Diamond stones vs standard stones

[Sweitzy]

I have a few questions for all you tormek experts out there.
I just recently received my Tormek T8. I ordered the SB250 wheel and the Japanese water wheel (SJ250) with it. The SJ250 is on back order currently.
I have a few questions about what I should do for wheels. I thought that I had a good handle on it, but now that I'm using it, I'm not so sure.
Should I cancel the SJ250 and get one or two diamond wheels instead? One of the things that I'm doing is making the initial secondary bevels on knives that I have made and I'm finding that the SB250 still takes a long time to do this. Should I have been ordered a diamond wheels instead?
I thought I also saw a post somewhere here where Wootz said something about not using the SJ250 in favour of diamond wheels, but when I tried to look for it I was unable to find it.
I am also planning on opening a sharpening business to do knives, scissors, shears and such (I have ordered a hone and I will be taking training to do the beauty Shears). For this application which wheels would be best? 🤔
Thanks in advance.

[RichColvin]

Michael,

Consider these postings.

• Thoughts on the Diamond Wheels vs. Traditional Grindstones - https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=3805.0
• Tested a New Roughing Stone - https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=3962.0

Anyway, those are some opinions and options.

Kind regards,
Rich

[Sweitzy]

Thanks Rich

[RickKrung]

Sweitzy,

Here are some of my thoughts. 

1) I think you should not cancel your order for the SJ wheel, at least not in favor of ordering a diamond wheel. 

2) In order to put bevels on your made knives faster, I think you are better off setting up the kind of grinding stone Rich provided you the link for (first one, for a 10"x1" traditional grindstone).  You'll have to figure out how to mount it on the Tormek, but I think Ken provides some info on a supplier who is now selling bushings that you'd need. 

3) You may find that you want one or more of the diamond wheels in the future, but you can do everything you want with what you have (and have on order) and the above traditional grindstone set up on the Tormek and used with water. 

I have all of the above, including all of the diamond wheels, except my traditional grindstone is a Norton 3X 8" dia. x 1" wide stone.  I have found that when I need to re-establish a bevel on a severely dull knife, I reach for the traditional grindstone, used wet on the Tormek.  I've never sharpened a freshly made knife, so I can't speak to that, but my sense is the traditional stone would still be preferred. 

I often will then work through all three diamond stones, but I also still use the SB, SG and SJ stones, in that order.  I like the feel and sound of these latter stones over the diamond wheels.  I true and grade the SB stone coarse only and true and then grade the SG wheel fine only.  I use a 1000 grit diamond plate as the final grading on the SG stone.

If I want a more refined finish after either of the above combinations, I'll use the SJ stone.  I understand from Wootz that using the Tormek leather wheel/honing compound after the SJ stone robs the edge of some sharpness, so after the SJ, I strop with a SharpPad (Edge On Up stropping product no longer available) but I believe other methods of stropping would work as well or better.  If I don't use the SJ stone, I hone on the Tormek leather wheel, using an FVB similar to the one Wootz sells and an applet for setting the angle for controlled angle honing. 

I consistently get sub-200 BESS readings using either method.  I can do better if I take more time, but thus far I've not been driven to take it to the next level.  I have the equipment and supplies (paper wheels, half speed grinder, diamond pastes, etc.) but... I guess just not the interest or time. 

Another approach would be to use a belt sander.  I have a 1"x30" belt sander but do not use it for sharpening.  I want to get a variable speed Veil as it would have other uses in my metal and wood working. 

My 2¢

Rick

[Ken S]

Sweitzy,

If you are planning to open a sharpening business, I highly recommend that the first thing you order is Steve Bottorff's Sharpening School DVD. Steve had this professional DVD made as he was retiring after many years of running a busy sharpening business and teaching sharpening. Steve spent a day walking me through his class. I was already very familiar with his DVD. His DVD is like private tutoring. I have watched it many times, and always learn more from it. It is practical, "from the trenches" training. I consider it essential.

Ken

[Sweitzy]

Thanks guys.
Ken, I took your advice and I've ordered the Sharpeners school in a box set.

[Ken S]

Sweitzy,

You will not regret it. I originally purchased my T7 to sharpen chisels and planes. (still my first sharpening love). I drove to Hartville, Ohio one day, a six hour round trip, for a woodworking show. I planned to spend most of the day hanging around the Tormek demonstrator. The Tormek rep told me he was "a local sharpener" hired to cover the morning. I recognized him as Steve Bottorff and could not believe my good fortune. With the opportunity of working with a master, I became a knife sharpener that morning!

Steve and I have become good friends. I have learned so much from him. His Sharpening School DVD is a practical guide to sharpening. Steve has walked the walk and generously shared his journey.

Enjoy your DVD!

Ken

[wootz]

I can add very little to what have been said above by Rich, Rick and Ken.

First-time beveling of newly made knives, of all Tormek wheels, the fastest goes on their silicon carbide SB wheel; to keep it grinding fast, keep refreshing its grains with a #80 diamond plate as soon as you see its cutting ability slowing down.
(Obviously, it is not possible to refresh the SB with the Tormek grading stone, because both are made of the same material - silicon carbide)

Tormek SJ is the best of fine Japanese wheels I tried. We only do not recommend it for honing high wear resistant blades with high Vanadium content.

[Ken S]

Well done, Wootz! You may have solved a long time dilemma for me. I have owned an SB blackstone for nine years. I have never been able to get it to work well. It has always glazed quickly. Also, the stone grader has never worked well for me with the SB.

I have only kept the SB because sharpeners I know and respect have had better luck with it. I will dust it off and try it again. In the meantime, I will purchase an 80 grit diamond stone.

Thanks, again for the tip.

Ken

[RichColvin]

...
(Obviously, it is not possible to refresh the SB with the Tormek grading stone, because both are made of the same material - silicon carbide)

...

Thank you!  I never put that together.  Explains much.

Kind regards,
Rich