Does Diamond stone get clogged with High carbon tool steel

[justonething]

Hi all
I'm interested in getting the coarse diamond stone, primarily because of my interest in using the multi-base jig in flattening of the back of chisel and plane irons. I read from Amazon that sharpening high carbon tool steel can clog up the wheel. Is that true? If that the case, would grinding HSS unclog it?
Cheers and Thanks
Paul.

[Stickan]

Hi,
I recommend the 600 grit wheel, DF-250, for flattening chisels and plane blades. The DC-250 is to coarse and would mean lots of extra work for you.
The Diamondwheels will not clough easily and if so, by using a rubber, you clean it out. SO far I have had no issues with clogging, I have not sharpened any much HSS steel but see no issue yet.

Sincerely,
Stig

[Jan]

Paul, if necessary the diamond wheel may be dressed to ensure that fresh diamonds are exposed. Dressing sticks are made from Aluminum oxide or Silicon carbide.

I have a soft white Aluminum oxide stick. Dressing sticks are inexpensive.

Jan

[Ken S]

My experience with the diamond wheels hasbeen limited, about half with high speel steel turning tools and half with Irwin Blue Chip chisels (carbon steel). Traditionally, grinders have also been used with milt steel as well as (heat treated) tool steel. I believe the clogging warning is intended to apply to mild steel rather than tool steel.

Like Stig, I have not experienced any difficulty with carbon steel chisels. I do not believe you would either, although I would feel better with more expert advice than mine.

Ken

[cbwx34]

Paul, if necessary the diamond wheel may be dressed to ensure that fresh diamonds are exposed. Dressing sticks are made from Aluminum oxide or Silicon carbide.

I have a soft white Aluminum oxide stick. Dressing sticks are inexpensive.

Jan

So, maybe this needs clarification... but are Tormek Diamond Wheels the type you can use a dressing stick on?  I didn't think it was the type of stone that can be "refreshed" like this... I thought basically they were only one layer.

In the Norton Catalog, they indicate dressing sticks are for vitrified and resin diamond wheels, but for "metal single layer", (which I think the Tormek wheel is?) they say no wheel dressing required. ( https://www.nortonabrasives.com/sga-common/files/document/catalog-nortonindustrial-7362-lr-bookmarked.pdf p.295).

I'd hate to see someone wear the diamond layer off their wheel trying to clean it this way... but I'm not sure if this can be done or not.

[Ken S]

Support may have more information on this tomorrow. Today, Epiphany, is a holiday in Sweden.

Ken

[Jan]

CB, Norton recommends to dress metal bond diamond wheels with a dressing stick the same grit size or one grit size coarser than the abrasive in the diamond wheel. 

In my understanding, even in the case that Tormek diamond wheels are MSL (metal single layer) diamond tools and no wheel dressing is required, we may condition it lightly with suitable dressing stick to remove loaded metal.

I agree with Ken that it would be good to have a guidance from Tormek.

Jan

[justonething]

Thank you for your replies, and it's good to know that clogging is not a problem and that there are ways to clean the stone.
What also interests me is the suggestion of using 600 grits to flatten the back of chisels and plane irons. When I flatten a plane iron/chisel by hand, I found I spent the most time on the lower grit diamond stones and thought that it would be the same with Tormek. A 600 grit stone would be more useful in normal sharpening to me. I wonder how long it would take to flatten a slightly pitted iron with pits that are in the order 0.1~0.3 mm deep with a 600 grit diamond stone?

[Ken S]

This topic, like many others, is one where I do not feel we have enough information to give good answers.

Are you flattening/sharpening these chisels and plane blades professionally? How many tools are involved? Do these tools have sentimental or collector's value for you? Will you be flattening backs on an ongoing basis?

My reply would be different depending on the answers to these questions.

Are you familiar with the David Charlesworth Ruler Trick? Essentially it means just flattening the edge of the back of a plane blade instead of the entire back. (an online search will explain it more fully) This does not apply to chisels.

We could (and would like to be) more helpful with more information

Ken

[justonething]

This topic, like many others, is one where I do not feel we have enough information to give good answers.

