nut is stuck?

[teejay58]

I've watched tons of videos of Wootz removing and changing wheels. He daintily graps the nut with 2 fingers, spins the wheel, and it's off. I *must* be doing this all wrong. When I put the wheel back on, I'm careful not to over tighten it. However, when I try to remove it, it requires a pipe wrench to grasp the nut. Today, even the pipe wrench is failing me. <--Noob. Can you guys tell me what I'm doing wrong? Do I need to grease the threads with something? Vaseline?

[micha]

Hi TJ,
I've had the same effect exactly once. It took me quite some time to get the nut loose again. Had to use a wrench, too. It worked only after applying a drop of oil and some very(!) careful smacks on the nut with a piece of wood and a rubber mallet.
Now I only grab the wheels (not the nut)  and spin them a bit, then the nut is loose.

I would however suggest to sufficiently tighten the nut when mounting a wheel. Otherwise it's locked by torque, thus being way tighter than by hand.
A drop of oil on the threads may help, but I think keeping the threads clean from any dirt is more important. Any thick grease in this place might even have an adverse effect of catching particles. A tiny wire brush might also help with cleaning the threads.

Wish you success in removing the wheel. 

[Dutchman]

Hold the honing wheel and turn the stone

[Ken S]

Welcome to the forum, Teejay.

The frozen EZYlock nut problem surfaces occasionally. Many of us, including me, have experienced it. Fortunately, or unfortunately, most of us experience it only a very few times, not enough to find a good fix.

I have two suspects. Both cases are curcumstantial and leave room for reasonable doubt.

Case one, our brains are wired culturally for right hand threads. "Righty, tighty; leftie,loosie". The EZYlock nut has direction arrows printed on it. This is a good idea, however, in my opinion, it is too subtle. I want something in my direct line of sight which requires a minimum of thinking. I placed a long strip of Scotch tape on the top of my Tormek and drew a large arrow on it. The arrow points in the loosen direction. I have found that I don't need the arrow long term. I believe it did seem to help develop my left hand thread brain path.

Case two is galling. I credit this thought to support from an email. Stainless steel prevents rust, but has a tendency to gall (seize). Lubrication can minimize this. I think we can make this even more effective by using a grease formulated as anti seize for stainless steel. Compounds make for the food industry should also work very well. A small tube should last longer than forever. Disclaimer: I have not actually tried this yet, as I have not experienced the frozen nut problem for several years.

It would be useful to definitively solve this problem.

Keep us posted.

Ken

[van]

Thoroughly clean the threads of both the shaft and the nut, every so often a splash of WD40 and solve the problem

[teejay58]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone. Hopefully I can get it loose today. I have some food grade silicone spray. Will try using this for lubricant if/when I get it off. I'm relieved to know that I'm not the only one with the problem! It would be nice if they made that nut thicker or easier to grip, eh? Nothing EZ about it! LOL

[John_B]

I always have loosened the nut by holding the grinding wheel and honing wheel and turning them in opposite directions. I have never found it necessary to use any tools for this. Once you get it loose I would suggest cleaning and lightly lubricating the threads and only finger tightening the nut as it self tightens when the machine is turned on.

[Ken S]

This reminds me of the problem we had with the pre 2019 version of the TT-50 chattering. We had infrequent posts about it. The first I remember was from Ionut, who also fixed the problem with small plastic electrical ties. Few of us experienced the problem, however, the problem was real. In the end, Tormek redesigned the TT-50, making it more secure.

The frozen EZYlock is very frustrating when it happens. It has happened to some very experienced Tormek users. It seems to happen a time or two and then disappear. Like the motor which fails to start once, one always wonders if it is lurking and may happen again.

Can the problem be user related? Possibly, however, I think operator error is too simple an answer. We must look further.

Can the issue be caused by stainless steel galling? I tried switching to the plastic EZYlock which came with my T4. It never froze, however, I notice the plastic EZYlock is wearing. I think with frequent use, the plastic nut will need to be replaced, not the ideal solution. Related: will some form of kubricant prevent galling? If so, should it be a particular lubricant?

If the freezing is related to the fit of the shaft, grinding wheel, and EZYlock nut, I would think it would be easier and more cost effective to make the correction on the nut, rather than the shaft or grinding wheel. Is the fit of the two threads too tight? (or too loose) If so, redesigning the nut with slightly looser clearance should solve the problem.

