoying ads and pop ups. Nor are we asked to pay to join. Tormek provides this platform for us at no charge. My two cents is that we owe it to our host not to try to undermine the company and dealer network by making this a swap meet. Anyone wanting to purchase a Tormek can deal with an authorized reseller. The purpose of this forum is to help Tormek owners use their machines more effectively. We also help prospective Tormek purchasers answer questions.

Let those who wish to sell Tormek products list them elsewhere. Tormek products are listed on ebay every day. I have seen wanted to buy and for sale listings on the facebook Tormek users group. Doubtless there are other venues.
Among the ebay listings, I have seen numerous older generation jigs with no mention made that an improved version is available, often for the same or lower asking price. Ebay offers some buyer protection. I am sure Tormek would not want to do that.

To sum up my two cents, I would not want to jeopardize this forum so that a few members could save a few dollars. The forum's product is experienced based advice. I will be meeting with a Tormek representative next weekend. I will mention this and request an answer. If Tormek decides to allow this, which would surprise me, I will insist that buy and sell posts be done on a new, separate subforum with a different moderator.

Ken

[GeoTech]

I believe the forum should stay as it is, no equipment sales allowed.

[MikeK]

To add to the open discussion, and provide another point of reference, the Festool Owner's Group (FOG) is provided by Festool in what appears to be the same manner as the Tormek forum.  The FOG membership is free, there are no advertisements, and the only tracker is Google Analytics.  The FOG administrators are Festool employees and the Moderators are volunteers.  In addition to a wide variety of discussion areas, there is a "Classified" forum for members to sell or solicit Festool products, as well as a Dealers forum for authorized dealers to post.

If I was in the market to buy a used Festool item, I would be comfortable buying from an established member of the FOG as opposed to taking my chances with eBay or any other online market.  I prefer to buy the latest and greatest from my favorite dealer, but I understand circumstances are different for everyone and perhaps "gently used" or "well treated" is perfect for the budget and application.

To sum up my two cents, I would not want to jeopardize this forum so that a few members could save a few dollars. The forum's product is experienced based advice. I will be meeting with a Tormek representative next weekend. I will mention this and request an answer. If Tormek decides to allow this, which would surprise me, I will insist that buy and sell posts be done on a new, separate subforum with a different moderator.

The forum's product might be experienced advice, but the forum is the membership who comes here for the advice.  My first Tormek purchase last year was the T4.  I bought it, but had to go on a business trip and didn't have a chance to open the box.  While waiting in the airport lounge for my connecting flight, I found this forum and started reading up on Tormek.  I realized I really wanted the T8 and not the T4.

When I returned to Germany, I took the unopened T4 back to the dealer for a refund and bought the T8, plus a lot of accessories.  The same dealer previously sold me about €30K in Festool and SCM Minimax tools, so they didn't mind the exchange.  Had I opened the T4 and used it prior to finding this forum, I don't know if the dealer would have taken it back.  If not, I would not have purchased the T8 and would have learned to live with the T4 because I can't be bothered with eBay or other online sales. 

I have no doubt that in time I would want the T8, or which ever model was the newest, but would be reluctant to upgrade without some way of passing on the T4.  I didn't see the two questionable posts, so I don't know if these were intended to bypass established distributors for new equipment sales or to sell used equipment that was excess.

I hope your meeting next weekend goes well for the primary tasks and you phrase the discussion a little more neutral than "if you agree to this, find somewhere else to put it and find someone else to run it."  I have been in too many meetings where new topics are introduced in a similar way, or even "who else thinks this is a waste of time and money?"  The resulting votes are easy to anticipate.

[Ken S]

Mike,

Your points are well made. The forum is entitled to a more neutral, less opinion than I expressed here. When I present this to Tormek, I will set aside my opinion and be more neutral. What I posted is how I feel, perhaps expressed less diplomatically than I usually post.

I am only the second moderator of this forum. I do not remember any buy or sell ads when Jeff Farris was the moderator. I will  know more after next weekend.

Ken

[jeffs55]

It does not matter to me if there is ever a "buy or sell" spot on the forum. While there are indeed dealers that Tormek wants to protect none of them sell used equipment. Someone looking for used and likely less costly is not going to buy from a Tormek dealer anyway. I don't think it likely to endanger their sales if used equipment is sold. Furthermore noone except an authorized Tormek dealer is going to have access to brand new Tormek products on the wholesale level. So even if someone had a new in the box Tormek, they bought it at retail and are unlikely to resell at retail so once again not endangering retails sales. If any dealers wanted to sell their Tormek  products this forum would be the ideal place for them to do that.

[John_B]

Advanced Machinery does on occasion sell Demo and used Tormek gear along with new Tormek equipment.

[blackhawk]

I am an active member in two other forums that are hosted by the manufacturer,  just like this forum.  Both of those forums have a separate sub-forum for "For Sale/Wanted" items.  I have been a member of one of those forums for 10 years.

As a consumer, I would vote for having a for sale/wanted section.  But, as the manufacturer, I could definitely see the opposite point of view for not having one.  There are good arguments to be had for either/or.  I would definitely respect Tormek's decision either way.   I greatly appreciate Tormek providing this forum.

[Ken S]

As promised, I discussed the buy/sell issue with my Tormek contact this weekend. He wants to discuss it with Sweden and will get back to me. I  will post Tormek's decision when I get the answer.

Ken