Are you flattening/sharpening these chisels and plane blades professionally? How many tools are involved? Do these tools have sentimental or collector's value for you? Will you be flattening backs on an ongoing basis?

My reply would be different depending on the answers to these questions.

Are you familiar with the David Charlesworth Ruler Trick? Essentially it means just flattening the edge of the back of a plane blade instead of the entire back. (an online search will explain it more fully) This does not apply to chisels.

We could (and would like to be) more helpful with more information

Ken

I am a weekend woodworker, and I have a desk job during the week. I teach hand tool woodworking from time to time, and it's my hobby to restore old planes and chisels. My sharpening setup up includes a variety of diamond plates and water stones, A Tormek T7 system two wheels, one SG and one 260G CBN stone, plus a honing wheel and other assessories. I have an extensive collection of hand planes, and chisels and I sharpen them regularly, I also do woodturning, so I have a need to sharpen turning chisels as well.

In regard to flattening of chisels and plane irons. I don't do it that often, I generally only do it once when I acquire a new item or when they have been worn down to the extent that requires re-flattening. I aim to flatten only last 20~25 mm of the back each time. At the moment, I may have about 20 to 30 items that could do with some further flattening.

I am aware of the David Charlesworth Ruler Trick, though not a fan of it, Sometimes its the only way if the alternative is to grind away too much material.

I hope I have answered all your questions. Now here is the question from my last post - how long it would take to flatten a slightly pitted iron with pits that are in the order 0.1~0.3 mm deep with a 600 grit diamond wheel?

regards
Paul.

[Ken S]

Paul,
Thank you for sharing your fascinating background information. You certainly do not fit my preconceived notion of the average poster with half a dozen chisels to flatten. (My standard advice for them would be a very limited amount of chisel backs to flatten could be patiently flattened with a glass plate and abrasive paper at much lower cost.) You, however, do seem a good candidate for a diamond wheel and flat grinding.

Your question deserves a good answer. Most of my very small collection of a dozen hand planes are century old Stanleys. Although very old, they have been well cared for. On further thought, I do have a Stanley jack plane (cost $16 US) which must have been stored in a barn or damp basement.The blade is pitted, although I was able to make a passable plane with it for initial rough work work. I purchased this plane 25 years ago. I will flatten the back using the DF-250 600 grit wheel.

My shop schedule is not very organized. I will post the result when done. (I will try for this coming weekend.) Hopefully other members will also have answers.

Ken

[Stickan]

Hi,
Following up a little here.
Never use a metal bond dressing stick on CBN or Diamond wheels. They are ok to use on bench grinder wheels, they do work on SG and Blackstones but are not precise as the TT-50. In general, they work on low-speed bench grinder wheels.
There are rubber cleaning sticks that can be used on diamond and CBN which works very good. I have tried a pencil rubber just for fun which also removed metal.
But I just want it to be 100% clear that there should not be used a metal bonded dressing stick!

Best,
Stig

[Jan]

Thanks for your response, Stig. The dressing sticks offered e.g. by Norton are not metal bond. The white dressing stick is made from soft bond alumina oxide. The question is if such a "soft" dressing sticks can be used to condition/refresh Tormek diamond wheels?

Jan

[Ken S]

Thanks, Stig.
I do not expect either diamond or CBN to last "forever". However, given the cost of these grinding wheels, it seems prudent to take measures to extend their life whenever practical. If a rubber eraser will do the job, I will use one until I am convinced that another product will do a better job.

Ken

[justonething]

Hi,
Following up a little here.
Never use a metal bond dressing stick on CBN or Diamond wheels. They are ok to use on bench grinder wheels, they do work on SG and Blackstones but are not precise as the TT-50. In general, they work on low-speed bench grinder wheels.
There are rubber cleaning sticks that can be used on diamond and CBN which works very good. I have tried a pencil rubber just for fun which also removed metal.
But I just want it to be 100% clear that there should not be used a metal bonded dressing stick!

Best,
Stig

Is this the one you are referring to?