If the fit of the side of the wheel and the nut is too flat, machining some ridges should help.

I do not know the answer. I am sending this topic to support for comment. If any of you have suggestions, please also share them with support (support@tormek.se)

Let's solve this problem.

Ken

[jeffs55]

If the problem is that the nut and the shaft are of the same material and seek to become one by means of galling, then the solution is simple. Make one of the items from a different material. Since the shaft bears not only a lot of weight but must also revolve with that weight it seems to me that the nut should be of a different material. Bronze comes to mind as it seems to have a natural lubricity, it is even used as a bearing in lieu of ball bearings in some not to strenuous applications. So, a hardened bronze nut might be the answer. Further, as I have mentioned somewhere in the past. Tighten the nut LIGHTLY with a wrench and do not let the machine tighten it. Just snug it. My weedeater is noticeably harder to undo the string spool if I allow the inertia of the trimmer to tighten its locking nut. So much so that I have to resort to large crescent pliers. If I tighten LIGHTLY by hand, it can then be removed by hand. Shameless plug time. If you want the finest crescent pliers made, buy Knipex.  I do not pretend to be a metallurgist and you would think that Tormek has thought of this.

[Ken S]

Two items of note:

I remembered an Alan Holtham video about the EZYlock. Alan's Tormek videos are absolute must see for For Tormekers. Here is a link:

https://youtu.be/IX96a9WoAJE

Included in my search results were a couple forum topics from past years. Unfortunately, the lead poster was a guy named "Ken S". I was disappointed; I know as much as that guy. 

As expected, I received a prompt and informative reply from Stig. Stig was the head of support for many years, and has dealt with more frozen EZYlocks than any of us. Here is Stig's reply:

My experience and years at the support side of Tormek tells me that some users don't understand how the Ezy-lock works. I have even talked and helped users over the phones many times with the same result every time, it opened up.
I do have had one wheel that was very hard to open, I actually broke the pins in the honingwheel once  but with a hard distinct movement I could open it. I never had to use a wrench to open a Ezy-lock.
I don't know how many machines we have out there with the ezy-lock nuts but at least 11-12 years of them and upgrades too but the issue is very isolated and definitely not such an issue that  a re-design is needed.

I do not believe we have a major issue. We do have an annoying issue, and will keep working to solve it.

Ken

[Ken S]

I have given Stig's reply a lot of thought. I think he has the right solution. With the Tormek facing us with the grinding wheel on the right, hold the leather honing wheel firmly in place with the left hand. Exert as much force as need with the right hand pushing forward on the grinding wheel until the EZYlock loosens. Do not be afraid to use a lot of force. Keep the Channelocks and pipe wrench in another room, away from your Tormek.

Ken

[jeffs55]

I actually broke the pins in the honing wheel once Stig said that he broke the honing wheel. If he broke it then someone else is going to break it. Don't you think it would be better to turn the stone which is right next to the nut and has no pins to break? That is what I do. Oh yeah, I would never use Channel locks on a nut for two reasons. If the Channel locks have teeth on the jaws, they are most likely going to scratch up the nut. If the jaws are not teethy, then it is going to be hard to hold them so that they do not slip and round off the nut. The Knipex that I mentioned have a locking feature that turns the jaws into a sort of open end wrench but better. You can buy them either "toothed" or smooth jawed. Excellent for plumbing work with pretty chromed piping. I am not selling Knipex but I thought they were so amazing that I bought a pair. Since they have nothing to do with the Tormeks function I felt it safe to mention.

[Stickan]

Hi,
I think I need to comment on this. I did brake the pins but I did use the wrong technique. As I answered Ken, I could open it up after I broke the pins by using a faster anti-clock-wise move. When I broke them, I slowly applied more pressure instead of using power directly. After that, I have never had an issue opening a Ezy-lock nut. This is years ago and I was still pretty new at Tormek. Stronger possibly too...

Regards,
Stig

[Ken S]

Thanks for posting, Stig.

Just so that I am clear, are you recommending a quick turning movement instead of gradually applying pressure?

Ken

[Stickan]

Ken,
If it is really stuck, a quick movement is working when I do it. Keep in mind, It happened to me one time which really don't give any real proof of it.
One thing is for sure though, no tool should be needed.

Sincerely,
Stig